Also in the News - Part 2

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

That is not the case, the voice has no impact on sovereignty.  Why a voice to parliament won’t affect First Nations sovereignty as Lidia Thorpe fears | Indigenous voice to parliament | The Guardian

Ah okay, yeah I heard that was a big thing the aboriginals were worried about

[Bryn]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

What?  

 

You last point is nonsense.  Taking away charitable status of private schools would inevitably push many thousands more kids into the state schools costing them a fortune.  I am quite aware though the objective of those who promote this idea is to destroy the private school sector, so they don't care about that.

 

Also state schools don't pay any tax beyond employment related PAYE and NI, so that is also nonsense.

What a load of drivel. Change the legislation regarding charitable status to more clearly define what they have to do to maintain it. Currently they essentially have free reign to determine how much cash they have to hold in reserve to perform their “charitable status” and current law has been interpreted in court as meaning they can pump money into luxury infrastructure as it’s still charity even if it’s the wealthy that benefit. 
 

You telling me the oligarchs are suddenly going to start sending their kids down the local comprehensive because they have to pay the VAT on their school fees? Do me a favour.

 

We need to stop letting wealthy organisations tell us they’ll stop playing and take their ball home if we try and make them pay their way. Legislate against them so that if they want to make money they have to share it. If they want to forgo their charitable status and cancel their bursaries so be it, they can start paying dividends and we can hammer that for tax too.

[ozleicester]

First nations people have a 9 year shorter life expectancy than other Australians
The burden of disease for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people is 2.3 times that of non-Indigenous Australians. 

Compared with non-Indigenous Australians, Indigenous Australians are also:

2.9 times as likely to have long-term ear or hearing problems among children
2.7 times as likely to experience high or very high levels of psychological distress
2.1 times as likely to die before their fifth birthday
1.9 times as likely to be born with low birthweight
1.7 times as likely to have a disability or restrictive long-term health condition

Voting no is voting to continue to fail our first nations people... no is where we have for been for 200 years. Voting yes may start to improve the lives.

Edited 2 September 2023 by ozleicester

[ozleicester]

In Australia, the Government schools are called public, and independent/religious are called private. So government schools have had half the increase that is going to the rich privates.

[Jon the Hat]

4 hours ago, Bryn said:

What a load of drivel. Change the legislation regarding charitable status to more clearly define what they have to do to maintain it. Currently they essentially have free reign to determine how much cash they have to hold in reserve to perform their “charitable status” and current law has been interpreted in court as meaning they can pump money into luxury infrastructure as it’s still charity even if it’s the wealthy that benefit. 
 

You telling me the oligarchs are suddenly going to start sending their kids down the local comprehensive because they have to pay the VAT on their school fees? Do me a favour.

 

We need to stop letting wealthy organisations tell us they’ll stop playing and take their ball home if we try and make them pay their way. Legislate against them so that if they want to make money they have to share it. If they want to forgo their charitable status and cancel their bursaries so be it, they can start paying dividends and we can hammer that for tax too.

No point talking to you if you think only oligarchs kids go to private school. 

[ozleicester]

5 hours ago, Bryn said:

What a load of drivel. Change the legislation regarding charitable status to more clearly define what they have to do to maintain it. Currently they essentially have free reign to determine how much cash they have to hold in reserve to perform their “charitable status” and current law has been interpreted in court as meaning they can pump money into luxury infrastructure as it’s still charity even if it’s the wealthy that benefit. 
 

You telling me the oligarchs are suddenly going to start sending their kids down the local comprehensive because they have to pay the VAT on their school fees? Do me a favour.

 

We need to stop letting wealthy organisations tell us they’ll stop playing and take their ball home if we try and make them pay their way. Legislate against them so that if they want to make money they have to share it. If they want to forgo their charitable status and cancel their bursaries so be it, they can start paying dividends and we can hammer that for tax too.

The continuing story of the wealthy saying... "we'll move", "we'll stop sending our kids to private schools", "we'll stop earning millions" if you tax us.

Total bullshit... tax them and tax them HARD.

In the 50s, when inflation was a problem, governments instituted increased taxes to slow spending...so that the extra income benefited all, rather than the modern concept of interest rate increases which ONLY benefit the shareholders.

 

[Bryn]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

No point talking to you if you think only oligarchs kids go to private school. 

Probs not a lot of point in talking to someone who doesn’t want all children to have equal opportunities.

 

Go have a tantrum somewhere else.

[Jon the Hat]

11 minutes ago, Bryn said:

Probs not a lot of point in talking to someone who doesn’t want all children to have equal opportunities.

 

Go have a tantrum somewhere else.

