Is anyone genuinely going to boycott?

[FoxesDeb]

9 minutes ago, shade said:

can I address this issue of why there aren't openly gay footballers, and it's a genuine answer, not a flippant joke. homosexual men are attracted to men, footballers share changing rooms with other footballers and walk around with their majestic penises (penii?) hanging out. it creates a problem, both parties would feel uncomfortable, would you have females walking around in the changing rooms with naked men?

 

The narrative is pushed by the agenda pushers that footballers don't come out because of society, when really it's for their own, and their teammates feelings of ease.

As a straight woman, I'd just like to point out that a man's penis is probably the least attractive part of him. Most men look ok until they take their clothes off, not the other way around, despite what most of you think 

[CosbehFox]

3 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

Brilliant. What a great multicultural place. How many of this million have an issue in Qatar? 

I would say the 2.1 million of the population which don’t have full citizenship face some difficulty in their general day to day life. 
 

After all a country can be predominantly Muslim but not have the need to have laws which contravene human rights. 

[K1FOX]

13 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

And why does that bother you? I can’t say it affects me one tiny bit. And you did say take over. There’s like one openly gay professional footballer in the entire world.  Zero opening LGBTQ managers, zero LGBTQ owners. Zero representation at board or governing body level. I’m a a straight man, I don’t have “an agenda” but I genuinely can’t fathom why some “rainbows” would offend anyone. To me they represent a positive movement towards better representation and equality. What is it exactly that makes you feel uncomfortable about the campaigns? Why do they bother you? I’m genuinely interested to know why and I thank you for discussing this. 

Great of you to take snippets of points. 
 

Why are we so desperate to make sports people come out as gay? Maybe there just aren’t as many people within sports who are gay as we think? Ever thought of that? The endless campaigns in a country which is so tolerant are tiresome and have no place in football in my opinion.

[leicsmac]

This discussion has become rather circular.

 

Though we might say that for a lot of FT discourse.

[K1FOX]

10 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I would say the 2.1 million of the population which don’t have full citizenship face some difficulty in their general day to day life. 
 

After all a country can be predominantly Muslim but not have the need to have laws which contravene human rights. 

But again I ask who are we to decide their laws need changing? 
 

Which laws contravene human rights btw? 

Edited 26 November 2022 by K1FOX

[westernpark]

1 hour ago, hackenbacker said:

talking of examples "One in five LGBT people (21 per cent) have experienced a hate crime or incident due to their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months" YouGov poll of 5000 in UK. I can guarantee that even though homosexuality here is outlawed in law one in five LGBT people have NOT experienced a hate crime or incident due to their sexual orientation here AND before you come up with a smart answer such as the laws drive LGBT people underground as i have said in a previous post obviously effeminate (males) or non-effeminate (female) persons are common sights in public in Qatar. The difference between the UK and Qatar (ignoring the law) is that the general public don't care about LGBT people in Qatar where in certain place in the UK LGBT people who display effeminate or non-effeminate characteristics  are open to ridicule or in come cases violence.  

If the point of this post is to draw attention to homophobia in the UK then it’s an excellent post. If the point of this post is to assert that it’s better to be an LGBT person in Qatar, then it’s a wildly inappropriate use of statistics. 

[shade]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This discussion has become rather circular.

 

Though we might say that for a lot of FT discourse.

wait until you hear my views on climate change (joke)

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

38 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

Am I wrong?

Yes.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, shade said:

wait until you hear my views on climate change (joke)

What, that it's a matter of empirical evidence, it's happening right now, it's human caused and will cause untold death and suffering unless addressed rapidly at a global level?

 

Good.

[K1FOX]

2 minutes ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

Yes.

So you can watch football without rainbows being shoved in your face? They’re everywhere man open your eyes.

[RumbleFox]

17 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

Great of you to take snippets of points. 
 

Why are we so desperate to make sports people come out as gay? Maybe there just aren’t as many people within sports who are gay as we think? Ever thought of that? The endless campaigns in a country which is so tolerant are tiresome and have no place in football in my opinion.

I’m genuinely confused, I didn’t mean to take snippets, I was enjoying talking with you. Talking of taking snippets….. I didn’t say I was desperate for them to come out, I just think it’s a shame people can’t be themselves while playing the sport they love. Obviously I’ve not done the research, on whether sexuality affects one’s ability/interest to play sports but my gut is that it doesn’t.  It sounds a fascinating area of research though, I’d be happy to do a paper on it if you’d assist? Would probably make us quite famous and if you’re right, that gay people just don’t want to play football as much as us straightos you would be able to rid the world forever of these stupid campaigns.
 

