Group B: England, Iran, USA, Wales

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

6 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

This forum will contain both types of people. Those that concur with the notion that Gareth has achieved ‘the most with England since Alf Ramsay’ and those, like me, who think we could actually win the bloody thing if he just took the shackles off and let these very talented players just play.

 

You can think he's achieved alot with England *and* that we could be better though. They aren't mutually exclusive and it's very reductive to just in essence say there are simply "two camps."

[Dan LCFC]

It'll be, as ever, the first decent side England face and that'll be that.

[Ric Flair]

I don't think that performance tonight was tactical, there was no tangible game plan to play pragmatically and make sure we didn't lose at any costs. We were just extremely poor and in almost every area of the pitch, USA were significantly better than us.

 

Why that occurred is the question but its becoming all to frequent now under Southgate that he somehow manages the art of making us look very suspect defensively, weak in midfield and absolutely toothless in attack. The style of play resembles Brendan at his worst, possession for possessions sake where everything is played square, behind or with little impetus. What was disturbing to see tonight was hoor poor England were at pressing, USA were strong in that regard and most certainly didn't sit off England, we just had absolutely no ability to push the game up the pitch and create any space.

 

That was as bad a performance I've seen from England in a while and that includes some shocking defeats and drab results and displays that they've put in in the last 12+ months in that Nations League dog shit.

 

Thankfully we are still in the driving seat to win the group, but if we play as badly as we did tonight then we could be scrabbling around to still scrape through this group. It also doesn't bode well for what's to come but let's hope they can improve as the tournament progresses.

 

I don't like his favoured starting XI, the full backs bore the shit out of me and Mason Mount is just diabolical in an England shirt. It's sickening that Maddison is out as we are crying out for him in that role. How Phil Foden gets neglected too is enough to call time on Southgates tenure here, its an insult to players of his rare quality that are being wasted by a manager who will be lucky to manage at PL level for more than a few years after he does invariably move on. He's so dull and mediocre it's tedious.

 

Harry Kane looks so isolated in an England shirt too, where have I seen boring possession football with a forward barely getting a sniff and those around him not getting in behind the lines? Tonight it was clear we needed to mix it up after half time, there was absolutely zero point trying to play with width without trying to press, we should have got Saka, Sterling and Mount off for another striker and Foden and Grealish to take play the diamond and take the ball in tight areas centrally and expose them.

 

I want to see a big performance on Tuesday to show we have some gears to go through, I'd not fancy us against Ecuador in the last 16 at this rate put it that way.

[tom27111]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't think that performance tonight was tactical, there was no tangible game plan to play pragmatically and make sure we didn't lose at any costs. We were just extremely poor and in almost every area of the pitch, USA were significantly better than us.

 

Why that occurred is the question but its becoming all to frequent now under Southgate that he somehow manages the art of making us look very suspect defensively, weak in midfield and absolutely toothless in attack. The style of play resembles Brendan at his worst, possession for possessions sake where everything is played square, behind or with little impetus. What was disturbing to see tonight was hoor poor England were at pressing, USA were strong in that regard and most certainly didn't sit off England, we just had absolutely no ability to push the game up the pitch and create any space.

 

That was as bad a performance I've seen from England in a while and that includes some shocking defeats and drab results and displays that they've put in in the last 12+ months in that Nations League dog shit.

 

Thankfully we are still in the driving seat to win the group, but if we play as badly as we did tonight then we could be scrabbling around to still scrape through this group. It also doesn't bode well for what's to come but let's hope they can improve as the tournament progresses.

 

I don't like his favoured starting XI, the full backs bore the shit out of me and Mason Mount is just diabolical in an England shirt. It's sickening that Maddison is out as we are crying out for him in that role. How Phil Foden gets neglected too is enough to call time on Southgates tenure here, its an insult to players of his rare quality that are being wasted by a manager who will be lucky to manage at PL level for more than a few years after he does invariably move on. He's so dull and mediocre it's tedious.

