Also in the News - Part 2

[bovril]

46 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

You make it sound like institutional racism isn't a problem that affects all the countries where there were protests.

Which is why I found the protests slightly absurd - to a great extent they appropriated the look, slogans and even the cause of the BLM movement in America, even in a very different context (e.g. in European where Roma are essentially excluded from the state or where anti refugee policies are enacted). 

 

American culture is hegemonic to the extent that even movements for social justice in Europe have become greatly Americanised. And yes, I'm generalising here.

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Sparrowhawk said:

Really?

When I look back at a lot of the response to the George Floyd killing in the spring and summer of 2020, I cringe, yes. 

[leicsmac]

In light of the current events in the Middle East, I'm reminded again of this quote:

 

""A man once jumped from the top floor of a burning house in which many members of his family had already perished. He managed to save his life; but as he was falling he hit a person standing down below and broke that person’s legs and arms. The jumping man had no choice; yet to the man with the broken limbs he was the cause of his misfortune. If both behaved rationally, they would not become enemies. The man who escaped from the blazing house, having recovered, would have tried to help and console the other sufferer; and the latter might have realized that he was the victim of circumstances over which neither of them had control. But look what happens when these people behave irrationally. The injured man blames the other for his misery and swears to make him pay for it. The other, afraid of the crippled man’s revenge, insults him, kicks him, and beats him up whenever they meet. The kicked man again swears revenge and is again punched and punished. The bitter enmity, so fortuitous at first, hardens and comes to overshadow the whole existence of both men and to poison their minds."

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

Which is why I found the protests slightly absurd - to a great extent they appropriated the look, slogans and even the cause of the BLM movement in America, even in a very different context (e.g. in European where Roma are essentially excluded from the state or where anti refugee policies are enacted). 

 

American culture is hegemonic to the extent that even movements for social justice in Europe have become greatly Americanised. And yes, I'm generalising here.

Yeah it didn’t fit us at all, like don’t get me wrong black people will experience profiling in the UK, but never has racial tension between the police and ethnic groups really been anything close to what is experienced in the states. Plus there was a big defund the police narrative behind the protest, didn’t really apply to us because of how depleted our police forces are. The narrative we should have to our police force is for it to actually be competent rather than defund it because it feels like they have too much power 

[Captain...]

43 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Yeah it didn’t fit us at all, like don’t get me wrong black people will experience profiling in the UK, but never has racial tension between the police and ethnic groups really been anything close to what is experienced in the states. Plus there was a big defund the police narrative behind the protest, didn’t really apply to us because of how depleted our police forces are. The narrative we should have to our police force is for it to actually be competent rather than defund it because it feels like they have too much power 

The defund the police is not specific to the US and does still apply here. It is not about just cutting police budgets for the sake of it, but diverting funds from policing problem areas into community support, social services, youth services etc. Schemes that go the tackling the root cause of violence and not just throwing money at more policing to crack some heads together.

 

I think this also applies to some of the poorer areas of the UK, but we don't have the same ghettoisation as the US so whilst not directly comparable it is a sentiment that still applies.

[yorkie1999]

59 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The defund the police is not specific to the US and does still apply here. It is not about just cutting police budgets for the sake of it, but diverting funds from policing problem areas into community support, social services, youth services etc. Schemes that go the tackling the root cause of violence and not just throwing money at more policing to crack some heads together.

 

I think this also applies to some of the poorer areas of the UK, but we don't have the same ghettoisation as the US so whilst not directly comparable it is a sentiment that still applies.

This is more of a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, surely the budget for the police is what is required for them to function. What is really required is an increase in community budgets.

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

This is more of a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, surely the budget for the police is what is required for them to function. What is really required is an increase in community budgets.

True, but that's also true of all budgets.

 

When you see very little money coming in to tackle societal problems and plenty of money coming in to recruit and arm people who are supposed protect you, yet they do the opposite, well you can see their point.

[ajthefox]

6 hours ago, bovril said:

Which is why I found the protests slightly absurd - to a great extent they appropriated the look, slogans and even the cause of the BLM movement in America, even in a very different context (e.g. in European where Roma are essentially excluded from the state or where anti refugee policies are enacted). 

 

American culture is hegemonic to the extent that even movements for social justice in Europe have become greatly Americanised. And yes, I'm generalising here.

I can agree on the americanisation of social justice to some extent and I appreciate your generalising but the idea the protest being 'absurd' seems an absurd thing to say to me.

 

I'm sure some people were conflating issues that may not have been so relevant in different contexts but the bottom line is people took inspiration from it, especially the scale I think.

 

I think getting into the minutiae of exactly why and how everyone was protesting and cringing at it is pretty odd, but of course it's your perogative to do so.

 

 

[bovril]

44 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

I can agree on the americanisation of social justice to some extent and I appreciate your generalising but the idea the protest being 'absurd' seems an absurd thing to say to me.

