Fans in attendance

[RoboFox]

12 hours ago, Lcfc098 said:

 

 

FFS, why didn't Alex say so earlier? We've all spent so much energy being fvcked off about this shit tournament and all of the "dodgy things" which totally could've been prevented had he just spoken up before. 

 

I can enjoy it now. 

 

Cheers Alex! 

 

 

[K1FOX]

Looks like a good time if you like a beer.

[westernpark]

1 minute ago, K1FOX said:

As others have previously mentioned the migrant worker death numbers are seriously flawed by all accounts. Correct there’s issues with working conditions but don’t all countries have problems? Russia? Brazil? England ffs? 

So what’s an acceptable number of deaths? How many do you think it’s been exaggerated by? If it’s been exaggerated by 5000, 1500 okay? 
I am confident in this country that our health and safety laws mean we would not account to even 1% of the deaths would occur in Qatar. Issues, is a loaded word too. Surely an issue is something like only getting a 30 minute break instead of the 45 minute planned, rather than having passport confiscated by employer and being boarded in conditions that can literally fry you to death.

[Mickyblueeyes]

8 minutes ago, westernpark said:

So what’s an acceptable number of deaths? How many do you think it’s been exaggerated by? If it’s been exaggerated by 5000, 1500 okay? 
I am confident in this country that our health and safety laws mean we would not account to even 1% of the deaths would occur in Qatar. Issues, is a loaded word too. Surely an issue is something like only getting a 30 minute break instead of the 45 minute planned, rather than having passport confiscated by employer and being boarded in conditions that can literally fry you to death.

Hold on mate. Where do you think fast fashion comes from ?  If it doesnt happen IN this country that doesnt mean poor laws do not directly benefit this country and its citizens. 

 

The England shirt that Kane & Co will proudly wear today. Made under UK employment laws ? 

 

The textile industry is struggling in this country because of the cost of the workforce (some quite clearly try to avoid that and get caught in our own city). The country and a large percentage of its citizens benefit from that. 

 

You can be as confident as you want on the conditions here but that doesnt mean the UK and its citizen do not significantly benefit from poor worker conditions. All we have done is outsourced our shitiness. 

 

[westernpark]

3 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Hold on mate. Where do you think fast fashion comes from ?  If it doesnt happen IN this country that doesnt mean poor laws do not directly benefit this country and its citizens. 

 

The England shirt that Kane & Co will proudly wear today. Made under UK employment laws ? 

 

The textile industry is struggling in this country because of the cost of the workforce (some quite clearly try to avoid that and get caught in our own city). The country and a large percentage of its citizens benefit from that. 

 

You can be as confident as you want on the conditions here but that doesnt mean the UK and its citizen do not significantly benefit from poor worker conditions. All we have done is outsourced our shitiness. 

 

I will reply properly once I have time, as it’s a good response. But that’s capitalism in a nutshell, and I was referring to building regulations. Our consumer habits in the west are also the cause of this World Cup being allowed to happen in Qatar!

[K1FOX]

Here’s another view of fans who are actually there and are even staying in the cheapest accommodation that there’s supposedly an issue with. 
 

 

[K1FOX]

9 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Hold on mate. Where do you think fast fashion comes from ?  If it doesnt happen IN this country that doesnt mean poor laws do not directly benefit this country and its citizens. 

 

The England shirt that Kane & Co will proudly wear today. Made under UK employment laws ? 

 

The textile industry is struggling in this country because of the cost of the workforce (some quite clearly try to avoid that and get caught in our own city). The country and a large percentage of its citizens benefit from that. 

 

You can be as confident as you want on the conditions here but that doesnt mean the UK and its citizen do not significantly benefit from poor worker conditions. All we have done is outsourced our shitiness. 

 

Exactly this. It’s the hypocrisy of it all. We can do what we like but you can’t.

[grobyfox1990]

45 minutes ago, westernpark said:

So what’s an acceptable number of deaths? How many do you think it’s been exaggerated by? If it’s been exaggerated by 5000, 1500 okay? 
I am confident in this country that our health and safety laws mean we would not account to even 1% of the deaths would occur in Qatar. Issues, is a loaded word too. Surely an issue is something like only getting a 30 minute break instead of the 45 minute planned, rather than having passport confiscated by employer and being boarded in conditions that can literally fry you to death.

Haha i'm sorry and please don't take this as a personal dig but that is way off the mark. We in the West won't get our hands dirty because we can export the problem, it doesn't mean we aren't very very dirty. We will be responsible for 10,000's of deaths in the workplace every year, you will have products in your house which people have died for. Same with climate, our emissions data will look very good, because we dump the problem on others.

 

edit - apologies just seen mickeyblueeyes reply above. Sorry to repeat

Edited 21 November 2022 by grobyfox1990

[leicsmac]

31 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Haha i'm sorry and please don't take this as a personal dig but that is way off the mark. We in the West won't get our hands dirty because we can export the problem, it doesn't mean we aren't very very dirty. We will be responsible for 10,000's of deaths in the workplace every year, you will have products in your house which people have died for. Same with climate, our emissions data will look very good, because we dump the problem on others.

