Also in the News - Part 2

[Lionator]

12 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Guardian article link alert:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/13/brexit-brain-science-psychology-divided-uk-debate

 

This is most definitely NOT about the rights and wrongs of Brexit, but is very much about how our brains work and the problems that polarisation causes

Interesting article. Although I still don’t like the link to brexit. I’ve met many people on the left who are equally as black or white in their thinking. The best way to get over this is to move past the idea that there’s a right or wrong way to think (within reason). 

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

Every problem can be traced back to neo capitalism... until the 60/70s corporations believed that ensuring their staff were appropriately supported and could live a reasonable life on their wage. 

Enter Thatcher, Reagan and corrupt business practices (Jack Welch, Friedman and the Chicago School etc), corporations put shareholders ahead of people. 

 

Still ties into housing being the issue. The system is rigged towards those with the wealth. The landlords can do what they want and the markets change with that. What’s a young person supposed to do? Either they live with their parents, or they spend an ever increasing % of their income on rent. 

[ozleicester]

13 minutes ago, Lionator said:

What’s a young person supposed to do?

Change the system

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Change the system

I think rather soon circumstances will force such a change. At least somewhat.

[Lionator]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I think rather soon circumstances will force such a change. At least somewhat.

Adam Curtis has said so much in his recent interviews, but he has no idea where it's coming from.

[Blarmy]

39 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Still ties into housing being the issue. The system is rigged towards those with the wealth. The landlords can do what they want and the markets change with that. What’s a young person supposed to do? Either they live with their parents, or they spend an ever increasing % of their income on rent. 

With you on that - we moved into a place a year ago that had known about but undisclosed sewerage flies. Turns out there was a broken waste pipe in the downstairs loo and a large accumulation of excrement.  Getting it sorted resulted in many days of plumbers on site, the place stank and obviously we couldn’t use the room - for four months. On top of that the heating didn’t work, one of the bedrooms had a leaky roof, we had a huge leak into the kitchen and the  boiler failed. We’ve had workmen on site 20-30 times, had to stop in hotels, shower at families houses and had a large container of medicines.  We’ve spent hours essentially administering the place for the millionaire landlord, getting it liveable.

 

At one point the estate agents said we would only get out deposit back - our money - if we withdraw “all complaints and allegations”. We were served an end of tenancy notice because we dared to complain, pretty stressful when you have an 8-year old living with you. 

 

The estate agents official complaints procedure, that also took up a lot of our time, resulted in “nobody has done anything wrong, you’re owed nothing”.  Going through the redress scheme with PRS - more of our time wasted - resulted in £ 250 being offered. We pay £ 1350 a month in rent. 

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Every problem can be traced back to neo capitalism... until the 60/70s corporations believed that ensuring their staff were appropriately supported and could live a reasonable life on their wage. 

Enter Thatcher, Reagan and corrupt business practices (Jack Welch, Friedman and the Chicago School etc), corporations put shareholders ahead of people. 

 

I largely agree with you, but with nuances....

 

Until the 60s/70s, especially due to post-WW2 reconstruction, economic growth in the West was higher so corporations could fund higher pay/living standards and still make good profits. Unemployment was also low and unions were stronger. So capital could afford to fund better living standards and labour had the power to demand this. I don't think it was just that corporations were somehow more moral back then (though cut-throat globalisation may also have made moral capitalism less viable).

 

For various reasons, including oil price shocks, this mutually beneficial situation ended in the 70s with economic crises and lower growth across the West. The triumph of Thatcherite laissez-faire economics and the corporate lobby since then was effectively a decision as to who was going to pay the price of lower growth in the West - the people/workers, not the corporations (though some workers with skills benefiting capital do well and some big/small businesses are squeezed or discarded).

 

There IS also a particular issue with the UK housing market. I don't know much about the US or Aussie housing market, but houses/flats in France or Spain are much cheaper like-for-like than houses/flats in the UK, while in Germany a much higher percentage of people rent. This is despite those countries facing the same global triumph of laissez-faire capitalism, even if they've embraced it a bit less themselves. The UK has a much stronger "home ownership" culture, whereas other countries find other ways of saving long-term, via savings accounts, pensions etc., not just ever higher house prices.