What I can say with 100% authority is that there must be more one gay man playing football in the entire world. So clearly there is an issue with people not feeling comfortable to come out. Which to me isn’t right. 

Edited 26 November 2022 by RumbleFox

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

34 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Oh come on behave! From the whole post the way "you perceive" I've put a slant on the word migrants you've chosen to comment on? No comment on the actual content? 

Oh come on! 'Behave' yourself.

I can choose to comment (or not) on any part of a post of yours, or anyone's. You don't get to decide which bits of what you say I reply to, any more than I get to do that for you.

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

26 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

As a straight woman, I'd just like to point out that a man's penis is probably the least attractive part of him. Most men look ok until they take their clothes off, not the other way around, despite what most of you think 

Not me. I look dreadful until I take my clothes off, at which point I look substantially worse.

[RumbleFox]

28 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

As a straight woman, I'd just like to point out that a man's penis is probably the least attractive part of him. Most men look ok until they take their clothes off, not the other way around, despite what most of you think 

A straight woman?!? In a football forum?! But how can you watch/play/enjoy football if you’re attracted to men?! X 

[Lcfc82]

5 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

I’m genuinely confused, I didn’t mean to take snippets, I was enjoying talking with you. Talking of taking snippets….. I didn’t say I was desperate for them to come out, I just think it’s a shame people can’t be themselves while playing the sport they love. Obviously I’ve not done the research, on whether sexuality affects one’s ability/interest to play sports but my gut is that it doesn’t.  It sounds a fascinating area of research though, I’d be happy to do a paper on it if you’d assist? Would probably make us quite famous and if you’re right, that gay people just don’t want to play football as much as us straightos you would be able to rid the world forever of these stupid campaigns.
 

What I can say with 100% authority is that there must be more one gay man playing football in the entire world. So clearly there is an issue with people not feeling comfortable to come out. Which to me isn’t right. 

Do you think people might not want to come out because they can’t be arsed with all the inevitable media interest that would come with it ?

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

But again I ask who are we to decide their laws need changing? 
 

Which laws contravene human rights btw? 

Your ‘but’ is mission creep - the objection is to Qatar hosting a World Cup rather than Qatar’s running of their country. The very wording FIFA uses to determines that a country to host is to be inclusive. 

 

The following:- 

- Use of lashings as a punishment 

- renouncing religion has a punishment of prison for five years

- homosexuality has a similar punishment

- employment of migrant Labour is via a sponsorship system which includes the retention of their passport. Equally disallowing the right to change job (something which happens at a professional level alongside hard labour) 

- Womens rights are severely reduced 

- Only Qatar nationals (19% of the population) can vote. Worth mentioning here some of the football team are not nations in this sense

- freedom of press and expression is reduced - jail time up to 3 years for criticism of the state 

 

[RumbleFox]

Just now, Lcfc82 said:

Do you think people might not want to come out because they can’t be arsed with all the inevitable media interest that would come with it ?

There might be some yes, I didn’t say there wasn’t? Thank you though, for pulling me up on it. 

[westernpark]

Just now, CosbehFox said:

Your ‘but’ is mission creep - the objection is to Qatar hosting a World Cup rather than Qatar’s running of their country. The very wording FIFA uses to determines that a country to host is to be inclusive. 

 

The following:- 

- Use of lashings as a punishment 

- renouncing religion has a punishment of prison for five years

- homosexuality has a similar punishment

- employment of migrant Labour is via a sponsorship system which includes the retention of their passport. Equally disallowing the right to change job (something which happens at a professional level alongside hard labour) 

- Womens rights are severely reduced 

- Only Qatar nationals (19% of the population) can vote. Worth mentioning here some of the football team are not nations in this sense

- freedom of press and expression is reduced - jail time up to 3 years for criticism of the state 

 

It’s alright though because some England fan in a bucket hat has stroked a baby lion and eaten fruit at the table of the privileged.

[FoxesDeb]

2 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

Do you think people might not want to come out because they can’t be arsed with all the inevitable media interest that would come with it ?

In a fully inclusive society there wouldn't be any media interest. The only reason it would gain interest is because of the persistent view amongst some of society that not being heterosexual means people are somehow 'different' and this is what needs to change. IMO, of course.

