Also in the News - Part 2

[Jon the Hat]

7 hours ago, Daggers said:

Once you’ve left Primary school, there’s no need for attaboys and Everybody Wins day. 
 

If you place value on the action someone did - then pay them more money than the “pretty measly pay package”.

There is more to recognition than money as you well know.  

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Leicesterpool said:

Lucy Letby case I don't know something seems a bit odd about this. Is it possible that the hospital are trying to protect themselves and blame it all on one nurse making out she is murder... mates and family somewhat seem to be convinced she isn't. Or maybe overthinking it, she's is certainly evil and deserves to rot in prison. 

I haven't read much about it because it's so upsetting. What I have read, the evidence is not unbelievably strong imo. I think she did it, but I also think there is a not insignificant chance she didn't. 

[Leicesterpool]

The one thing I find weird about the whole thing is that in a her diary she talked about her dark thoughts, but why on earth would she share her evil plan and thoughts in a diary where it can be easily be found and discovered. Police aren't going to raid your house see your diary and think "oh no, we won't touch that it's personal" That's the first thing they'd want to look at. 

[Dunge]

6 minutes ago, Leicesterpool said:

The one thing I find weird about the whole thing is that in a her diary she talked about her dark thoughts, but why on earth would she share her evil plan and thoughts in a diary where it can be easily be found and discovered. Police aren't going to raid your house see your diary and think "oh no, we won't touch that it's personal" That's the first thing they'd want to look at. 

Not everything everyone does is faultlessly logical. On a given day it probably felt like a safe place to her. After all the main thing that had come out of the whole saga before the arrest was that she was being threatened with a promotion. Not the kind of thing that would put someone on their guard.

 

The simple answer is that she thought she’d keep getting away with it.

[Daggers]

40 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

There is more to recognition than money as you well know.  

Maybe the chairmen of chemical companies and investment banks could trouser £50k and the promise of an employee of the month at least once a year then?

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, nnfox said:

I have no doubt that Letby was responsible but the inquiry into the wider goings on will undoutedly point the finger at several professionals who will in turn try to protect their reputation, and job, by trying to shift the blame to someone else.

 

This is the bit I hate.  A lot of attention now turns to people who were just doing their job and we'll have a year of scrutinising every decision and conversation they made or didn't make.  To be honest, it takes attention away from Letby, who was evil.  

 

Personally I would rather it were a transparent fact finding mission to try and ensure that it doesn't happen again, rather than the inevitable witch hunt that tries to blame an individual or individuals for failings of the institution.

I think a lot of attention will be turned to people who were not doing their job.

 

Several other consultants and nurses reported her to management as being highly suspicious, and management ordered them to write a letter of apology while keeping her on the ward.  They are now going to have to produce the reports of what they did to investigate, and if what they did was sweep it under the carpet and did not properly investigate, then they will be in trouble.

[FoyleFox]

An unsurprising news story. Different MO, usually death by window. 

 

BBC News - Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin 'on board' crashed Russian plane
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66599733

[FoxesDeb]

1 minute ago, FoyleFox said:

An unsurprising news story. Different MO, usually death by window. 

 

BBC News - Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin 'on board' crashed Russian plane
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66599733

This must be Putin's way of securing all his enemies to house arrest by stealth. Previously they were only scared of windows, now they are afraid to fly. Waiting for the accidental death caused by a trip down the front doorsteps, and then nobody will dare to leave their house

 

[Daggers]

10 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66581218

 

With the obvious caveat of innocent until proven guilty, this all sounds pretty grim.

 

[String fellow]

1 hour ago, FoyleFox said:

An unsurprising news story. Different MO, usually death by window. 

 

BBC News - Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin 'on board' crashed Russian plane
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66599733

Putin didn't, of course, murder Prigozhin, he simply mounted a 'special operation' to see if the Wagner boss could survive the impact of a plane dropping like a stone onto the ground from an altitude of 29.000ft. Surprisingly enough, he couldn't!

[nnfox]

5 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

I think a lot of attention will be turned to people who were not doing their job.

 

Several other consultants and nurses reported her to management as being highly suspicious, and management ordered them to write a letter of apology while keeping her on the ward.  They are now going to have to produce the reports of what they did to investigate, and if what they did was sweep it under the carpet and did not properly investigate, then they will be in trouble.

Well, I mean yeah, something went dreadfully wrong and there should be an inquiry into what mistakes, if any, were made.  

 

I look at it from the point of view that the decision makers are regular decent people.  They may well be well regarded in their roles, and be amongst the most professional people you'll meet.  What exactly their job is with all intricacies, won't be reported.  All the times when they got it right won't be reported.  What their workload and pressure at the time won't be reported.  None of that.

 

Instead, it'll be that person X could have done something if they had done action A instead of action B, therefore it's their fault that Letby did what she did.