That’s quite the extrapolation. The sums don’t add up on the idea that removing private school charitable status = magic money for state schools.  Politics of envy nonsense.  
 

I’m all for increasing funding for schools and with a fairer funding formula.  My kids last primary school in the UK was seriously underfunded.  Just don’t pretend tens of thousands more kids moving into the state sector is going to help.

[Jon the Hat]

3 hours ago, ozleicester said:

In Australia, the Government schools are called public, and independent/religious are called private. So government schools have had half the increase that is going to the rich privates.

Is that per pupil or total spend? 

[Jon the Hat]

31 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

The continuing story of the wealthy saying... "we'll move", "we'll stop sending our kids to private schools", "we'll stop earning millions" if you tax us.

Total bullshit... tax them and tax them HARD.

In the 50s, when inflation was a problem, governments instituted increased taxes to slow spending...so that the extra income benefited all, rather than the modern concept of interest rate increases which ONLY benefit the shareholders.

 

The majority of people who send their kids to private schools are professionals who are both working.  20% fee increase on 2 or 3 kids and they can’t do it.  Also worth noting UK government makes no other contribution to private schooling, unlike in Australia where they receive similar funding per pupil to state schools I believe?

[ozleicester]

7 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Is that per pupil or total spend? 

From 2012 to 2021, per student funding to independent and Catholic schools rose by 34% and 31% respectively, while funding to public schools increased by just 17%, according to parliamentary library data 

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

From 2012 to 2021, per student funding to independent and Catholic schools rose by 34% and 31% respectively, while funding to public schools increased by just 17%, according to parliamentary library data 

Thanks I managed to find the article.  Thanks Tony Abbott! Twat.

[dsr-burnley]

10 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

They'd be exempt from some taxes. 

State schools are already exempt from taxes, apart from VAT, and private schools can't reclaim VAT either.  What other taxes did you have in mind?

[Raj]

My nephews school is closed til mid September  because of the roof fiasco.

It's not like the schools have been shut for 2 months to get these issues looked into.🙄

Useless.

[Bellend Sebastian]

I'm no expert on court cases but I've already said that the judge's comments in the 'Tiktok murders' case feel unusual and I've been reflecting on why.

 

I think it's partly down to so many of the high profile cases we read about (and refer to in the "Absolute c***s of our time" being about folk that are from terrible backgrounds or are just plain wired wrong in a way that there's a weary inevitability about them doing something terrible. This case isn't like that though - it's about people making bad choices, getting seduced by a particular lifestyle and failing to notice that it's ultimately de-humanising them in a way where they end up doing those same terrible things.

 

Anyway, have a read:

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/every-searing-word-judge-told-8722402

 

I really think there's a cautionary tale here. I've seen and heard of examples of weird narcissism both in school and the workplace where a certain sort of social media engagement looks like the common factor. I'm not suggesting that these folk are all going to end up killing people but they are f***ing weird and they do stuff that sometimes suggests that their view of themselves and their place in the world is going a bit wrong 

 

[leicsmac]

15 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

I'm no expert on court cases but I've already said that the judge's comments in the 'Tiktok murders' case feel unusual and I've been reflecting on why.

 

I think it's partly down to so many of the high profile cases we read about (and refer to in the "Absolute c***s of our time" being about folk that are from terrible backgrounds or are just plain wired wrong in a way that there's a weary inevitability about them doing something terrible. This case isn't like that though - it's about people making bad choices, getting seduced by a particular lifestyle and failing to notice that it's ultimately de-humanising them in a way where they end up doing those same terrible things.

 

Anyway, have a read:

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/every-searing-word-judge-told-8722402

 

I really think there's a cautionary tale here. I've seen and heard of examples of weird narcissism both in school and the workplace where a certain sort of social media engagement looks like the common factor. I'm not suggesting that these folk are all going to end up killing people but they are f***ing weird and they do stuff that sometimes suggests that their view of themselves and their place in the world is going a bit wrong 

 

An incredibly sad yet all too common incidence of someone with power and influence thinking they can treat other people as things without consequences.

[Daggers]

On 01/09/2023 at 20:15, Bellend Sebastian said:

Yeah, unusually so.

 

Words to the effect of "you are dreadful narcissists who have immersed yourselves in a world of shit".

 

I could be a judge, we all like judging people

You would make a bad judge. I would be a brilliant judge, I judge everyone here all the time. And they are all guilty. You are all guilty. Everyone is guilty.

[Captain...]

The rise and fall of the influencer will be an interesting case study in years to come. Those that initially rose to fame on social media through being genuinely interesting, engaging and knowledgeable paved the way for the fame hungry desperados. Not a new phenomenon, it's just mirroring the reality TV surge, but one that married to the regulation free world of social media is just a breeding ground for the obsessed and unscrupulous. 

