Also in the News - Part 2

[MonkeyTennis?]

16 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

My daughter has just finished her GCSE's at a Leicestershire school, and I can confirm that she definitely had someone in her year who identified as a cat. No idea how this was handled within the school though. 

Same here, at least two in different years at my kids' school. As I understand it, the school is trying not to get involved with it at all, but it really is a thing. Whether it not is a serious thing, or just an odd little internet trend, is another matter. 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

The guardians take on this child identifying as a cat nonsense:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jun/23/child-identifying-as-cat-controversy-from-a-tiktok-video-to-media-frenzy

 

Just goes to show it is all just culture war bull shit and anyone who genuinely believes that there is a school where a child is allowed to identify as a cat needs to actual provide some evidence and not repeat all this bollocks that has been spread by those with a very thinly veiled agenda.

Apart from going into a school with a video camera, which would be rather dubious, how can anyone provide evidence? And even if you did, the school would just deny it and call it fake because of how ridiculous it makes them look.  In fact, you could say that about anything if you've not physically witnessed it. "i don't believe that car goes 200mph just because jeremy clarkson say so"

[leicsmac]

24 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

Same here, at least two in different years at my kids' school. As I understand it, the school is trying not to get involved with it at all, but it really is a thing. Whether it not is a serious thing, or just an odd little internet trend, is another matter. 

Oh, there's no doubt some kids are being...well, teenage kids.

 

But the schools are not facilitating or enabling it, which is the crux of the matter.

 

23 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Apart from going into a school with a video camera, which would be rather dubious, how can anyone provide evidence? And even if you did, the school would just deny it and call it fake because of how ridiculous it makes them look.  In fact, you could say that about anything if you've not physically witnessed it. "i don't believe that car goes 200mph just because jeremy clarkson say so"

Yep. And there lies the whole difficulty being faced in the age of social mass media now.

 

The very idea of the truth is decaying because it is now so easy to simply feed people different "truths" that they simply want to hear, rather than what really is. Finding actually reliable sources of information and being able to parse them has become really difficult and a lot of people simply don't have the time - and I don't blame them for that, I blame the ones feeding "truth" to them for profit.

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

The guardians take on this child identifying as a cat nonsense:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jun/23/child-identifying-as-cat-controversy-from-a-tiktok-video-to-media-frenzy

 

Just goes to show it is all just culture war bull shit and anyone who genuinely believes that there is a school where a child is allowed to identify as a cat needs to actual provide some evidence and not repeat all this bollocks that has been spread by those with a very thinly veiled agenda.

Hahahah dude, provide evidence from A SCHOOL? If I give you the name of a cat school you can rock up wearing a Mac with a video camera and tell them you need to ‘get special evidence’ and we’ll go from there 

[grobyfox1990]

30 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Apart from going into a school with a video camera, which would be rather dubious, how can anyone provide evidence? And even if you did, the school would just deny it and call it fake because of how ridiculous it makes them look.  In fact, you could say that about anything if you've not physically witnessed it. "i don't believe that car goes 200mph just because jeremy clarkson say so"

yeh. I know it’s impossible for anyone to provide evidence therefore I’ll ask for said evidence to be provided which means I’m proven right. Proper kangaroo court this. I love it 

[yorkie1999]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Oh, there's no doubt some kids are being...well, teenage kids.

 

But the schools are not facilitating or enabling it, which is the crux of the matter.

 

Yep. And there lies the whole difficulty being faced in the age of social mass media now.

 

The very idea of the truth is decaying because it is now so easy to simply feed people different "truths" that they simply want to hear, rather than what really is. Finding actually reliable sources of information and being able to parse them has become really difficult and a lot of people simply don't have the time - and I don't blame them for that, I blame the ones feeding "truth" to them for profit.