 

A massive part of that housing market problem, though, is due to housing policy since Thatcher in the 80s. While I didn't support the policy of a "Right to Buy" council houses, it was popular (not least as prices were often more generous to those buying their council houses than to the taxpayer/ratepayer!) and I can see an argument for Right to Buy.....so long as the housing stock sold off is replaced with new affordable homes to rent for those not ready or able to buy. That's the absolutely evil thing that Thatcher & co did: they largely prevented councils from using Right to Buy revenues to build more council houses, while systematically cutting central govt funding of local govt and restricting the ability of councils to raise Council Tax, so that they could win elections as the party of low tax. Tbf Labour did little better on housing & local govt 1997-2010, prioritising the NHS, education, rolling out welfare (childcare/tax credits etc.). They're promising to prioritise housing if elected next year, but will be severely restricted given the state of the nation's finances (Labour inherited a recovering economy in 1997, albeit with wrecked public services) - and they'll do well to achieve major improvements in the housing market within 5 years (and God knows what sort of Govt we might have by 2029).

 

Cynical Tory abuse of the housing market is not the only issue with the UK housing market. There's also planning difficulties restricting affordable house building, Buy-to-Let landlords mopping up the homes of Right-To-Buy boomers - my generation & older etc. But housing absolutely is a major, distinctive feature in how the laissez-faire capitalist crisis affects the UK.

 

As for Cassandra (I mean @leicsmac )..... You are absolutely right to keep making your point about the mayhem probably pending for the capitalist system, 21st century society, indeed for humanity. 

Only King Knut (who knew he couldn't control the waves) has a reputation as undeserved as Cassandra. She correctly foresaw the downfall of Troy, it was just that no fvcker would listen to her.....

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Adam Curtis has said so much in his recent interviews, but he has no idea where it's coming from.

It is difficult to tell.

 

Personally, I think unless there is at least some systemic changes, at some point a combination of circumstances will result on enough pressure being placed on the bottom tiers of Maslow's Hierarchy for enough people that there will be serious civil unrest in a great deal of places. And at that point radical change will be inevitable - the choice will just be what form it takes, whether the powers that be are somehow convinced to relinquish some of their power and establish a better system, or they will clamp down absolutely, the system we have will collapse, and we'll be left with either a 1984- style dystopia or a Mad Max-style one.

 

I hope that I'm wrong. I fear that I'm not.

 

1 hour ago, Blarmy said:

With you on that - we moved into a place a year ago that had known about but undisclosed sewerage flies. Turns out there was a broken waste pipe in the downstairs loo and a large accumulation of excrement.  Getting it sorted resulted in many days of plumbers on site, the place stank and obviously we couldn’t use the room - for four months. On top of that the heating didn’t work, one of the bedrooms had a leaky roof, we had a huge leak into the kitchen and the  boiler failed. We’ve had workmen on site 20-30 times, had to stop in hotels, shower at families houses and had a large container of medicines.  We’ve spent hours essentially administering the place for the millionaire landlord, getting it liveable.

 

At one point the estate agents said we would only get out deposit back - our money - if we withdraw “all complaints and allegations”. We were served an end of tenancy notice because we dared to complain, pretty stressful when you have an 8-year old living with you. 

 

The estate agents official complaints procedure, that also took up a lot of our time, resulted in “nobody has done anything wrong, you’re owed nothing”.  Going through the redress scheme with PRS - more of our time wasted - resulted in £ 250 being offered. We pay £ 1350 a month in rent. 

And I think this is far from the only story of this type, too.

 

1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

As for Cassandra (I mean @leicsmac )..... You are absolutely right to keep making your point about the mayhem probably pending for the capitalist system, 21st century society, indeed for humanity. 

Only King Knut (who knew he couldn't control the waves) has a reputation as undeserved as Cassandra. She correctly foresaw the downfall of Troy, it was just that no fvcker would listen to her.....

