Also in the News - Part 2

[Sol thewall Bamba]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

The Titanic viewing capsule missing in the Atlantic only has about 60 hours of oxygen available for those on board. 

Just watched a video on the company running the expedition and sadly it doesn't seem surprising that something like this has happened.  

 

 

Edited 20 June 2023 by Sol thewall Bamba

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

Given the regret rates are a fraction of a percentage (detransitioners make up like 2% of the trans population and detransition due to regret is a tiny proportion of that, primary reason is for safety and as a result of transphobic bullying), plus the UK already having competency assessments for kids to consent (gillick competence) and the level of gatekeeping in trans healthcare (continued access to puberty blockers on the nhs has been made dependent on agreeing to participate in clinical studies, while the waiting lists for adult care run at least 3 years with assessments designed to be humiliating and find justification for denying care (your doctor never needs to know about your masturbatory habits but they ask and expect you to answer, and trans women have anecdotally been declined as a result of nonsense like "doesn't own enough pairs of shoes"), that wouldn't be a smart money bet. 

 

to be frank, the "mass wave of detransitioners and lawsuits" is the anti-trans movements equivalent of the rapture, a complete fiction that is always right around the corner 

Regret rates - way too early to be relying on them now, a decent base case will be 10-15 years in. Likewise the governance you state might be adequate now, but I would not be surprised if it isn't in 10-15 years when understanding and maturity in the area has rapidly developed.

It's funny watching/reading corporate statements on climate disclosures and risks from the mid-2000s, they think they did everything right at the time (and they did based on available info), they're still being taken to court now and rightly so.

We are talking about children changing gender, quite a big deal, there might not be a mass wave of litigation now but it will sure as hell come in the medium term. A school teacher is by no means qualified to advise on this LOL never mind keep it confidential!!

Btw before the pile on begins, I fully support people's right to be happy. Change gender and love who you love, just be happy.

But you can smell the money from a mile away here, it will be a huge bounty.

[Trumpet]

24 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Just watched a video on the company running the expedition and sadly it doesn't seem surprising that something like this has happened.  

 

 

That’s absolutely terrifying. Such a small space, in something that’s controlled by a game controller. That’d be a big nope from me.

[The Doctor]

57 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I do think you're simplifying those statistics, yes 5% put down the reason as regret, but a number of the others will involve a form of regret. The 4% who said the initial transition did not reflect their gender identity is regret in other words and certainly not a success.

That 4% is variants of MtFtX, FtMtX, MtXtF and FtXtM, where X signifies non-binary. It's not reasonable to count them into regret based detransition, particularly for assessing the likelihood of some mass wave of lawsuits which has totally been any day now for years, because it's basically a rapture belief

 

Too hard, pressure from friends/family etc, can't find a job, too much discrimination. They are not exclusive to regret. 

 

In this survey it very much is, multiple responses per participant are registered to cover all factors for that participant. The 5% is the regret ratio.

[ian__marshall]

I must say that this was a hard read this morning. We really do live amongst some absolute scumbags. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/Iot1dIWVS5/hunting-the-monkey-torturers

[ClaphamFox]

9 minutes ago, Trumpet said:

That’s absolutely terrifying. Such a small space, in something that’s controlled by a game controller. That’d be a big nope from me.

It seems like the equivalent of agreeing to take a biplane ride in 1910. I hope they're found in time, but this is looking very grim...

[The Doctor]

10 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

You need to stop reading Mermaids / Stonewall nonsense.

Mulling it over and I do want to just cover this because it's a pretty insidious part of anti trans arguments. Trans genocide is not a conspiracy theory, not limited to fringe cranks, it's held by mainstream American conservatism: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-speaker-transgender-people-eradicated-1234690924/

 

And it's held by mainstream authors in the gender critical movement:

 

 

“[Trans people] are a huge problem to a sane world… Every one of them is a difficulty… they’re going to need things the rest of us don’t need… so the fewer of those people there are the better.”

 

When you start describing people existing as a huge problem and a need to keep numbers low, you invariably end up at genocide, and claiming it's a lie and disparaging advocacy groups for raising the alarm is incredibly dangerous 

[Captain...]