It's not just now though, do you believe in UFO's? there's enough evidence to suggest they exist, but no-one believes they exist, same as ghosts, how does anyone know they exist if they've never seen one? Take Russia at the moment, is an army of 50000 men really marching on Moscow to find one man who promised 40000 of them that if they join Wagner they'd be pardoned from their crimes after 6 months of service in Ukraine, which is round about now isn't it. 

Edited 24 June 2023 by yorkie1999

[Daggers]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

 

The very idea of the truth is decaying because it is now so easy to simply feed people different "truths" that they simply want to hear, rather than what really is. 

That’s why I rely on the evidence of my own eyes - like from this genuine school CCTV footage:

 

 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

yeh. I know it’s impossible for anyone to provide evidence therefore I’ll ask for said evidence to be provided which means I’m proven right. Proper kangaroo court this. I love it 

...or folks can simply qualify their remarks as opinion rather than stating them as (apparent) fact and using it to shape their worldview and prejudices. That would be good too.

 

Goodness knows the demographic being discussed (trans folks) comes in for more than enough prejudice without misinformation fueling it.

 

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

It's not just now though, do you believe in UFO's? there's enough evidence to suggest they exist, but no-one believes they exist, same as ghosts, how does anyone know they exist if they've never seen one?

I'm not sure that any of the evidence that they exist comes from credible sources so it's a maybe for me there. TBH I reckon if aliens could travel between the stars, their tech would be so advanced they'd either be able to hide from us perfectly, they'd just wipe us out and we'd never see it coming, or they're just watching and fvcking with us (Zoo hypothesis). Who knows?

[grobyfox1990]

12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

...or folks can simply qualify their remarks as opinion rather than stating them as (apparent) fact and using it to shape their worldview and prejudices. That would be good too.

 

Goodness knows the demographic being discussed (trans folks) comes in for more than enough prejudice without misinformation fueling it.

 

I'm not sure that any of the evidence that they exist comes from credible sources so it's a maybe for me there. TBH I reckon if aliens could travel between the stars, their tech would be so advanced they'd either be able to hide from us perfectly, they'd just wipe us out and we'd never see it coming, or they're just watching and fvcking with us (Zoo hypothesis). Who knows?

If something is impossible to prove it can only be  an opinion? That makes no sense. Are you saying if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, it’s only an opinion that falling trees make noises? Also if kids want to ‘identify as a cat’ so be it. They’ve got decades of fighting against the world to come, atleast be happy and care free for a few years of your life.

 

Comments like ‘prove it’ with regards to kids in schools are so laughably ridiculous, I’m sure the poster knows it. No adult should be interfering in a kids innocence in their school to win some pointless internet war 

Edited 24 June 2023 by grobyfox1990
Typo

[yorkie1999]

8 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Certainly it's still valid, just making the point that without evidence, no one who reads this has the slightest reason to believe anything you said on the matter beyond confirmation bias.

 

Hierarchical Social Darwinism was always the better way, wasn't it?

Dunno, maybe, seems to work where discipline is required, like the forces or in prison.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

If something is impossible to prove it can only be  an opinion? That makes no sense. Are you saying if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, it’s only an opinion that falling trees make noises? Also if kids want to ‘identify as a cat’ so be it. They’ve got decades of fighting against the world to come, atleast be happy and care free for a few years of your life.

 

Comments like ‘prove it’ with regards to kids in schools are so laughably ridiculous, I’m sure the poster knows it. No adult should be interfering in a kids innocence in their school to win some pointless internet war 

We know that trees make noise when they fall and we are there to witness it, and that is proof enough that they also do when we don't. But then that's veering a little into the epistemological which always feels like a circle-jerk for its own sake to me (though sometimes a necessary one). Directly witnessing something empirically and it being repeated and corroborated in a credible environment makes it a fact rather than an opinion. And yeah, if someone cannot prove something either with their own evidence or by citing reliable sources, then it is only opinion, not fact.