 

edit - apologies just seen mickeyblueeyes reply above. Sorry to repeat

...which is why anyone with a vested interest in actually solving the problem is calling for the richer nations to fund the transition of poorer ones to cleaner energy rather than them relying on high-emission sources and thus "outsourcing".

 

Not everyone is short-sighted on the matter.

[westernpark]

55 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Haha i'm sorry and please don't take this as a personal dig but that is way off the mark. We in the West won't get our hands dirty because we can export the problem, it doesn't mean we aren't very very dirty. We will be responsible for 10,000's of deaths in the workplace every year, you will have products in your house which people have died for. Same with climate, our emissions data will look very good, because we dump the problem on others.

 

edit - apologies just seen mickeyblueeyes reply above. Sorry to repeat

Your response is not valid to my point, which is my fault because I meant health and safety regarding construction. I was only trying to compare ourselves to Qatar, making the point that there would not have been even a percent of the deaths in Qatar in this country, of workers building the stadiums. I totally agree with what you’re saying regarding consumerism in the West. It is important we don’t push a west vs rest of the world narrative too(not what you’re doing), because the semantics become colonialist. 

[westernpark]

1 hour ago, K1FOX said:

Exactly this. It’s the hypocrisy of it all. We can do what we like but you can’t.

It’s not hypocrisy. I’m sorry I disagreed with you, but I was referring specifically to how we would not have seen the same number of deaths in the construction of stadiums. Enjoy the football

[Fear Of The Fox]

Does anyone know if this lady got arrested? If not, obviously the local authorities have agreed not to intervene. 

[K1FOX]

50 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

Does anyone know if this lady got arrested? If not, obviously the local authorities have agreed not to intervene. 

This was in London on euro final day.

[K1FOX]

What a game what an atmosphere. That’s why the World Cup needs to go to the Arab world as well. Maybe Qatar was the wrong choice but that has well and truly kicked things off.

[Scotch]

8 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

What a game what an atmosphere. That’s why the World Cup needs to go to the Arab world as well. Maybe Qatar was the wrong choice but that has well and truly kicked things off.

Might be because the had 88k people in a 80k seater stadium...

[CosbehFox]

Pre Covid, I don’t think the Qatari rulers would  have anticipated anything much worse than their own team looking awful in the opening game and the country they broke complete diplomatic ties with beating a world power two days later. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

22 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Pre Covid, I don’t think the Qatari rulers would  have anticipated anything much worse than their own team looking awful in the opening game and the country they broke complete diplomatic ties with beating a world power two days later. 

Really ? 
 

He (the Emir of Qatar was waving the Saudi flag during the game. The countries (alongside the UAE made amends some time ago), 

 

https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Eng/status/1595015535292747778?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1595015535292747778|twgr^54a76f4cbc57d83a331410612b0e239688ebb62c|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-1350767671103384132.ampproject.net%2F2211042305000%2Fframe.html

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Really ? 
 

He (the Emir of Qatar was waving the Saudi flag during the game. The countries (alongside the UAE made amends some time ago), 

 

https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Eng/status/1595015535292747778?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1595015535292747778|twgr^54a76f4cbc57d83a331410612b0e239688ebb62c|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-1350767671103384132.ampproject.net%2F2211042305000%2Fframe.html

I did say ‘pre covid’ …

[Mickyblueeyes]

7 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I did say ‘pre covid’ …

Yes, I saw that, I just thought you may have enjoyed seeing them so close now given the pre-covid worry

[fuchsntf]

On 21/11/2022 at 12:37, westernpark said:

So what’s an acceptable number of deaths? How many do you think it’s been exaggerated by? If it’s been exaggerated by 5000, 1500 okay? 
I am confident in this country that our health and safety laws mean we would not account to even 1% of the deaths would occur in Qatar. Issues, is a loaded word too. Surely an issue is something like only getting a 30 minute break instead of the 45 minute planned, rather than having passport confiscated by employer and being boarded in conditions that can literally fry you to death.

Sweat shops around Europe…have they stopped,gone underground totally gone underground. No reporting..?

 

oh hold on.!.slave-workers,working across Europe in horrible conditions,and abuse for massive well known Companies..Where it comes to a head when 5-11 die,

but,do we see changes have they changed across the board..France,Germany,Holland …EUROPE!, and I still stay gobsmacked.

Mexican migrant workers in USA..

Do you know how many industrial divers,die around the world,or on all type of workers die,on large major projects.Or down the atrocious diamond/ore mines

throughout the world..I was an ex-eng.contractor,I saw the misery of the poorer nations workers,and it’s still going on,nothing has changed…

Some Chinese projects have slowly improved their conditions,but not local African,Asian,S.American Govts projects or industries…

Qater is just a small flea in a massive sesspit of

Abused workforces conditions ,from the developing countries..