[K1FOX]

8 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

I’m genuinely confused, I didn’t mean to take snippets, I was enjoying talking with you. Talking of taking snippets….. I didn’t say I was desperate for them to come out, I just think it’s a shame people can’t be themselves while playing the sport they love. Obviously I’ve not done the research, on whether sexuality affects one’s ability/interest to play sports but my gut is that it doesn’t.  It sounds a fascinating area of research though, I’d be happy to do a paper on it if you’d assist? Would probably make us quite famous and if you’re right, that gay people just don’t want to play football as much as us straightos you would be able to rid the world forever of these stupid campaigns.
 

What I can say with 100% authority is that there must be more one gay man playing football in the entire world. So clearly there is an issue with people not feeling comfortable to come out. Which to me isn’t right. 

Fair play mate. I agree there will be more than one but how many more we can’t determine. Links back to the ‘choice’ thing though doesn’t it? If you don’t choose to be gay then how are so many footballers hiding their natural inclinations so well and for so long? 

[Lcfc82]

2 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

In a fully inclusive society there wouldn't be any media interest. The only reason it would gain interest is because of the persistent view amongst some of society that not being heterosexual means people are somehow 'different' and this is what needs to change. IMO, of course.

I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think the media helps at all in this situation. 

[K1FOX]

17 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Your ‘but’ is mission creep - the objection is to Qatar hosting a World Cup rather than Qatar’s running of their country. The very wording FIFA uses to determines that a country to host is to be inclusive. 

 

The following:- 

- Use of lashings as a punishment 

- renouncing religion has a punishment of prison for five years

- homosexuality has a similar punishment

- employment of migrant Labour is via a sponsorship system which includes the retention of their passport. Equally disallowing the right to change job (something which happens at a professional level alongside hard labour) 

- Womens rights are severely reduced 

- Only Qatar nationals (19% of the population) can vote. Worth mentioning here some of the football team are not nations in this sense

- freedom of press and expression is reduced - jail time up to 3 years for criticism of the state 

 

Protest against FIFA then not the country. 
 

And from that list how many affect us in the UK or in other western countries? Zero. It’s their country and their rules. I’m pretty sure the interpretation of them laws is very different to how it looks on paper as well, which is a very important point. Out of interest when was the last time lashings were handed out in Qatar? Also key thing to note many of these laws only apply to Muslims.

Edited 26 November 2022 by K1FOX

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, K1FOX said:

Protest against FIFA then not the country. 
 

And from that list how many affect us in the UK or in other western countries? Zero. It’s their country and their rules. I’m pretty sure the interpretation of them laws is very different to how it looks on paper as well, which is a very important point. Out of interest when was the last time lashings were handed out in Qatar? 

And FIFA have been significantly lobbied and protested against. The armband that the seven countries wanted to do, Denmark’s colour accented shirt. They know it has to go through FIFA. 
 

Some of the stuff I’ve listened from actual Qataris is they actually don’t want it over highlighting (LGBT and women rights) as they fear the backlash from their government 
 

Your second point is whataboutery. You are moving the goal posts. It goes back to what FIFA deem in their own hosting qualification. 
 

But it’s affecting enough to western countries, that the UK government feels the need to publish this on their website - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/qatar-information-for-victims-of-rape-and-sexual-assault/guidance-for-victims-of-rape-and-sexual-assault-in-qatar

 

I described elsewhere I know of a British lad who met a fellow ex Pat in Doha. She fell pregnant and they effectively had to escape without anyone noticing the pattern. 
 

Under the guise of FIFA hosting criteria, Qatar does not fit. That’s the objection - the objection of Qatar as a nation is a different thing and I understand the point of view that to a degree it’s their culture and their decision making (which is very funny really when it was still British protected until 1971)

 

The last reported use of lashings I can see is 2016. Probably in part because of the coverage in recent years on Qatar. 

 

[RumbleFox]

Just now, K1FOX said:

Fair play mate. I agree there will be more than one but how many more we can’t determine. Links back to the ‘choice’ thing though doesn’t it? If you don’t choose to be gay then how are so many footballers hiding their natural inclinations so well and for so long? 

I mean it mate, if you can prove there are less gay people choosing to do sports you’ll shut me up. You’ll also put an end to all the rainbow stuff. You’ll be a hero. You should look into it. 

[K1FOX]

2 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

I mean it mate, if you can prove there are less gay people choosing to do sports you’ll shut me up. You’ll also put an end to all the rainbow stuff. You’ll be a hero. You should look into it. 

In effect the proof is in the pudding? Currently there are hardly any gay people in sports? Are they all in the closet? Very big closet if so?