 

To me, that somehow takes the heat off Letby and lays blame at someone else's door, who, like the rest of us, will be utterly appalled by what happened, and are probably sitting at home right now beating themselves up over making the wrong call.

 

Lessons need to be learned, but throwing people under the bus doesn't help the situation at all.

[Wymsey]

Reckon Trump will be quite loving the media attention potentially tomorrow, ending with a beaming mugshot smile..

[dsr-burnley]

45 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Well, I mean yeah, something went dreadfully wrong and there should be an inquiry into what mistakes, if any, were made.  

 

I look at it from the point of view that the decision makers are regular decent people.  They may well be well regarded in their roles, and be amongst the most professional people you'll meet.  What exactly their job is with all intricacies, won't be reported.  All the times when they got it right won't be reported.  What their workload and pressure at the time won't be reported.  None of that.

 

Instead, it'll be that person X could have done something if they had done action A instead of action B, therefore it's their fault that Letby did what she did.

 

To me, that somehow takes the heat off Letby and lays blame at someone else's door, who, like the rest of us, will be utterly appalled by what happened, and are probably sitting at home right now beating themselves up over making the wrong call.

 

Lessons need to be learned, but throwing people under the bus doesn't help the situation at all.

Letby murdered at least two babies after the red flags were raised and ignored.  Surely anybody who was in position to stop the murders, and whose responsibility it was to stop the murders, and failed (through incompetence, stupidity, idleness, whatever) to do so, should be sacked.  Or at least found a less responsible job.

 

It doesn't matter how well meaning you are.  If your job is to save lives and you are incapable of doing it, you need a different job.

[Fox in the North]

Well the cable car incident looked terrifying! What a relief they all survived. (Drone footage of the cable car in the link below)

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-66597447

[nnfox]

8 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

Letby murdered at least two babies after the red flags were raised and ignored.  Surely anybody who was in position to stop the murders, and whose responsibility it was to stop the murders, and failed (through incompetence, stupidity, idleness, whatever) to do so, should be sacked.  Or at least found a less responsible job.

 

It doesn't matter how well meaning you are.  If your job is to save lives and you are incapable of doing it, you need a different job.

But was their job to investigate pretty extreme allegations?  What training had they received to investigate such claims?  Where was the policy on how these matters should be dealt with?  How far did the individuals involved diverge from their training and policies?  What else do they do in their job, or is investigating serious allegations all that they are paid to do?  If it emerges that they went rogue with their decision making, then absolutely, they need to suck up whatever they have coming.

 

I just have a problem with the failings of the system being pinned on one or two individuals and those people being vilified in the press to the extent that they are declared almost complicit in the crimes.

[ozleicester]

16 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

There is more to recognition than money as you well know.  

 

mmm recognition...



The only people who dont want increased pay as recognition are those earning more than they are worth.

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

 

mmm recognition...



The only people who dont want increased pay as recognition are those earning more than they are worth.

Where did I say people don’t deserve appropriate pay? They also deserve to be commended for good work and given credit for their efforts.  Daggers was suggesting it’s all bollocks except pay which isn’t true at all.

[dsr-burnley]

5 hours ago, nnfox said:

But was their job to investigate pretty extreme allegations?  What training had they received to investigate such claims?  Where was the policy on how these matters should be dealt with?  How far did the individuals involved diverge from their training and policies?  What else do they do in their job, or is investigating serious allegations all that they are paid to do?  If it emerges that they went rogue with their decision making, then absolutely, they need to suck up whatever they have coming.

 

I just have a problem with the failings of the system being pinned on one or two individuals and those people being vilified in the press to the extent that they are declared almost complicit in the crimes.

It's someone's job.  I refuse to believe that in the NHS there is no-one ultimately responsible for stopping the staff from killing people.  Whether they're killing people though incompetence or by murder, there has to be a chain of responsibility.  Ultimately, if there is no system in place to stop (or even investigate) excessive deaths, then the head of PHE has to go as she is ultimately responsible.

[MPH]

Aled Jones: Boy threatened to cut off Welsh singer's arm with machete https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66604588

 

 

 

 

 

 

its a good job they didn’t try and cut at his neck or they would have blunted the sword…

[Leeds Fox]

18 hours ago, nnfox said:

Well, I mean yeah, something went dreadfully wrong and there should be an inquiry into what mistakes, if any, were made.  

 

I look at it from the point of view that the decision makers are regular decent people.  They may well be well regarded in their roles, and be amongst the most professional people you'll meet.  What exactly their job is with all intricacies, won't be reported.  All the times when they got it right won't be reported.  What their workload and pressure at the time won't be reported.  None of that.

 

Instead, it'll be that person X could have done something if they had done action A instead of action B, therefore it's their fault that Letby did what she did.