48 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

That 4% is variants of MtFtX, FtMtX, MtXtF and FtXtM, where X signifies non-binary. It's not reasonable to count them into regret based detransition, particularly for assessing the likelihood of some mass wave of lawsuits which has totally been any day now for years, because it's basically a rapture belief

 

 

 

 

In this survey it very much is, multiple responses per participant are registered to cover all factors for that participant. The 5% is the regret ratio.

Fair point, I should have twigged from the percentages it was multiple answer.

 

I still maintain it will be very hard to admit that you regret transitioning and it is easier to put other factors down as your reason for reversal, rather than admit to yourself you were wrong, but that cannot be measured.

 

Either way, it will be interesting to see how these trends continue.

 

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Not really how it works. The majority of trans people are LGBQA after transition, and there's huge solidarity between trans people and cis LGB people. The claim trans people are homophobic and are opposed by LGB people is coming from straight people, not LGB people. https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/

 

It absolutely is a thing though. Stop and think for a second. Ask yourself why this fuss was basically non existent a decade ago - and remember that Goodwin v UK which lead to the GRA was 2 decades ago, it's not a "we want legal rights" thing. The actual answer is that it's because America passed gay marriage 8 years ago with Obergefell. That was of course unacceptable to the anti-LGBT arseholes, and so they targeted down trans rights in a divide and conquer approach (because LGBT rights have consistently been advanced through group solidarity between the LGB and the T). This isn't speculation, it's well documented: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/christian-right-tips-fight-transgender-rights-separate-t-lgb

 

And so groups like the LGB Alliance and WoLF, Fair Play for Women etc were set up and funded by the far right (why do you think that small organisations like LGBA are based out of 55 tufton street) and began a media blitz to manufacture an anti-trans moral panic, which unfortunately a lot of people have been taken in by.

If there were a god, which there isn’t, you are doing the Lord’s work here - with a far greater level of patience and far fewer swear words than I’d ever manage. *applause*

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Daggers said:

If there were a god, which there isn’t, you are doing the Lord’s work here - with a far greater level of patience and far fewer swear words than I’d ever manage. *applause*

The guy is as close to an expert on the topic as we have here.

[Facecloth]

BBC News - Andrew Tate charged with rape and human trafficking

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65959097

 

Some good news.

[leicsmac]

50 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

BBC News - Andrew Tate charged with rape and human trafficking

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65959097

 

Some good news.

It is good news. Goodness knows how long it will all take to resolve and in the meantime the guy is still there dripping his poison, though.

[Zear0]

Wonder if Hustlers University do a module on safe handling of soap? 

[ClaphamFox]

4 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Not really how it works. The majority of trans people are LGBQA after transition, and there's huge solidarity between trans people and cis LGB people. The claim trans people are homophobic and are opposed by LGB people is coming from straight people, not LGB people. https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/

 

It absolutely is a thing though. Stop and think for a second. Ask yourself why this fuss was basically non existent a decade ago - and remember that Goodwin v UK which lead to the GRA was 2 decades ago, it's not a "we want legal rights" thing. The actual answer is that it's because America passed gay marriage 8 years ago with Obergefell. That was of course unacceptable to the anti-LGBT arseholes, and so they targeted down trans rights in a divide and conquer approach (because LGBT rights have consistently been advanced through group solidarity between the LGB and the T). This isn't speculation, it's well documented: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/christian-right-tips-fight-transgender-rights-separate-t-lgb

 

And so groups like the LGB Alliance and WoLF, Fair Play for Women etc were set up and funded by the far right (why do you think that small organisations like LGBA are based out of 55 tufton street) and began a media blitz to manufacture an anti-trans moral panic, which unfortunately a lot of people have been taken in by.

Do you have any evidence for your claim that the LGB Alliance and Fair Play for Women were set up, and are funded by, the 'far right'? 

Edited 20 June 2023 by ClaphamFox

[bovril]

The sub thing feels like a story from the early 2010s. Like tragic but also kind of fascinating in a fun way. Before the perma-crisis we've got used to in the last few years. 

[Fox92]

5 hours ago, Wymsey said:

The Titanic viewing capsule missing in the Atlantic only has about 60 hours of oxygen available for those on board. 

