Fans in attendance

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

12 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

There will be plenty of people that have a good time, I’d probably have a great time in North Korea, but you can’t deny that proportionately we are likely to see more issues here than we would in other countries.

 

I booked time off to go out there but I’m off to Gran Canaria instead. Too expensive to be drinking muddy water in a £150 a night tent and getting my hands chopped off for being who I am. Not for me.

While the hands chopped off bit probably isn't a helpful addition to this debate, I get your gist completely.

And I couldn't agree more that it being possible to have a good time is hardly proof positive of a good place. Plenty of people have great times in Moscow and Budapest, for example.

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

7 hours ago, K1FOX said:

I’ve seen lots of videos of fans having a great time in Qatar, it’s just the media have chosen their narrative for the tournament and will be sure to stick to it, only showing what fits said

I know right! It's exactly the same with Ancient Rome. All you ever hear about is gladiators being forced to fight to the death and people being eaten by lions. But loads of ordinary Romans had a great time watching it. Do historians focus on that? Of course not, because they've chosen their narrative.

 

Edited 20 November 2022 by Manley Farrington-Brown

[grobyfox1990]

7 hours ago, K1FOX said:

Is it the world that doesn’t like it though? Or is it certain European countries? Important to remember there are 32 nations from all different continents taking part all with their own laws and cultures and way of doing things.

 

I’ve seen lots of videos of fans having a great time in Qatar, it’s just the media have chosen their narrative for the tournament and will be sure to stick to it, only showing what fits said

 

Exactly. Look at the scenes on the day of the euro 2021 final across the country. That kind of animal behaviour is unacceptable in many parts of the world.

Its great we are calling out Qatar’s backward behaviour but it means nothing  when we are feeding the engine (everyone on this thread will watch matches) and allowing huge flows of investment into our country.

Also I wish we would focus more moral ramblings on Saudi, we supply them with arms and they have killed 100k’s in Yemen 

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

5 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Also I wish we would focus more moral ramblings on Saudi, we supply them with arms

What's this 'we?' Speak for yourself. I can confidently state that I have never sold arms to anyone from Saudi Arabia.

 

Also, moral 'ramblings?' That massively trivialises what is an important issue.

 

And yes, of course more attention should be paid to Saudi Arabia, but this bit of the forum is about the world cup in Qatar!

[hackenbacker]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

none of which is currently hosting the world cup, your continued strawmanning of every conversation is boring.

NO they may not be hosting but they are participating!

 

what is boring is the continued misinformation and astonishing claims that are posted on this forum from people who think they know what is going on based on the information they obtain from third parties who have a vested interest to promote the information. in case you don't know sensationalism sells newspapers and organizations like Ammesty etc reply on private funding for survival. So far in these forums i have Qatar read that  in Qatar women have no rights, homosexuals are bashed and killed, Saudi and the UAE are better destinations the Qatar (have you ever been to Saudi.. well have a number of times) and even more astonishing claims comparing Qatar to  Nazi Germany and to Russia killing of there citizens with polonium. This is a shark feeing frenzy from people who are so inward looking that they probably couldn't even identify where Qatar is on a map. Please before you post complete misinformation DYOR become informed what really goes on in the world around you not just what you read or see on TV. Look i am not defending Qatar. I have lived here for 6 years and i know it is far from perfect but there is no way it is anything like what some people describe on this forum. Rant over. You won't hear from me again on this topic  the football starts today. I have wasted too much time trying to counter arguments from narrowminded people.  BTW i hope these people will reemerge in another 4 years when the WC moves to North America. ....2 days ago Texas executed their 15th death row prisoner this year.   

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

5 minutes ago, hackenbacker said:

You won't hear from me again on this topic

🙏

[K1FOX]

29 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

I know right! It's exactly the same with Ancient Rome. All you ever hear about is gladiators being forced to fight to the death and people being eaten by lions. But loads of ordinary Romans had a great time watching it. Do historians focus on that? Of course not, because they've chosen their narrative.

 

Just summarise for me your actual issues with Qatar? 

[Lionator]

21 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

What's this 'we?' Speak for yourself. I can confidently state that I have never sold arms to anyone from Saudi Arabia.

 

Also, moral 'ramblings?' That massively trivialises what is an important issue.

 

And yes, of course more attention should be paid to Saudi Arabia, but this bit of the forum is about the world cup in Qatar!

I’m pretty sure that if you pay tax in the UK then your money has been used to build weapons that land on innocent Yemeni children. 

[K1FOX]

56 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

There will be plenty of people that have a good time, I’d probably have a great time in North Korea, but you can’t deny that proportionately we are likely to see more issues here than we would in other countries.

 

I booked time off to go out there but I’m off to Gran Canaria instead. Too expensive to be drinking muddy water in a £150 a night tent and getting my hands chopped off for being who I am. Not for me.

If you go to a country where they don’t legally and culturally accept public displays of affections then you refrain from doing so. Pretty simple and if you get caught you pay the price whatever that is. Nothing to do with being homosexual and they’ve explained that it’s the same for heterosexuals.