 

Harry Kane looks so isolated in an England shirt too, where have I seen boring possession football with a forward barely getting a sniff and those around him not getting in behind the lines? Tonight it was clear we needed to mix it up after half time, there was absolutely zero point trying to play with width without trying to press, we should have got Saka, Sterling and Mount off for another striker and Foden and Grealish to take play the diamond and take the ball in tight areas centrally and expose them.

 

I want to see a big performance on Tuesday to show we have some gears to go through, I'd not fancy us against Ecuador in the last 16 at this rate put it that way.

 

Would be great if @StriderHiryu would do some of his tactical analysis on England.

 

I don't think Southgate would agree!

[Deeg67]

Also, Tyler Adams has become an elite box to box MF.  He's on the cusp of real stardom and Leeds is going to struggle to keep him unless 49ers accelerates their takeover and spends like Newcastle.  Dest and Turner were also pretty impressive.

 

Again, though, it really comes all for naught and Berhalter has to go for it against Iran.  Reyna and Aaronson must start but - because Berhalter is a soccer Southgate - they won't.

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Also, Tyler Adams has become an elite box to box MF.  He's on the cusp of real stardom and Leeds is going to struggle to keep him unless 49ers accelerates their takeover and spends like Newcastle.  Dest and Turner were also pretty impressive.

 

Again, though, it really comes all for naught and Berhalter has to go for it against Iran.  Reyna and Aaronson must start but - because Berhalter is a soccer Southgate - they won't.

Adams has a long way to go before he would be considered elite but he impressed me tonight. We absolutely schooled him at the King Power the other week though and to date he's not been that dominant in the PL but there's a good player in there.

 

USA have a nucleus of very good athletic young players, there's a cluster of international teams that seem more than capable of holding their own, Japan being another but just need that major tournament experience and belief to push forward.

[Corky]

43 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

Harry Maguire doesn't play for his club and he still gets picked 

[BlueSi13]

Spectacularly shit.  You can always rely on Southgate's England to make you question why you actually like Football.

 

Thankfully our thumping of Iran means that if we avoid a 4-0 defeat to Wales we'll make it through the group.

 

But **** me it's the same old story again and again.  We have so much talent and potential in this squad it's obscene but as others have said, the first organised country we play with historical pedigree we'll lose comfortably.

 

It's fundamentally why England fans have never been on-board with Southgate.  Not sure why the media has never cottoned on to this.  He hasn't delivered that marquee performance and result against a tournament favourite, despite having all the resources to do so.  

 

Southgate cost us a place in the 2018 Final and cost us the Euros last summer.  We have done well recently despite him, not because of him.

[Deeg67]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Adams has a long way to go before he would be considered elite but he impressed me tonight. We absolutely schooled him at the King Power the other week though and to date he's not been that dominant in the PL but there's a good player in there.

 

USA have a nucleus of very good athletic young players, there's a cluster of international teams that seem more than capable of holding their own, Japan being another but just need that major tournament experience and belief to push forward.

How much have you seen of him in the PL?  Because as good as Aaronson (and Rodrigo, I suppose) have been, Adams has unquestionably been Leeds' best player.  #1 in the PL in interceptions, #3 in tackles, top 10 in one-touch passes.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

If he is going to insist on mount then put foden on for saka or sterling, they both did the square root of f a tonight don't get why he persists with certain players for the whole match when it's obvious they're having stinkers. 

[Guest Col city fan]

1 minute ago, Corky said:

Harry Maguire doesn't play for his club and he still gets picked 

I’d take Maguire back at Leicester personally.

As slow as fook, but a colossus in the air.

I think he’s been massively scapegoated as being the worst player last season in a Utd side that were all over the place.

[Guest Col city fan]

3 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

Spectacularly shit.  You can always rely on Southgate's England to make you question why you actually like Football.

 

Thankfully our thumping of Iran means that if we avoid a 4-0 defeat to Wales we'll make it through the group.