I read an article from someone who went on this previously and it sounded horrific. She signed paperwork that said the capsule hasn't been certified etc so going at your own risk.

 

It's a great part of history but it's something I'd rather not do. Miles down into the sea and relying on something else controlling it.

 

Must be horrific for the people on it knowing they've only got an amount of air left.

Edited 20 June 2023 by Fox92

[leicsmac]

Yeah, being trapped at the bottom of the sea with only limited life support would be like being trapped in space with the same; a pretty primal and terrifying fear.

[ClaphamFox]

12 minutes ago, bovril said:

The sub thing feels like a story from the early 2010s. Like tragic but also kind of fascinating in a fun way. Before the perma-crisis we've got used to in the last few years. 

The dream scenario is that it managed to get back up to the surface and is bobbing about waiting to be found. However, if it IS found at the bottom of the ocean, does the technology exist to get it back to the surface?

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

The dream scenario is that it managed to get back up to the surface and is bobbing about waiting to be found. However, if it IS found at the bottom of the ocean, does the technology exist to get it back to the surface?

As far as I know, not in the time frame available. It's thousands of metres of water.

 

I would think a rescue op would involve sending down either a manned or unmanned sub that would then dock, get everybody aboard that, then return to the surface.

[SpacedX]

I was immediately reminded of the horrific Kursk tragedy, although the submariners only survived for an estimated six to eight hours after the blast had crippled the sub. 

[SeCrEt FoX]

5 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

The dream scenario is that it managed to get back up to the surface and is bobbing about waiting to be found. However, if it IS found at the bottom of the ocean, does the technology exist to get it back to the surface?

My thoughts too. Also would decompression sickness play a factor here? I mean if the only got a limited oxygen surely they need saving ASAP but can't bring them up too quickly because of the risk of the bends. It doesn't look good. They got to be located, somehow attach some sort of lifting device and bring them up. Gonna take a while just to do all that. 

[ian__marshall]

I'm not an engineer but that submarine sounds very poorly designed, to the point where you have to wonder how it was signed off for use. Apparently from what I've read this morning the submarine capsule is locked in place from the outside with no escape hatch, and whilst it has the capability to send GPS data and other radio communications it has to be on the surface to transmit said signals. 

 

I hope the submarine is found in time and all the passengers are rescued as I genuinely cannot comprehend what they must be going through right now. 

[bovril]

5 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I was immediately reminded of the horrific Kursk tragedy, although the submariners only survived for an estimated six to eight hours after the blast had crippled the sub. 

I remember that one. Very disturbing. Seemed at the time like an echo of a bygone age but now seems more a preview of current times. 

[Zear0]

5 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

I'm not an engineer but that submarine sounds very poorly designed, to the point where you have to wonder how it was signed off for use. Apparently from what I've read this morning the submarine capsule is locked in place from the outside with no escape hatch, and whilst it has the capability to send GPS data and other radio communications it has to be on the surface to transmit said signals. 

 

I hope the submarine is found in time and all the passengers are rescued as I genuinely cannot comprehend what they must be going through right now. 

Quite, the NSRS (NATO Submarine Rescue System) is designed, as the name suggests, to rescue crew from sunk submarines. It's an extremely well engineered craft but retrieving crew from that depth is even beyond it's capability. I can't even figure how you'd tether a rope to the craft to yank it up. I pray I'm wrong, but I'm not holding much hope for the poor souls. 

Edited 20 June 2023 by Zear0

[The Doctor]

15 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Do you have any evidence for your claim that the LGB Alliance was set up, and is funded by, the 'far right'? 

So for starters they're based out of 55 tufton street: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/lgb-alliance-55-tufton-street-think-tanks/

 

A site that is exclusively for far right think tanks.

 

Launch assisted by CBC consultant Gary Powell who has heavy connections to far right think tanks in the heritage Foundation and Alliance Defending Freedom:

 

https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/06/03/lgb-alliance-gary-powell-center-bioethics-culture-alliance-defending-freedom-anti-lgbt/

 

Anyone approaching from a reasonable position would see a think tank based out of a site for far right think tanks, launched with help from consultants for far right think tanks and say "yep, that's a far right think tank".