 

I can see why someone would think asking someone else to prove the assertion about school life as ridiculous, but there's a reason for that - that assertion has the potential to fuel prejudice against an already marginalised group (which I might think, is the very reason the Mail and other parties published it in the first place) and so it is harmful. Therefore making sure that it is either proven or simply written off as opinion and/or misinformation might go some way to reducing that level of harm. Leaving it alone just makes people think that it might indeed be fact, and lead them to conclusions that then cause further harm.

 

12 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Dunno, maybe, seems to work where discipline is required, like the forces or in prison.

Agreed, two areas where the worst of human action is often displayed may well require it. A throwback solution for the throwback propensity of man to want to bash that other guys head in with a rock and/or steal his shit.

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

We know that trees make noise when they fall and we are there to witness it, and that is proof enough that they also do when we don't. But then that's veering a little into the epistemological which always feels like a circle-jerk for its own sake to me (though sometimes a necessary one). Directly witnessing something empirically and it being repeated and corroborated in a credible environment makes it a fact rather than an opinion. And yeah, if someone cannot prove something either with their own evidence or by citing reliable sources, then it is only opinion, not fact.

 

I can see why someone would think asking someone else to prove the assertion about school life as ridiculous, but there's a reason for that - that assertion has the potential to fuel prejudice against an already marginalised group (which I might think, is the very reason the Mail and other parties published it in the first place) and so it is harmful. Therefore making sure that it is either proven or simply written off as opinion and/or misinformation might go some way to reducing that level of harm. Leaving it alone just makes people think that it might indeed be fact, and lead them to conclusions that then cause further harm.

 

Agreed, two areas where the worst of human action is often displayed may well require it. A throwback solution for the throwback propensity of man to want to bash that other guys head in with a rock and/or steal his shit.

Don’t you think that someone pretending to be a cat needs a quiet word in the ear though? Something like, will you stop acting like a twat.

[grobyfox1990]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

We know that trees make noise when they fall and we are there to witness it, and that is proof enough that they also do when we don't. But then that's veering a little into the epistemological which always feels like a circle-jerk for its own sake to me (though sometimes a necessary one). Directly witnessing something empirically and it being repeated and corroborated in a credible environment makes it a fact rather than an opinion. And yeah, if someone cannot prove something either with their own evidence or by citing reliable sources, then it is only opinion, not fact.

 

I can see why someone would think asking someone else to prove the assertion about school life as ridiculous, but there's a reason for that - that assertion has the potential to fuel prejudice against an already marginalised group (which I might think, is the very reason the Mail and other parties published it in the first place) and so it is harmful. Therefore making sure that it is either proven or simply written off as opinion and/or misinformation might go some way to reducing that level of harm. Leaving it alone just makes people think that it might indeed be fact, and lead them to conclusions that then cause further harm.

 

Agreed, two areas where the worst of human action is often displayed may well require it. A throwback solution for the throwback propensity of man to want to bash that other guys head in with a rock and/or steal his shit.

Fair enough re the trees, agreed.

 

Seems I’m missing the whole point of this debate then lol. Is it that kids acting like cats are fuelling hatred against trans community?!?! I have not and will not click on any daily mail article. But it’s a sad indictment of the world. Kids acting like kids, you know… crazy and illogical, have to be somehow forced into a tickbox and tagged. 

[grobyfox1990]

4 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Don’t you think that someone pretending to be a cat needs a quiet word in the ear though? Something like, will you stop acting like a twat.

They will get that when they’re older. Or have a mental breakdown. Why have a quiet word with them at this age, there’s a place in life for innocence 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Don’t you think that someone pretending to be a cat needs a quiet word in the ear though? Something like, will you stop acting like a twat.

If it's buggering up their school life, absolutely. But as groby pointed out, kids are kids and there's a place for innocence.

 

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Fair enough re the trees, agreed.

 

Seems I’m missing the whole point of this debate then lol. Is it that kids acting like cats are fuelling hatred against trans community?!?! I have not and will not click on any daily mail article. But it’s a sad indictment of the world. Kids acting like kids, you know… crazy and illogical, have to be somehow forced into a tickbox and tagged. 