As per above, I wish I was wrong but I don't think I am - the present system is now not only unsustainable morally (that could at least be managed; civilisations have existed with far greater inequalities in the past, after all) but also practically, too. So change is going to come, whether in our control or not.

[Torquay Gunner]

2 hours ago, Blarmy said:

With you on that - we moved into a place a year ago that had known about but undisclosed sewerage flies. Turns out there was a broken waste pipe in the downstairs loo and a large accumulation of excrement.  Getting it sorted resulted in many days of plumbers on site, the place stank and obviously we couldn’t use the room - for four months. On top of that the heating didn’t work, one of the bedrooms had a leaky roof, we had a huge leak into the kitchen and the  boiler failed. We’ve had workmen on site 20-30 times, had to stop in hotels, shower at families houses and had a large container of medicines.  We’ve spent hours essentially administering the place for the millionaire landlord, getting it liveable.

 

At one point the estate agents said we would only get out deposit back - our money - if we withdraw “all complaints and allegations”. We were served an end of tenancy notice because we dared to complain, pretty stressful when you have an 8-year old living with you. 

 

The estate agents official complaints procedure, that also took up a lot of our time, resulted in “nobody has done anything wrong, you’re owed nothing”.  Going through the redress scheme with PRS - more of our time wasted - resulted in £ 250 being offered. We pay £ 1350 a month in rent. 

That's disgusting,  I feel for you. My partner and I are lucky having moved from Devon(albeit having fallen off the ladder)we have been renting a 2 bedroom apartment for the last six years in Cheltenham with no major issues. We pay 950 a month having started off at 875, so no big increases.  However, we believe the landlord may be selling next year, so it will undoubtedly be difficult to find something similar. It's clear many politicians could not give a rats arse about 'ordinary'people's housing problems'. What's the point in removing section 21 notices, if landlords can simply price existing tenants out of the property.

 

Just as importantly, penalties for sub standard properties should be increased and actually enforced. Some of the housing I have seen on recent documentaries are just not fit for any human habitation and yet those landlords are rarely prosecuted.  We sure are evolving aren't we!

[RobHawk]

Nadine Dorries has now been resigning with immediate effect longer than Liz truss was prime minister. 

 

Yet sunak still sits there and does nothing, absolutely baffling. 

Edited 14 August 2023 by RobHawk

[Bellend Sebastian]

10 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Cognitive dissonance on matters of discovered and proven fact is not only a pain in the arse to deal with, but when made into political policy, actively dangerous and harmful.

 

5 hours ago, Lionator said:

Interesting article. Although I still don’t like the link to brexit. I’ve met many people on the left who are equally as black or white in their thinking. The best way to get over this is to move past the idea that there’s a right or wrong way to think (within reason). 

Yeah, I don't think the Brexit link was particularly helpful either but I suppose it's just meant to make the headline more interesting. You're absolutely right that this is an issue that causes issues at both ends of the political system which I suppose just underlines what a problem polarisation has become

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, RobHawk said:

Nadine Dorries has now been resigning with immediate effect longer than Liz truss was prime minister. 

 

Yet sunak still sits there and does nothing, absolutely baffling. 

What can he do exactly? And why would he want another by election if he can avoid one?

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, RobHawk said:

Nadine Dorries has now been resigning with immediate effect longer than Liz truss was prime minister. 

 

Yet sunak still sits there and does nothing, absolutely baffling. 

Any other job she would have been sacked for not attending work

[RobHawk]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

What can he do exactly? And why would he want another by election if he can avoid one?

Remove the whip, at least try and show to have some integrity within his party. 

 

No integrity was expected with Boris, Rishi isn't showing much better is he. 

[FoyleFox]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-66503514

 

Shocking. Why would a 10-year-old be alone in the house? I have no knowledge of or interaction with children but, surely that's too young to be left?

[tom27111]

20 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-66503514

 

Shocking. Why would a 10-year-old be alone in the house? I have no knowledge of or interaction with children but, surely that's too young to be left?