 

But **** me it's the same old story again and again.  We have so much talent and potential in this squad it's obscene but as others have said, the first organised country we play with historical pedigree we'll lose comfortably.

 

It's fundamentally why England fans have never been on-board with Southgate.  Not sure why the media has never cottoned on to this.  He hasn't delivered that marquee performance and result against a tournament favourite, despite having all the resources to do so.  

 

Southgate cost us a place in the 2018 Final and cost us the Euros last summer.  We have done well recently despite him, not because of him.

Spot on chap.

[tom27111]

1 minute ago, BlueSi13 said:

Spectacularly shit.  You can always rely on Southgate's England to make you question why you actually like Football.

 

Thankfully our thumping of Iran means that if we avoid a 4-0 defeat to Wales we'll make it through the group.

 

But **** me it's the same old story again and again.  We have so much talent and potential in this squad it's obscene but as others have said, the first organised country we play with historical pedigree we'll lose comfortably.

 

It's fundamentally why England fans have never been on-board with Southgate.  Not sure why the media has never cottoned on to this.  He hasn't delivered that marquee performance and result against a tournament favourite, despite having all the resources to do so.  

 

Southgate cost us a place in the 2018 Final and cost us the Euros last summer.  We have done well recently despite him, not because of him.

I think Southgate has had an easier ride because of the way society is now.

 

Could you imagine if The Sun superimposed his face on a root vegetable?

 

Not allowed nowadays 

 

But seriously, I think political correctness has a tiny bit to do with it.

[BlueSi13]

2 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

If he is going to insist on mount then put foden on for saka or sterling, they both did the square root of f a tonight don't get why he persists with certain players for the whole match when it's obvious they're having stinkers. 

Over the past 12 months it's become crystal clear he has learnt absolutely nothing from what Mancini did to him last summer.  

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

How much have you seen of him in the PL?  Because as good as Aaronson (and Rodrigo, I suppose) have been, Adams has unquestionably been Leeds' best player.  #1 in the PL in interceptions, #3 in tackles, top 10 in one-touch passes.

Seen probably 3-4 Leeds games in full, including the 1 vs us where he was very quiet and then highlights. Leeds so far this season have not been a stable team at all, suppose we could say the same about us who have either been diabolical or much improved.

 

I'm certainly not seeing Kante type performances yet from Adams but as you say, if he does perform in the PL like Phillips did, he won't stay long. Leeds haven't the power to keep such players, even the 49ers pumping cash in might not make much of a difference. 

[BlueSi13]

2 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

I think Southgate has had an easier ride because of the way society is now.

 

Could you imagine if The Sun superimposed his face on a root vegetable?

 

Not allowed nowadays 

 

But seriously, I think political correctness has a tiny bit to do with it.

Totally agree about the easier ride.  He seems to have an endless supply of free passes he can use.  Not sure what that's all about.

 

To be fair he has also learnt to use and weaponise any online/social media abuse to deflect any negative (tOxiC) press he gets.  

 

Maybe the media don't want to be seen as being on the same side as the mouth-breathers on twitter.

[Deeg67]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Seen probably 3-4 Leeds games in full, including the 1 vs us where he was very quiet and then highlights. Leeds so far this season have not been a stable team at all, suppose we could say the same about us who have either been diabolical or much improved.

 

I'm certainly not seeing Kante type performances yet from Adams but as you say, if he does perform in the PL like Phillips did, he won't stay long. Leeds haven't the power to keep such players, even the 49ers pumping cash in might not make much of a difference. 

Leeds have not been stable, but Adams has.  He's been the one real constant they've had (apart from that red card debacle).  I mean, if on-form Kante is your bar for elite, sure - but Kante on-form is the best midfielder in the world.

 

Leeds is in an interesting place right now - underperforming their xG differential substantially but clearly vulnerable at the back.  If they manage to stabilize in the second half and finish solidly mid-table, they could go in interesting directions next season.  The new owners will want to pump in serious money, and if Marsch survives this season he has appeal to them as a potential media star in the States.  Also, Adams and Aaronson love him and their chances of keeping those two are definitely better if they back the manager.