 

I'm sure some people were conflating issues that may not have been so relevant in different contexts but the bottom line is people took inspiration from it, especially the scale I think.

 

I think getting into the minutiae of exactly why and how everyone was protesting and cringing at it is pretty odd, but of course it's your perogative to do so.

 

 

I think aspects of it were absurd. I remember a British woman interviewed in London who said something along the lines of "we want just want our boys to stop dying on the street", which is understandable, but in London I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) black males are much more at risk of gang violence than police brutality. That seemed absurd to me, along with some of the other things celebrities and brands did in that very strange year.

 

I don't think discussing why and how people protested is odd at all. I think it's pretty normal. I would like there to be some reflection and discussion as to why there were more protests in Europe in response to the death of a Black American than in response to, for example, the EU's refugee policies. Much of the BLM movement is avowedly political and associated with the far left, which is fine, but I think it's normal to discuss whether their aims and methods are either relevant or desirable in a European context. 

[Free Falling Foxes]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

I think aspects of it were absurd. I remember a British woman interviewed in London who said something along the lines of "we want just want our boys to stop dying on the street", which is understandable, but in London I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) black males are much more at risk of gang violence than police brutality. That seemed absurd to me, along with some of the other things celebrities and brands did in that very strange year.

 

I don't think discussing why and how people protested is odd at all. I think it's pretty normal. I would like there to be some reflection and discussion as to why there were more protests in Europe in response to the death of a Black American than in response to, for example, the EU's refugee policies. Much of the BLM movement is avowedly political and associated with the far left, which is fine, but I think it's normal to discuss whether their aims and methods are either relevant or desirable in a European context. 

Whether this reflects 'social justice' I know not, but I've just read a fund that was started to support the family of the lad shot by police in France, has raised just a quarter of the total compared to the police officer fund.

 

[Lionator]

Has there ever been a good peace proposal for Israel/Palestine? It’s such a horrible, fragile situation for all. I feel sorry for the oppression which Palestinians have had to experience at the hands of particularly hardline Israeli governments such as the current one, but also understanding the reasons why an Israeli state should exist in that part of the world. 

[Daggers]

The Times:

 

 

[Sparrowhawk]

10 hours ago, Lionator said:

Has there ever been a good peace proposal for Israel/Palestine?

Yes, there have been workable two state solutions put forward.

[Grebfromgrebland]

 

This is exactly where we are as a nation right now. This is how the world sees us.

 

 

 

[Daggers]

10 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

 

This is exactly where we are as a nation right now. This is how the world sees us.

 

 

 

The lot of them are absolute cvnts. And I’ll happily take another 24hr ban for saying it. Nasty, venal, hateful and uncaring cvnts. Not a single redeeming feature. 

[RumbleFox]

2 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

 

This is exactly where we are as a nation right now. This is how the world sees us.

 

 

 

Imagine how awful your life must be if you see that and ask them to paint over it. Like imagine how small and petty and evil and joyless you’d have to be? Horrendous. It’s an overused phrase but i genuinely don’t know how these people sleep at night. Also, I never usually like to address people’s physical appearance but I’ll make an exception in this case. That cvnt is 41. 41?!? He looks like and older Harold Bishop. Tory cvnt bastard. 

[Daggers]

Johnny Mercer says using food banks is a choice this morning. 
 

They’re just sooooo adorable. 

[Sparrowhawk]

2 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Johnny Mercer says using food banks is a choice this morning. 

Well he's not wrong.

Use the food bank.

Or starve.

That's a choice, ain't it?

[Daggers]

1 minute ago, Sparrowhawk said:

Well he's not wrong.

Use the food bank.

Or starve.

That's a choice, ain't it?

True

[RoboFox]

I've said it before, but under this lot the country has lurched dangerously towards being a right-wing dystopia. 

 

Not like any of this language is accidental though. They know exactly what they're saying and who they're appealing to. 

 

Trumpian tactics. 

[bovril]

4 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

I've said it before, but under this lot the country has lurched dangerously towards being a right-wing dystopia. 

 

Not like any of this language is accidental though. They know exactly what they're saying and who they're appealing to. 

 

Trumpian tactics. 

It's desperation in response to being far back in the polls. Doesn't work as well as it did in the past as people are more worried about being increasingly poorer than immigrants / trans rights / whatever

Edited 4 July 2023 by bovril

[Daggers]

Bloody communist banks, government, industry and the 55 Tufty St club

 

 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Bloody communist banks, government, industry and the 55 Tufty St club

 

 

Digital media - the biggest double edged sword since the invention/mass production of the firearm.

[Zear0]

Not that sly if Matt has spotted it.

[Daggers]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Digital media - the biggest double edged sword since the invention/mass production of the firearm.

But it does add to the evidence of damage caused by heading the ball.