 

As for accommodation I’m sure in every World Cup there’s some kind of logistical issue, just because there’s so many people to accommodate, difference here is all the media’s energy is focused on highlighting issues that they’re not showing people the positives. 
 

Part of me thinks the issue at hand here is that it’s a World Cup in a Muslim country, and less to do with human rights.

[CosbehFox]

5 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

If you go to a country where they don’t legally and culturally accept public displays of affections then you refrain from doing so. Pretty simple and if you get caught you pay the price whatever that is. Nothing to do with being homosexual and they’ve explained that it’s the same for heterosexuals.

 

As for accommodation I’m sure in every World Cup there’s some kind of logistical issue, just because there’s so many people to accommodate, difference here is all the media’s energy is focused on highlighting issues that they’re not showing people the positives. 
 

Part of me thinks the issue at hand here is that it’s a World Cup in a Muslim country, and less to do with human rights.

It isn’t. 
 

If the tournament was played in Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia etc, they wouldn’t have been anywhere near the same outcry. 
 

The reality is that Qatar along with other nations within the Middle East have deplorable societal systems. 

Edited 20 November 2022 by CosbehFox

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

8 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

38 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

I know right! It's exactly the same with Ancient Rome. All you ever hear about is gladiators being forced to fight to the death and people being eaten by lions. But loads of ordinary Romans had a great time watching it. Do historians focus on that? Of course not, because they've chosen their narrative.

 

Expand  

Just summarise for me your actual issues with Qatar? 

Just summarise for me the relevance of any opinions I have about Qatar to the post of mine you replied to by asking that I summarise for you my actual issues with Qatar?

[hackenbacker]

8 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

Just summarise for me your actual issues with Qatar? 

Just read The Sun or the Daily Mail .. his opinions are  almost verbatim 

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, hackenbacker said:

Just read The Sun or the Daily Mail .. his opinions are  almost verbatim 

Naa his opinion will be formed off the well researched likes of the Guardian, the Athletic, Associated Press and Ammestry International. 
 

This isn’t an ignorant ‘Ingerlund’ type opinion to object on this one 

[hackenbacker]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Egypt,

you must be kidding you probably picked one of the 10 worse countries in the world for human rights. 

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, hackenbacker said:

you must be kidding you probably picked one of the 10 worse countries in the world for human rights. 

The world view wouldn’t have been as outraged, am I wrong? 
 

It’s just hosted COP 27 with the entire world travelling to it and watching it. No one objected to its hosting 

Edited 20 November 2022 by CosbehFox

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

4 minutes ago, hackenbacker said:

Just read The Sun or the Daily Mail .. his opinions are  almost verbatim 

😂😘

[hackenbacker]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

likes of the Guardian, the Athletic, Associated Press and Ammestry International. 

Yeah the Guardian who approaches the various embassies in Qatar and asks them how many foreigners from your country dies between 2013 and 2019. Well they say this many do you have their cause of death the Guardian asks no says the embassies just that they died. Oh well says the Guardian lets equate all their deaths to working on the stadiums. You have just confirmed my previous post. Again DYOR before posting inaccurate info based on thirds parties. And Amnesty well the more sensationalism they publish the more funding they get. Lets work this out 6 years x 365 days is 2190 days 6500/2190 is 2.96 workers per day. Do you really think that nearly 3 workers per day are going to day on these sites when they are run by multinational construction firms such as Hyundai, Leadlease etc who have their headquarters in western countries. 

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

While the hands chopped off bit probably isn't a helpful addition to this debate, I get your gist completely.

And I couldn't agree more that it being possible to have a good time is hardly proof positive of a good place. Plenty of people have great times in Moscow and Budapest, for example.

Well that’s the reality unfortunately isn’t it.

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

1 minute ago, hackenbacker said:

Yeah the Guardian who approaches the various embassies in Qatar and asks them how many foreigners from your country dies between 2013 and 2019. Well they say this many do you have their cause of death the Guardian asks no says the embassies just that they died. Oh well says the Guardian lets equate all their deaths to working on the stadiums. You have just confirmed my previous post. Again DYOR before posting inaccurate info based on thirds parties. And Amnesty well the more sensationalism they publish the more funding they get. Lets work this out 6 years x 365 days is 2190 days 6500/2190 is 2.96 workers per day. Do you really think that nearly 3 workers per day are going to day on these sites when they are run by multinational construction firms such as Hyundai, Leadlease etc who have their headquarters in western countries. 

You said we wouldn't hear from you again on this topic.

[VLC86]

18 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

If you go to a country where they don’t legally and culturally accept public displays of affections then you refrain from doing so. Pretty simple and if you get caught you pay the price whatever that is. Nothing to do with being homosexual and they’ve explained that it’s the same for heterosexuals.

 

As for accommodation I’m sure in every World Cup there’s some kind of logistical issue, just because there’s so many people to accommodate, difference here is all the media’s energy is focused on highlighting issues that they’re not showing people the positives. 
 