 

Are the three who've fled the country family members?

 

Would explain a lot. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-66501156

[st albans fox]

8 hours ago, RobHawk said:

Nadine Dorries has now been resigning with immediate effect longer than Liz truss was prime minister. 

 

Yet sunak still sits there and does nothing, absolutely baffling. 

Irrespective of the fact that he doesn’t want a by election, sunak won’t be picking any fights with Johnsonites or the right of the party 

[Grebfromgrebland]

Quite possibly our weakest prime minister ever. Literally being dictated to from all angles.

 

 

[LCFCCHRIS]

What does everyone think about the trump charges ? Likely to come to anything? 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

What does everyone think about the trump charges ? Likely to come to anything? 

Goodness only knows. I'd like to hope so and that the US Justice Department actually have a case, but I've long since given up on making predictions about how it might play out.

[Alf Bentley]

21 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

What does everyone think about the trump charges ? Likely to come to anything? 

 

His supporters think Trump faces trumped-up charges. I'm not so sure.

[ozleicester]

Children worked for at least four Alabama parts suppliers to Hyundai and Kia in recent years, Reuters found. Staffing agencies placed migrant minors in plants where regulations ban kids from working. State and federal authorities are investigating.

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/


edit... A year old... but still

Edited 15 August 2023 by ozleicester

[Finnegan]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Goodness only knows. I'd like to hope so and that the US Justice Department actually have a case, but I've long since given up on making predictions about how it might play out.

 

Their conviction rate is staggeringly high and they've gone at him with an insane number of charges in an absolute salvo. All the while he keeps committing further offences just by fvcking tweeting. Man's own lawyers pulling their hair out. 

 

He's buried if he can't stall long enough to try and get elected and pardon himself. 

 

I just think the Republicans are lining up an own goal. The overwhelmingly silent majority of their voters aren't actually Trump's extremely vocal base, they just know they need the MAGA crowd because otherwise he WILL run independent and split their vote. 

 

But I think they'll lose a LOT of the people that voted Trump last time because they thought he might be competent and decent even if they found his antics obnoxious. He's been exposed as a crook and a simpleton and while the Qult might be blind to it, the average American isn't. And Biden has proven to, unsurprisingly, be a milquetoast centrist (shock) and not really do anything all that radical or left wing that might put them off. 

 

Biden gets in on a bigger majority next time IMO and Trump goes to jail (or some absolute kop out house arrest.) 

 

You can tell he's desperate because he's all over his socials ironically trying to incite Jan 6th 2.0 to help him out which is Trump levels of audaciously stupid. 

 

Edited 15 August 2023 by Finnegan

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Their conviction rate is staggeringly high and they've gone at him with an insane number of charges in an absolute salvo. All the while he keeps committing further offences just by fvcking tweeting. Man's own lawyers pulling their hair out. 

 

He's buried if he can't stall long enough to try and get elected and pardon himself. 

 

I just think the Republicans are lining up an own goal. The overwhelmingly silent majority of their voters aren't actually Trump's extremely vocal base, they just know they need the MAGA crowd because otherwise he WILL run independent and split their vote. 

 

But I think they'll lose a LOT of the people that voted Trump last time because they thought he might be competent and decent even if they found his antics obnoxious. He's been exposed as a crook and a simpleton and while the Qult might be blind to it, the average American isn't. And Biden has proven to, unsurprisingly, be a milquetoast centrist (shock) and not really do anything all that radical or left wing that might put them off. 

 

Biden gets in on a bigger majority next time IMO and Trump goes to jail (or some absolute kop out house arrest.) 

 

You can tell he's desperate because he's all over his socials ironically trying to incite Jan 6th 2.0 to help him out which is Trump levels of audaciously stupid. 

 

I hope you're right, I think you are, but I'm going to wait and see.

 

WRT the bolded, if that happens it will be with a massively reduced turnout compared to last time IMO given Biden's current approval ratings. Can see it happening though.