But also backed from major western companies…

 

Too many know-all know-nothing do-gooders,have let themselves be taken in,by the middle-class whiteys in the media chasing just another story..

Its right that Qaters “other problems” have been highlighted & showcased ,but they are not anymore guilty than MOST,yes MOST countries are ,some playing in the Wcup…

Do we need to cherry-pick agendas to satisfy our own souls…

 

or is it the numbers that worry people..2-3 people,10-20 people, 50-100 is just as bad as 2k-Xxxk of people..

 Sometimes I can hate my species on hypocrocy alone..

Edited 23 November 2022 by fuchsntf

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

Pre Covid, I don’t think the Qatari rulers would  have anticipated anything much worse than their own team looking awful in the opening game and the country they broke complete diplomatic ties with beating a world power two days later. 

Just like all nations around the world share that convenience of ties

look at the scoring at a Eurovision Song Contest, or when something starts

Smoking USA-UK,France-Germany will start holding hands..

[westernpark]

7 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

Sweat shops around Europe…have they stopped,gone underground totally gone underground. No reporting..?

 

oh hold on.!.slave-workers,working across Europe in horrible conditions,and abuse for massive well known Companies..Where it comes to a head when 5-11 die,

but,do we see changes have they changed across the board..France,Germany,Holland …EUROPE!, and I still stay gobsmacked.

Mexican migrant workers in USA..

Do you know how many industrial divers,die around the world,or on all type of workers die,on large major projects.Or down the atrocious diamond/ore mines

throughout the world..I was an ex-eng.contractor,I saw the misery of the poorer nations workers,and it’s still going on,nothing has changed…

Some Chinese projects have slowly improved their conditions,but not local African,Asian,S.American Govts projects or industries…

Qater is just a small flea in a massive sesspit of

Abused workforces conditions ,from the developing countries..

But also backed from major western companies…

 

Too many know-all know-nothing do-gooders,have let themselves be taken in,by the middle-class whiteys in the media chasing just another story..

Its right that Qaters “other problems” have been highlighted & showcased ,but they are not anymore guilty than MOST,yes MOST countries are ,some playing in the Wcup…

Do we need to cherry-pick agendas to satisfy our own souls…

 

or is it the numbers that worry people..2-3 people,10-20 people, 50-100 is just as bad as 2k-Xxxk of people..

 Sometimes I can hate my species on hypocrocy alone..

This is totally irrelevant as per my other response. I was simply referring to the fact we would not have seen 6500 deaths in this country whilst the stadiums were being built. 
For everyone who a virtuously disagreed with how my statement was perceived, I agree, and that is the blame of capitalism through to consumerism in the Western world. However, onto the World Cup, clearly we would not have had the same impact that Qatar has had on the lives of migrant workers and other groups. I stand by the notion that we as a country have always had better conditions for our workers during construction projects. As a postgrad in architectural/urban planning history, the building of our Gothic cathedrals which isn’t a specialist for me, but nonetheless did not see this many deaths. Only notable injuries such as William of Sens whilst observing the rebuilding of Canterbury Cathedral, who I believed fell from a great height are noted. There should be no doubt that FIFA are responsible for the deaths and maybe it’s a good, well not quite allegory, but reflection of the wests general consumerism, in to the World Cup. As our(through de facto sponsoring by Western companies)product(World Cup) is enjoyed whilst we sit in pubs and our homes eating and drinking to the tune of football. 

[fuchsntf]

12 hours ago, westernpark said:

This is totally irrelevant as per my other response. I was simply referring to the fact we would not have seen 6500 deaths in this country whilst the stadiums were being built. 
For everyone who a virtuously disagreed with how my statement was perceived, I agree, and that is the blame of capitalism through to consumerism in the Western world. However, onto the World Cup, clearly we would not have had the same impact that Qatar has had on the lives of migrant workers and other groups. I stand by the notion that we as a country have always had better conditions for our workers during construction projects. As a postgrad in architectural/urban planning history, the building of our Gothic cathedrals which isn’t a specialist for me, but nonetheless did not see this many deaths. Only notable injuries such as William of Sens whilst observing the rebuilding of Canterbury Cathedral, who I believed fell from a great height are noted. There should be no doubt that FIFA are responsible for the deaths and maybe it’s a good, well not quite allegory, but reflection of the wests general consumerism, in to the World Cup. As our(through de facto sponsoring by Western companies)product(World Cup) is enjoyed whilst we sit in pubs and our homes eating and drinking to the tune of football. 

Fair dues..

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Fans struggling to get in/ get there?

[FoxesDeb]

2 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Fans struggling to get in/ get there?

Yeah I think so, they mentioned earlier there's a lot of traffic and queues outside, then there's the issue with the flights from Dubai into Doha, something to do with visas...