Yeah, they're taking the most "spectacular" example and then going from there to "look, this kid identifies as a cat - isn't that ridiculous? And so isn't them identifying as a different gender ridiculous too?" The latter sentence there may not be explicitly stated every time, but it's implied often enough. It's rather clever use of the slippery slope fallacy, and it helps fuel the idea of anyone identifying as anything other than what they were born as as some kind of abnormal degenerate.

[Fox in the North]

 

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Fox in the North said:

 

Lee Anderson needs to get firmly in the bin. 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Lee Anderson needs to get firmly in the bin. 

Yep.

[Daggers]

 

[Zear0]

51 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Lee Anderson needs to get firmly in the bin. 

Very full bin this week, hope the lids shuts.

[Grebfromgrebland]

1 hour ago, Fox in the North said:

 

Exactly and the last thing we should do in this forum is fall for this idiots and the governments plan and give kind of ridiculous debate oxygen.

 

 

[Captain...]

3 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

If something is impossible to prove it can only be  an opinion? That makes no sense. Are you saying if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, it’s only an opinion that falling trees make noises? Also if kids want to ‘identify as a cat’ so be it. They’ve got decades of fighting against the world to come, atleast be happy and care free for a few years of your life.

 

Comments like ‘prove it’ with regards to kids in schools are so laughably ridiculous, I’m sure the poster knows it. No adult should be interfering in a kids innocence in their school to win some pointless internet war 

The point was, here is an article researched and written by an organisation with a proven track record on journalistic standards and it explains how and why this debate has come out and has actual sources and quotes to back it up.

 

If you are going to say that that article is wrong and that schools are allowing children to identify as cats you need to have something to back it up that has even greater degree of journalistic merit and a higher level of source evidence.

 

You can't refute a researched article with, "There's a kid at my daughter's school that identifies as a cat!" Whilst there is anecdotal evidence of kids identifying as cats and there are possibly some kids out there that genuinely believe they are cats. There is no evidence that schools are indulging this, using their cat names and providing cat food and litter trays.

[grobyfox1990]

38 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The point was, here is an article researched and written by an organisation with a proven track record on journalistic standards and it explains how and why this debate has come out and has actual sources and quotes to back it up.

 

If you are going to say that that article is wrong and that schools are allowing children to identify as cats you need to have something to back it up that has even greater degree of journalistic merit and a higher level of source evidence.

 

You can't refute a researched article with, "There's a kid at my daughter's school that identifies as a cat!" Whilst there is anecdotal evidence of kids identifying as cats and there are possibly some kids out there that genuinely believe they are cats. There is no evidence that schools are indulging this, using their cat names and providing cat food and litter trays.

Yeh didn’t realise there was a daily mail article and associated trans mania around it. Seems a bit much for kids thinking they are cats. When I was 8 I genuinely believed I was a bin man. Would’ve been properly sh1t if I was stitched up for someone’s monetary bias whilst pretend collecting the bins 

[yorkie1999]

4 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

They will get that when they’re older. Or have a mental breakdown. Why have a quiet word with them at this age, there’s a place in life for innocence 

They ain’t 8 year olds, they’re young adults , 15-16 year olds.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

The point was, here is an article researched and written by an organisation with a proven track record on journalistic standards and it explains how and why this debate has come out and has actual sources and quotes to back it up.

 

If you are going to say that that article is wrong and that schools are allowing children to identify as cats you need to have something to back it up that has even greater degree of journalistic merit and a higher level of source evidence.

 

You can't refute a researched article with, "There's a kid at my daughter's school that identifies as a cat!" Whilst there is anecdotal evidence of kids identifying as cats and there are possibly some kids out there that genuinely believe they are cats. There is no evidence that schools are indulging this, using their cat names and providing cat food and litter trays.

And saucers of milk