Foxdiamond Posted 23 July 2023 Share Posted 23 July 2023 2 minutes ago, Captain... said: Delays to medical care is delays to medical care. 1 baby Vs thousands of vulnerable people. They were not consciously delaying a baby getting to hospital. That was not the purpose of the protest. The government is consciously under funding the NHS, under paying the NHS staff (hence the strikes) and lying to our faces about opening new hospitals. I'm not saying don't be angry about them delaying a baby getting to hospital, be angry, be very angry. However consider the number of children put into poverty by this government, consider the ridiculous lengths of waiting lists now and the horrendous mismanagement of the COVID crisis and consider these same incompetent liars are the very reason for JSO protesting and how easy the solution is to stop JSO (if you're not sure all the government need to do is what they said they would with regard new licenses). Consider all that and decide who you should be really really fvcking angry at. Surely you can be angry at both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Leeds Fox Posted 23 July 2023 Popular Post Share Posted 23 July 2023 29 minutes ago, Captain... said: Delays to medical care is delays to medical care it is a valid comparison. 1 baby Vs thousands of vulnerable people. They were not consciously delaying a baby getting to hospital. That was not the purpose of the protest. The government is consciously under funding the NHS, under paying the NHS staff (hence the strikes) and lying to our faces about opening new hospitals and consciously issuing new oil licenses despite saying they wouldn't. I'm not saying don't be angry about them delaying a baby getting to hospital, be angry, be very angry. However consider the number of children put into poverty by this government, consider the ridiculous lengths of waiting lists now and the horrendous mismanagement of the COVID crisis and consider these same incompetent liars are the very reason for JSO protesting and how easy the solution is to stop JSO (if you're not sure all the government need to do is what they said they would with regard new licenses). Consider all that and decide who you should be really really fvcking angry at. The video that the discussion was about was the JSO protestors preventing a woman taking her child to hospital. The protest was clearly not about that, but when the situation to inconvenience people changed to one that was preventing a child attending hospital (possibly urgently), a decision needed to be made by JSO. They made that decision therefore consciously prevented a child attending hospital. Somehow you’ve derailed discussions to the issues faced by the NHS and child poverty (which I don’t necessarily disagree with) but they’re completely irrelevant subjects to the one initially discussed. The last sentence is ridiculous, I could be angry at many people simultaneously for completely different reasons. Hating the Govt for making terrible decisions doesn’t make the protest that potentially put the health of a baby in jeopardy any better. It really comes across that you’re either a JSO supporter or apologist, which you have every right to be, but use unrelated subjects to justify some of their less savoury actions/decisions and lack of human empathy to a situation that they aren’t really fighting against. Before you counter my previous sentence, yes emissions need cutting down, but using a car to attend hospital isn’t the issue. Doubt you’d fancy a bus ride or a walk to A&E with a sick child? I know I wouldn’t. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 23 July 2023 Share Posted 23 July 2023 1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said: Surely you can be angry at both. Yes, do be, that's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 23 July 2023 Share Posted 23 July 2023 1 hour ago, Leeds Fox said: The video that the discussion was about was the JSO protestors preventing a woman taking her child to hospital. The protest was clearly not about that, but when the situation to inconvenience people changed to one that was preventing a child attending hospital (possibly urgently), a decision needed to be made by JSO. They made that decision therefore consciously prevented a child attending hospital. Somehow you’ve derailed discussions to the issues faced by the NHS and child poverty (which I don’t necessarily disagree with) but they’re completely irrelevant subjects to the one initially discussed. The last sentence is ridiculous, I could be angry at many people simultaneously for completely different reasons. Hating the Govt for making terrible decisions doesn’t make the protest that potentially put the health of a baby in jeopardy any better. It really comes across that you’re either a JSO supporter or apologist, which you have every right to be, but use unrelated subjects to justify some of their less savoury actions/decisions and lack of human empathy to a situation that they aren’t really fighting against. Before you counter my previous sentence, yes emissions need cutting down, but using a car to attend hospital isn’t the issue. Doubt you’d fancy a bus ride or a walk to A&E with a sick child? I know I wouldn’t. To be honest I'm just giving my reaction. I'm not angry that a baby got delayed on the way to hospital because it pales in comparison to the anger I have for the people JSO are protesting about. The crimes of delaying a few emergencies pale into insignificance compared to the crimes against the people of this country over the last 13 years. I don't know if it makes me an apologist, but I find the reaction to one delay to one emergency to be over the top when thousands of people are facing delays to emergency medical care every day. As I said, be angry, that's fine, just be proportionally angrier at the ***** ruining our country. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Fox Posted 23 July 2023 Share Posted 23 July 2023 2 minutes ago, Captain... said: To be honest I'm just giving my reaction. I'm not angry that a baby got delayed on the way to hospital because it pales in comparison to the anger I have for the people JSO are protesting about. The crimes of delaying a few emergencies pale into insignificance compared to the crimes against the people of this country over the last 13 years. I don't know if it makes me an apologist, but I find the reaction to one delay to one emergency to be over the top when thousands of people are facing delays to emergency medical care every day. As I said, be angry, that's fine, just be proportionally angrier at the ***** ruining our country. I agree with you on the other subjects. Especially having seen first hand the effect of delayed NHS screening/treatment. Of course a single event doesn’t compare to the grand scale issues of the NHS. However one was easily avoidable and the other is the symptom of deep rooted negligence that will take a huge effort to undo. While JSO might feel they have a duty to enforce change, again, I don’t necessarily disagree with them. They don’t have the right to have such a negative effect on the average Joe. It doesn’t necessarily have to be someone missing hospital. A builder not getting to a job could mean they miss mortgage payments etc. I am being a bit OTT there but what gives JSO the right to stop people attending appointments, getting to work etc? I understand their plight, but the way they come across is appalling. The fact they say they will allow emergency vehicles with blues on through as if they have the choice not to, when in reality they should be arrested for some of their actions. I usually enjoy your posts, especially in Gen Chat, but the tunnel vision you’re showing on this subject surprised me. Obviously any sane person should want to preserve the planet, unfortunately the same people still need to get to work, hospital, visit family or actually just be afforded the freedom to be able to travel freely without JSO acting like they have a divine right to cause mayhem. I suppose I’m being naive expecting a middle-class minority being able shrug off their ingrained superiority complex. Hopefully we can agree on something football related in the coming weeks in the other forum 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 23 July 2023 Share Posted 23 July 2023 21 minutes ago, Captain... said: To be honest I'm just giving my reaction. I'm not angry that a baby got delayed on the way to hospital because it pales in comparison to the anger I have for the people JSO are protesting about. The crimes of delaying a few emergencies pale into insignificance compared to the crimes against the people of this country over the last 13 years. I don't know if it makes me an apologist, but I find the reaction to one delay to one emergency to be over the top when thousands of people are facing delays to emergency medical care every day. As I said, be angry, that's fine, just be proportionally angrier at the ***** ruining our country. If it was your baby or the baby of one of those blocking the road. Would you or they care about bigger picture 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 23 July 2023 Share Posted 23 July 2023 I'm sure it's not my imagination that we've talked a lot more about one woman who was delayed when taking her baby to hospital than the approx 3000 excess deaths (UK Gov's own figures) recorded during the extreme hot spell in the UK in 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 23 July 2023 Share Posted 23 July 2023 12 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said: I'm sure it's not my imagination that we've talked a lot more about one woman who was delayed when taking her baby to hospital than the approx 3000 excess deaths (UK Gov's own figures) recorded during the extreme hot spell in the UK in 2022 Which you would not in the moment consider if someone was blocking the road if you are frantic worrying about your baby. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said: Which you would not in the moment consider if someone was blocking the road if you are frantic worrying about your baby. Yes. A very human reaction, and completely understandable. However, while we really should be looking for a situation where neither of the bad things mentioned here are happening, it doesn't change the logic regarding more lives and less lives at stake. So it is somewhat flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 8 hours ago, Foxdiamond said: Which you would not in the moment consider if someone was blocking the road if you are frantic worrying about your baby. Well if you're that person, yes, of course, and as a man in a heterosexual relationship, angry women in leggings are something I find very relatable. I still don't find it very healthy that our attention is pulled in the direction of the experience of one individual when there's something quantifiably bad that's actually happening, and on a much bigger scale 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 3 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said: Well if you're that person, yes, of course, and as a man in a heterosexual relationship, angry women in leggings are something I find very relatable. I still don't find it very healthy that our attention is pulled in the direction of the experience of one individual when there's something quantifiably bad that's actually happening, and on a much bigger scale That's the defense I would use in court after being brought up on charges after running one of these idiots over, if my wife/child was in danger. "Your honor, how can you sit there and worry about my crime of only killing one person, when there are people killing more" Wrong is wrong, no matter the scale. