Group B: England, Iran, USA, Wales

[marbles]

Btw - US still unbeaten against England 

 

[Dan LCFC]

8 hours ago, Balj said:

Can't think of a Champions League contender who would want Southgate as manager

BATE Borisov possibly. Wouldn't hold my breath though.

[WigstonWanderer]

Only watched the 25 min highlights but even then nearly nodded off. Thought the US well deserved their point.

 

I assume Maddison is still injured? Or has Southgate just decided that he’s there in name only?

[Jordan]

Can some of you please let Gareth Southgate fail for once before you start pulling out the knives?

 

These first two games in Qatar were essentially England’s pre-World Cup friendlies thanks to the WC draw and the FIFA calendar.

 

It’s tournament football. Survive and advance.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Southgate is Mr Missionary, boring and predictable, nothing about the bloke at all. 
 

Should be going through though. 

[whoareyaaa]

He drilled out the attacking threat of the team with his comments about us conceding two against Iran.

 

Let's see how we fair against Wales but not as confident as I was after the Iran game. Foden should start

 

I was actually asleep by the 90th minute 

 

Plus now we haven't got the win we give Wales hope of getting something and our players will be under pressure which they don't seem to handle that well sometimes.

Edited 26 November 2022 by whoareyaaa

[winteriscoming]

Clinton Morrison on sky sports gave last night’s game 6.5/10. Was there another game on at the same time as England’s? 

[Muzzy_no7]

9 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

Woooooow.

 

Yet plays Stones and Bellingham in different positions to where they play for their club 

[Finnegan]

3 hours ago, Jordan said:

Can some of you please let Gareth Southgate fail for once before you start pulling out the knives?

 

I know I'm not the most neutral viewer ever and I love occasionally putting the boot in on England but for me he's been failing since he took the job. 

 

One thing that annoys me about football is that at times people get a little too simplistic when attributing blame, praise and responsibility. I've ranted a bunch of times, for example, about how managers get held completely responsible for transfers. Southgate seems to become both the victim but also the benefactor of this a lot. 

 

"He got to a major final!", "He got to the semis in Russia!" Well, no. England did. Collectively. And another way of looking at it is that the players were so good they got there despite him, not because of him and could have won those with good coaching. 

 

There is undoubtedly something Southgate has done well and it's similar to what Speed, Coleman and Page have done for Wales. He's turned it in to a club atmosphere, he's brought all the players around, got them all to buy in, they all get along well, they enjoy playing for England, there's good morale and this absolutely helps. No question. 

 

But to do it, Southgate has invented a core clique of trusted men that he won't move away from and that's to their detriment. 

 

But above all else, he just isn't a good tactician. He never has been. And "never" in his case is a decent amount of time, he isn't new to management and his career is largely uninspiring. 

 

Yesterday's result was completely predictable. The USA are hard working, organised, press well and are tough to break down so of course England were going to do fvck all. They have all the creativity of a Claude Puel side because that's the limitations of the manager. 

 

I find him similar to Roberto Martinez in many ways. He's been given an absolute golden generation. England are, I hate to admit this, on paper incredible. Spain are probably the only teams at the tournament that can boast maybe a better array of young attackers. Sure Germany have Musiala, Argentina have Martinez, Netherlands have Gakpo but England have an absolute raft of them and probably the 3 most creative barely get on the pitch. 

 

Both Southgate and Martinez have massively underwhelmed compared to the level of talent they have available, both should have won trophies by now with what they've got. But both have managed to maintain their reputations and hoodwink en masse because the squads they have are good enough to bulldoze most opponents despite them. 

 

Edited 26 November 2022 by Finnegan

[CosbehFox]

6 hours ago, filbertway said:

Reyna and Foden starting on the bench. Football is slowly dying due to an obsession with defending and preventing other teams from doing stuff. I hope it goes full cycle and we start seeing managers and players encouraged to try and score goals again.

Reyna been injured to be fair 

[J. James]

2 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Only watched the 25 min highlights but even then nearly nodded off. Thought the US well deserved their point.