 

To me, that somehow takes the heat off Letby and lays blame at someone else's door, who, like the rest of us, will be utterly appalled by what happened, and are probably sitting at home right now beating themselves up over making the wrong call.

 

Lessons need to be learned, but throwing people under the bus doesn't help the situation at all.

 

17 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

Letby murdered at least two babies after the red flags were raised and ignored.  Surely anybody who was in position to stop the murders, and whose responsibility it was to stop the murders, and failed (through incompetence, stupidity, idleness, whatever) to do so, should be sacked.  Or at least found a less responsible job.

 

It doesn't matter how well meaning you are.  If your job is to save lives and you are incapable of doing it, you need a different job.

 

9 hours ago, nnfox said:

But was their job to investigate pretty extreme allegations?  What training had they received to investigate such claims?  Where was the policy on how these matters should be dealt with?  How far did the individuals involved diverge from their training and policies?  What else do they do in their job, or is investigating serious allegations all that they are paid to do?  If it emerges that they went rogue with their decision making, then absolutely, they need to suck up whatever they have coming.

 

I just have a problem with the failings of the system being pinned on one or two individuals and those people being vilified in the press to the extent that they are declared almost complicit in the crimes.

Let’s not forget the senior management of the NHS are educated professionals whether that be in medicine, management, both or other disciplines. There are teams who offer advice on such matters and protocols to follow.

 

I understand pinning blame on individuals isn’t necessarily the answer nor will it assist in any future cases or similar suspicious fatalities. However, in all workplaces, there are duty holders who are ultimately responsible for their organisation’s actions, creating and enforcing policy.

 

If the Trust in question didn’t feel they had adequate experience to conduct investigations on the matter, they could’ve (should’ve) consulted the police or requested direction from further up the NHS chain.

 

Certain things in the build up and throughout this terrible act of prolonged reign of atrocities have been swept under the carpet… it remains to be seen whether it was unintentional, through negligence or to protect the reputation of the trust.
 

Whichever the cause, it has cost further young lives and none of the reasons appear to show the Trust in a good light whatsoever.

 

The fact nurses, doctors and consultants raised this to upper management, had their concerns dismissed and then were forced to apologies frankly beggars belief. 

 

[MPH]

18 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Reckon Trump will be quite loving the media attention potentially tomorrow, ending with a beaming mugshot smile..

 

 

 

Nah he's all about freedom and being untouchable. He will consider having a mugshot taken as a deep insult. 

 

I fear for the career of those prosecuting him if he get's re-elected.... He's evil enough to go after them.

[FoxesDeb]

I realise I'm probably pretty much on my own here, but I'm not 100% convinced Lucy Letby is responsible. It's always bothered me that all the evidence is pretty circumstantial. Lots of coincidences, but what if they are exactly that? The notes she wrote are for me the most damning, but it's still not an admission of guilt, nor is it concrete proof. 

 

Maybe I'm just getting soft the older I get, or maybe it's because I just can't comprehend a woman actually doing what she's been convicted of, idk.

[String fellow]

2 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

I realise I'm probably pretty much on my own here, but I'm not 100% convinced Lucy Letby is responsible. It's always bothered me that all the evidence is pretty circumstantial. Lots of coincidences, but what if they are exactly that? The notes she wrote are for me the most damning, but it's still not an admission of guilt, nor is it concrete proof. 

 

Maybe I'm just getting soft the older I get, or maybe it's because I just can't comprehend a woman actually doing what she's been convicted of, idk.

The way I interpreted her text messages was that she was trying to manipulate her colleagues into thinking that she was the victim, in the sense that she was the unlucky nurse who happened to be the only one around overnight when the babies died unexpectedly. Bizarrely, she even tried to get more babies to kill using the pretext of saying that seeing another sick baby would help her forget the sight of her previous victim. Coincidences do happen, but how many must there be before it becomes apparent that they aren't coincidences? Lots of Harold Shipman's elderly patients died unpexectedly after he'd seen them. Were they coincidences? If I'd been on the jury, guilty would have been my verdict without any doubt whatsoever.  

Edited 24 August 2023 by String fellow

[Bellend Sebastian]

Can't believe people are taking the piss out of how Florida Governor Ron De Santis was smiling during the Republican nominee debate the other night. I'm going to smile like this from now on

 

 

[reporterpenguin]

2 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

I realise I'm probably pretty much on my own here, but I'm not 100% convinced Lucy Letby is responsible. It's always bothered me that all the evidence is pretty circumstantial. Lots of coincidences, but what if they are exactly that? The notes she wrote are for me the most damning, but it's still not an admission of guilt, nor is it concrete proof. 

 

Maybe I'm just getting soft the older I get, or maybe it's because I just can't comprehend a woman actually doing what she's been convicted of, idk.

For me the most damning thing, though again circumstantial, is the fact that there were 13 deaths in her final year on the ward. In the 7 years since, there has been 1.