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 11 minutes ago, marbles said: That's the defense I would use in court after being brought up on charges after running one of these idiots over, if my wife/child was in danger. "Your honor, how can you sit there and worry about my crime of only killing one person, when there are people killing more" Wrong is wrong, no matter the scale. Out of interest, what do you think I'm defending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 8 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said: Out of interest, what do you think I'm defending? don't really think you're defending - I think what you're saying is that we should be looking at the bigger picture (environmental destruction) and not focusing so much on individual pieces (pregnant woman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachhere Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66284304 he just gives over the impression of someone who is really bored and just trying out changing different things to see what will happen next 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 24 July 2023 Author Share Posted 24 July 2023 7 minutes ago, rachhere said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66284304 he just gives over the impression of someone who is really bored and just trying out changing different things to see what will happen next Think he likes to try to ruffle a few feathers, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboFox Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 1 hour ago, Daggers said: That reminds me, I need to delete my Twitter account. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 4 hours ago, marbles said: don't really think you're defending - I think what you're saying is that we should be looking at the bigger picture (environmental destruction) and not focusing so much on individual pieces (pregnant woman) Pretty much, but I'd also emphasise that it's not a binary choice - you don't have to pick a side. I can feel sorry for a panicking parent and be worried about climate catastrophe at the same time. I said earlier in this thread (I think it was this one anyway) that if everybody's upset about the effects of the protests to the extent that it's distracting the from the actual reason for the protests, they might need a bit of a rethink. All I've learned from the last few days is that a lot of people are very vocal about how they would go to great or even extreme lengths to protect their children, which is a bit pointless as doesn't that apply to pretty much all parents? Even me, I've grown quite fond of mine over time 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 4 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said: Pretty much, but I'd also emphasise that it's not a binary choice - you don't have to pick a side. I can feel sorry for a panicking parent and be worried about climate catastrophe at the same time. I said earlier in this thread (I think it was this one anyway) that if everybody's upset about the effects of the protests to the extent that it's distracting the from the actual reason for the protests, they might need a bit of a rethink. All I've learned from the last few days is that a lot of people are very vocal about how they would go to great or even extreme lengths to protect their children, which is a bit pointless as doesn't that apply to pretty much all parents? Even me, I've grown quite fond of mine over time To say nothing of the fact that caring about one's own children goes without saying, but if you then don't care for other children in certain situations, pretty soon their problems can become your problems anyway, which wouldn't have happened without the lack of foresight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 HM Government: "We have listened to the public and their current issues with the public transport infrastructure and will be addressing this immediately, regardless of the current economic crisis, by delivering fast upgraded electric rail services in... *checks notes* ...Turkey." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: To say nothing of the fact that caring about one's own children goes without saying, but if you then don't care for other children in certain situations, pretty soon their problems can become your problems anyway, which wouldn't have happened without the lack of foresight. Unfortunately I think this is true of some people in regard of public services as a whole. They don't think about them unless they are in need of said service. This allows for cutbacks as saving public money but we all suffer a poorer quality in our country 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said: Unfortunately I think this is true of some people in regard of public services as a whole. They don't think about them unless they are in need of said service. This allows for cutbacks as saving public money but we all suffer a poorer quality in our country I think it's true of a fair few people and it's something I've commented on often before - people not looking beyond themselves and taking the status quo for granted. Then bad things happen and some folks wonder why, when the answer is so obvious. We need to break, or at least mitigate, that cycle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weller54 Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 Tom Hopper just launched his own food brand.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 I'm scratching my head as to why the Mail On Sunday did a front page on the 'vile' documentary being put together about lying in politics, which includes an investigation into whether a certain bumbling ex PM fibbed about being gravely ill with COVID-19, the net result of this now being: a) a lot more people now know about the allegation than before b) a lot more people now know about the documentary than before c) the extra attention has resulted in an upsurge in its funding 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox in the North Posted 24 July 2023 Share Posted 24 July 2023 How is Farage even remotely newsworthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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