 

I assume Maddison is still injured? Or has Southgate just decided that he’s there in name only?

Lol, come on, get serious, Southgate hasn't "just decided" anything- Madders will never get more than a few pointless minutes under under any circumstances with this useless fool.

[Lionator]

It’s so obvious that the teams who are actually having a go are going to do well at this World Cup. You can’t pass yourself to a World Cup, you need cutting edge attack, we have the players but not the manager or the balls. 

[Finnegan]

13 minutes ago, Lionator said:

It’s so obvious that the teams who are actually having a go are going to do well at this World Cup. You can’t pass yourself to a World Cup, you need cutting edge attack, we have the players but not the manager or the balls. 

 

Spain may very well be about to pass their way to a world cup. 

 

There's no one tactical style that can or can't win. You can have any approach, any footballing philosophy and make it work. 

 

The important part is that you have a clear vision. You understand how you intend to put the ball in the back of the opponent's net and how you intend to keep it out of yours. 

 

Southgate has never had much of a plan for the former, he's essentially hoping that England's defensive shape and coaching is enough to keep a clean sheet and then hoping that the individual brilliance of his forwards will go out and get a goal. The irony here being he refuses to play the forwards most likely to produce individual bits of magic. 

[gerblod]

10 hours ago, martyn said:

Tell you who gets away scot free when players are getting criticised after poor displays, Declan Rice.

 

He is a player rayed far higher than he should be due to the dearth of quality options in his pposition.

Yup. Partway through the game I was beginning to notice who was putting in a shift and who was having an impact. Sometimes it's difficult, if you haven't seen the team sheet, who's on the pitch. Also, how often the commentators mention players usually gives an idea of who's getting involved.

It took me a long time to identify Rice and Mount.

Slabhead had an exceptional game. Stones was busy - had to be. Trippier was also busy. As someone stated, both Saka and Bellingham had off nights, but they were getting stuck in. Kane always trys his very best. Sterling didn't achieve a lot, but he's a bit of a dilettante player - huffs and puffs and occasionally is in the right place at the right time. Shaw is England's most dependable player.

But Mount and Rice were largely invisible men last night. Apparently, United are after Rice - seems appropriate - an underperforming club wanting to spend loadsamoney on an overhyped player.

This team desperately needs Madders. Last night the introductions of Rashford and Grealish were met with enthusiasm - it seemed desperately so. But the Yanks weren't put out one bit. Madders has qualitiesthe rest of the squad lack - we know what they are, but Southgate has almost been dragooned by the media into including him. I can see him coming on at some late stage of a game when Southgate is desperate, but he needs to be on from the off.

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Spain may very well be about to pass their way to a world cup. 

 

There's no one tactical style that can or can't win. You can have any approach, any footballing philosophy and make it work. 

 

The important part is that you have a clear vision. You understand how you intend to put the ball in the back of the opponent's net and how you intend to keep it out of yours. 

 

Southgate has never had much of a plan for the former, he's essentially hoping that England's defensive shape and coaching is enough to keep a clean sheet and then hoping that the individual brilliance of his forwards will go out and get a goal. The irony here being he refuses to play the forwards most likely to produce individual bits of magic. 

I’ll pass judgement on Spain until they play better opposition but I wouldn’t say their game is pass heavy in the same way as England. Their passing is very productive. But apart from that I fully agree, not having Foden (who has won youth World Cup finals pretty much individually) on that field is criminal. 

[Lionator]

With one game to play then, I think england will beat wales and go through in first place and I fancy Iran to beat the USA if they go at them like they did wales. 

[worth_the_wait]

It's worth noting, that England rarely do that well in the group matches.   1982 was the only tournament in which they won all 3 group games.