[Ric Flair]

6 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Leeds have not been stable, but Adams has.  He's been the one real constant they've had (apart from that red card debacle).  I mean, if on-form Kante is your bar for elite, sure - but Kante on-form is the best midfielder in the world.

 

Leeds is in an interesting place right now - underperforming their xG differential substantially but clearly vulnerable at the back.  If they manage to stabilize in the second half and finish solidly mid-table, they could go in interesting directions next season.  The new owners will want to pump in serious money, and if Marsch survives this season he has appeal to them as a potential media star in the States.  Also, Adams and Aaronson love him and their chances of keeping those two are definitely better if they back the manager.

Sorry, what I meant by the Kante reference was the man was bullet proof on the rest of his team mates effecting his level of performance. I haven't noticed that with Adams, I might be being harsh but their implosions and defensive frailties and game management don't look to favourably on him either.

 

Leeds fall in to the sleeping giant like Everton, Villa, Newcastle etc. All have had huge money pumped in and are/will be lucky to escape FFP and yet only Newcastle right now have anything to show for their financial strength. The modern era in the PL, the chasing pack barely make a dent on anything. We are the outliers but never really increased our commercial revenue despite our extraordinary success. Without doing so, it's inevitable the spending can't continue.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

Looking forward to a 4 nil win on Tuesday. 🤔😂🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[Deeg67]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Sorry, what I meant by the Kante reference was the man was bullet proof on the rest of his team mates effecting his level of performance. I haven't noticed that with Adams, I might be being harsh but their implosions and defensive frailties and game management don't look to favourably on him either.

 

Leeds fall in to the sleeping giant like Everton, Villa, Newcastle etc. All have had huge money pumped in and are/will be lucky to escape FFP and yet only Newcastle right now have anything to show for their financial strength. The modern era in the PL, the chasing pack barely make a dent on anything. We are the outliers but never really increased our commercial revenue despite our extraordinary success. Without doing so, it's inevitable the spending can't continue.

FFP isn't the reason Villa and Everton are bottom-feeders though, dubious decision-making is.  Newcastle has been smarter about how they've spend their largesse, and brought in a better manager.

[RoboFox]

.

Edited 26 November 2022 by RoboFox

[CosbehFox]

Tyler Adams becoming elite box to box midfielder…despite not scoring or assisting so far this season 
 

He’s a combative midfielder who has an an engine and half but his game is severely restricted going forward 

Edited 25 November 2022 by CosbehFox

[tom27111]

6 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

You can’t just blame it on the manager. The players need to want it, and they didn’t get out of second gear tonight. Maybe he has a motivational problem, maybe not. But too much emphasis is put on the manager when patently the players aren’t doing the business. It was shit tonight and you can’t put the blame solely on Gareth Southgate.

 

Hmmmmm.

 

But it's OK to want Brendan out, because he's shit and our squad is too good to go down?

 

I get what you're saying, and do partly agree with it.

 

But let the players flourish. Don't scare them with your shit tactics and outlook.

 

 

Edited 25 November 2022 by tom27111

[Deeg67]

3 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Tyler Adams becoming elite box to box midfielder…despite not scoring or assisting so far this season 
 

He’s a combative midfielder who has an an engine and half but his game is severely restricted going forward 

Kante has 2 goals in 62 PL matches in the last 3 PL seasons (0 goals, 1 assist in 23 CL matches during that stretch).

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Deeg67 said:

Kante has 2 goals in 62 PL matches in the last 3 PL seasons (0 goals, 1 assist in 23 CL matches during that stretch).

Kante is not a box to box midfielder. Jude Bellingham is. 
 

Tyler Adams has scored five goals in 235 games of his entire career. 
 

Still NGolo Kante has 24 goals in 424 career games (which if we look at his PL career only is 13 goals from 262 games)