Part of me thinks the issue at hand here is that it’s a World Cup in a Muslim country, and less to do with human rights.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the sort of person to walk round in public holding hands but it goes further than that there unfortunately.

 

And yep you are right to a small degree re all countries having logistical issues however non to the extent of Qatar. It’s the size of Manchester and will have over a million people it needs to accommodate. I had issues in Ukraine when the accomodation I booked increased 10 fold in price but it was easy to find somewhere else. The options here were a £400 a night cruise ship or a tent with no air con or running water for £150 a night. Shambolic.

[CosbehFox]

10 minutes ago, hackenbacker said:

Yeah the Guardian who approaches the various embassies in Qatar and asks them how many foreigners from your country dies between 2013 and 2019. Well they say this many do you have their cause of death the Guardian asks no says the embassies just that they died. Oh well says the Guardian lets equate all their deaths to working on the stadiums. You have just confirmed my previous post. Again DYOR before posting inaccurate info based on thirds parties. And Amnesty well the more sensationalism they publish the more funding they get. Lets work this out 6 years x 365 days is 2190 days 6500/2190 is 2.96 workers per day. Do you really think that nearly 3 workers per day are going to day on these sites when they are run by multinational construction firms such as Hyundai, Leadlease etc who have their headquarters in western countries. 

Naa, I can pick, choose and self criticise articles last you mentioned. You seemed to concentrate a lot that on statistical figures of deaths but there’s no denial it’s ran like slavery or was until FIFA squeezed them. Can you confirm that only 20% of the country’s population have citizenship and therefore full

rights? 

 

However, I listened to four podcasts over the last week with the Guardian where they interviewed a variety of foreign nations whom worked for the likes of Al Jazeera and poor guys like Dr Naser Mohammad, the only Qatari person to ever come out as openly gay. 
 

These are all first hand sources telling their stories. I’m not stupid 
 

 

Edited 20 November 2022 by CosbehFox

[K1FOX]

34 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

Just summarise for me the relevance of any opinions I have about Qatar to the post of mine you replied to by asking that I summarise for you my actual issues with Qatar?

It was general question off the back of your sarcastic response. Logistically the World Cup shouldn’t have gone to Qatar but other than that I’d just like to know what your exact reasons for being so against it are?

[Sol thewall Bamba]

6 hours ago, tom27111 said:

 

My problem isn't with Qatar.

 

It's a sovereign nation in it's own right. 

 

They can implement whatever laws they like. Although CLEARLY wrong. 

 

My problem is with FIFA. 

 

We know they were bribed for it.

 

Why else would they put themselves in this situation?

 

I've read this evening that Brazil had a blanket ban on alcohol in stadia, because of crowd trouble. FIFA told them if they wanted the World Cup, that ban would have to be overturned. And it was non-negotiable. 

 

All about money. Why is a state that murders journalists allowed to run a Premier League club too? 

 

💰💰💰

Yeah this. 

 

It's easy to say "yeah well you just clearly don't like the country and it's people/religion" or whatever. 

 

I'd have the same feelings about any country that clearly bribed FIFA to get the tournament in the first place, killed 6500 migrant workers who they kept as basically slave labour and can barely facilitate the tournament after having a decade to prepare for it. And that's ignoring that fact they're playing it in the winter. 

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

What's this 'we?' Speak for yourself. I can confidently state that I have never sold arms to anyone from Saudi Arabia.

 

Also, moral 'ramblings?' That massively trivialises what is an important issue.

 

And yes, of course more attention should be paid to Saudi Arabia, but this bit of the forum is about the world cup in Qatar!

If you are a resident taxpayer in a country that supplies arms to Saudi, yes you have.

 

I believe they are moral ramblings, you can ramble as much as you want on a lcfc football forum but you are and will continue to contribute to the revenue metrics of this World Cup, so your moral ramblings are reduced to a empty stream of aimless rambles through a rambling megaphone at yourself as fifa and it’s partners collect your money 

 

Wrong again, this part of the forum is actually about ‘fans in attendance’ at the football World Cup. 

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

3 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

It was general question off the back of your sarcastic response. Logistically the World Cup shouldn’t have gone to Qatar but other than that I’d just like to know what your exact reasons for being so against it are?

Well, it should be apparent from my posts that most of them are actually discussing apparent holes in other people's arguments rather than directly criticising either Qatar or the decision to hold the world cup there.

 

But you're right, I don't think the tournament should be there.

Why, you ask? Ok, off the top of my head I can list the dubious ('allegedly,' 'possibly' of course) financial shenanigans in the bidding process, the to-all-intents-and-purposes modern slavery inherent in the migrant worker system, the environmental impact of needing to build all the stadiums from scratch, the fact that it looks like the facilities for fans aren't quite ready even though the tournament is about to start, the high-handed disregard for agreements that were made, and the fact that it is both at the wrong time of year and still too hot.