 

I compiled what I think is an accurate/full list:

 

England World Cup (1st stage) group matches

1930 URUGUAY                           Did not compete in tournament
1934 ITALY                             Did not compete in tournament
1938 FRANCE                            Did not compete in tournament
1950 BRAZIL          W 1  D 0  L 2     Did not progress past group stage
1954 SWITZERLAND     W 1  D 1  L 0     Reached Quarter Finals
1958 SWEDEN          W 0  D 2  L 1     Did not progress past group stage, lost playoff match
1962 CHILE           W 1  D 1  L 1     Reached Quarter Finals
1966 ENGLAND         W 2  D 1  L 0     Winners
1970 MEXICO          W 2  D 0  L 1     Reached Quarter Finals
1974 WEST GERMANY                      Did not qualify for tournament
1978 ARGENTINA                         Did not qualify for tournament
1982 SPAIN           W 3  D 0  L 0     Reached 2nd round group stage
1986 MEXICO          W 1  D 1  L 1     Reached Quarter Finals
1990 ITALY           W 1  D 2  L 0     Reached Semi Finals
1994 U.S.A.                            Did not qualify for tournament
1998 FRANCE          W 2  D 0  L 1     Reached 2nd round
2002 S KOREA/JAPAN   W 1  D 2  L 0     Reached Quarter Finals
2006 GERMANY         W 2  D 1  L 0     Reached Quarter Finals
2010 SOUTH AFRICA    W 1  D 2  L 0     Reached 2nd round
2014 BRAZIL          W 0  D 1  L 2     Did not progress past group stage
2018 RUSSIA          W 2  D 0  L 1     Reached Semi Finals
2022 QATAR ...

 

 

[ARTY_FOX]

12 hours ago, Balj said:

Can't think of a Champions League contender who would want Southgate as manager

There isn't many in the championship let alone the champions league. 

[Foxdiamond]

40 minutes ago, gerblod said:

Yup. Partway through the game I was beginning to notice who was putting in a shift and who was having an impact. Sometimes it's difficult, if you haven't seen the team sheet, who's on the pitch. Also, how often the commentators mention players usually gives an idea of who's getting involved.

It took me a long time to identify Rice and Mount.

Slabhead had an exceptional game. Stones was busy - had to be. Trippier was also busy. As someone stated, both Saka and Bellingham had off nights, but they were getting stuck in. Kane always trys his very best. Sterling didn't achieve a lot, but he's a bit of a dilettante player - huffs and puffs and occasionally is in the right place at the right time. Shaw is England's most dependable player.

But Mount and Rice were largely invisible men last night. Apparently, United are after Rice - seems appropriate - an underperforming club wanting to spend loadsamoney on an overhyped player.

This team desperately needs Madders. Last night the introductions of Rashford and Grealish were met with enthusiasm - it seemed desperately so. But the Yanks weren't put out one bit. Madders has qualitiesthe rest of the squad lack - we know what they are, but Southgate has almost been dragooned by the media into including him. I can see him coming on at some late stage of a game when Southgate is desperate, but he needs to be on from the off.

Good description. Most of the time Sterling runs about like a little boy lost. I despair that Madders never be given a fair crack by Southgate. With my blue glasses on I wonder what Harvey Barnes could add. Mount does seem to get picked whatever. 

[ARTY_FOX]

4 hours ago, Jordan said:

Can some of you please let Gareth Southgate fail for once before you start pulling out the knives?

 

These first two games in Qatar were essentially England’s pre-World Cup friendlies thanks to the WC draw and the FIFA calendar.

 

It’s tournament football. Survive and advance.

He has failed. He failed the second he tightened the chains again. Our best chance to win anything with this lot and he's doing everything possible to ensure we don't  

[ARTY_FOX]

His post match press conference is really worrying. 

[ithuriel]

Why are people so shocked we were terrible going into this competition and had a great starting game against Iran but have quickly settled back into the Southgate malaise, we should get through the group stage but we will not win this.

[Legend_in_blue]

 

 

[ithuriel]

3 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

 

He lays on more BS than many politicians, you can understand why he has the job 

[The Bear]

He's a pragmatic, defensive, results first manager. Always has been which is why he was a crap club manager.