 

Only this morning there was an article about a parenting influencer that has been arrested for child abuse, there was the nutrition influencer (raw food diet) that seemingly died due to her poor diet not that long ago. Andrew Tate! The numerous thoughtless, reckless, downright dangerous stunts and crazes that we read about on a weekly basis. 

 

At what point do the social media platforms need to take greater responsibility for the content they host?

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The rise and fall of the influencer will be an interesting case study in years to come. Those that initially rose to fame on social media through being genuinely interesting, engaging and knowledgeable paved the way for the fame hungry desperados. Not a new phenomenon, it's just mirroring the reality TV surge, but one that married to the regulation free world of social media is just a breeding ground for the obsessed and unscrupulous. 

 

Only this morning there was an article about a parenting influencer that has been arrested for child abuse, there was the nutrition influencer (raw food diet) that seemingly died due to her poor diet not that long ago. Andrew Tate! The numerous thoughtless, reckless, downright dangerous stunts and crazes that we read about on a weekly basis. 

 

At what point do the social media platforms need to take greater responsibility for the content they host?

About ten years ago.

 

But seeing as such controversy makes money that can then buy power, I don't see them being held to account in much real fashion anytime soon.

[ozleicester]

17 minutes ago, Daggers said:

You would make a bad judge. I would be a brilliant judge, I judge everyone here all the time. And they are all guilty. You are all guilty. Everyone is guilty.

 

[HighPeakFox]

On 01/09/2023 at 21:59, Grebfromgrebland said:

Since 2010 government funding for state schools has dropped by over 50% while government funding for state schools has doubled.

Can I assume that you just wrote the wrong word here?

[Daggers]

Today's Observer summary of the Truss era - it's like recalling a dream where you are unsure if it actually happened because the whole thing was just so absurd.

[Guesty]

There's this festival in America called Burning Man. It started off as a sort of hippy type festival where people would drive into the middle of the Nevada desert and be self sufficient for week.

 

Now it's been commercialised and is basically just a bunch of Instagram influencers and rich people renting expensive RV's where they burn big structures (and apparently take a load of drugs).

 

Last night it chucked it down in the middle of the desert (it's also in a dried up lake bed). The sand turned to mud and all these people who are claiming they could survive the apocalypse are now trapped, upset and the toilets can't be cleaned. The government has had to declare a emergency and warn people the shelter in place. 

 

Edited 3 September 2023 by Guesty

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

On 02/09/2023 at 09:50, Jon the Hat said:

That’s quite the extrapolation. The sums don’t add up on the idea that removing private school charitable status = magic money for state schools.  Politics of envy nonsense.  
 

I’m all for increasing funding for schools and with a fairer funding formula.  My kids last primary school in the UK was seriously underfunded.  Just don’t pretend tens of thousands more kids moving into the state sector is going to help.

I went to both state and private schools so have a perspective on both (I had a scholarship to private school, my parents couldn't have afforded it).

 

I can't really see any reason why private schools should exist. They are the equivalent of pay to win in the games world. They are able to suck up all the best teachers and equipment and give attendees huge advantages in terms of their access to quality teaching and materials, and inevitably also their links to Oxbridge etc. There's a lot of 'who you know' involved. It's the complete opposite of meritocracy. 

 

One of the things that's struck me in recent years is how big the private school advantage has become for those whose parents have the means to pay. Looking at state Vs private funding in recent years makes it looks almost intentional the way that the Tories have increased this advantage.

[Daggers]

6 minutes ago, Sideshow Faes said:

They are able to suck up all the best teachers

This is the only thing I'd take issue with.

 

In my humble experience, they don't. Clearly, they can attract very well qualified people within their sphere of study - but that doesn't equate to them being 'best'. The reason people tend to work at them is more to do with the lack of behaviour problems, smaller class sizes, lighter timetables, and better resourced classrooms.

 

Invariably, private schools offer quite poor conditions of service and have had exceptionally dubious hiring practices across the decades, frequently being havens for damaged individuals and paedophiles...something that becomes almost endemic in private British-style schools abroad.

 

No unions, loose background checks, on the spot firings when questioning leadership decisions - I know colleagues who found working in the private system an horrendous experience. Plus, I've seen a fair few attempt swapping private for state education and I can't remember one who wasn't a complete disaster at the chalkface; invariably weak and unable to enthuse a bottom set on a Friday afternoon.

 

There's plenty to dislike about the inequity going on here - but staffing probably isn't one to focus on.