Also in the News - Part 2

[ClaphamFox]

13 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Can we please stop talking about the trans issue. It's been manufactured by the Tory party and right wing media to cause arguments among the population and distract from far more important and relevant issues.

 

It's divide and rule.

 

Sad thing is that it's working like a treat on this forum.

This is an absurd take. Quite incredible. 
 

The ‘trans issue’ has not been created by the Tory party. It is being debated across the developed world. It is occurring because in recent years certain activists and campaigners have aggressively pushed the idea that subjective notions of ‘gender’ should supersede biological sex in certain areas of law, public policy and sports, etc. In response, others have argued that this is absurd and will lead to the degradation of women’s rights and the promotion unnecessary and irreversible medical procedures on vulnerable people. This discussion is playing out in schools, universities and workplaces across Europe, America, Australasia and certain parts of Asia. Many of the leading voices - on both sides - are on the left. 
 

It’s a highly contested and fraught area in which conversations frequently become ill-tempered and very personal. I completely understand why some people wish it would just go away. But I’m afraid the claim that it is the invention of the Tory party is ridiculous. 

[Parafox]

On 06/09/2023 at 13:47, FoxesDeb said:

I use the gents now if it's empty and there's a queue for the ladies!

 

It's fine by me, but on one occasion I had to use the ladies as the gents was occupied and I was in dire need. When I came out of the cubicle a woman was there and she was quite abrupt and almost accusing me of being a creepy voyeur before I could explain. 

 

If a woman came out of a gents would a man have a similar reaction?

Edited 7 September 2023 by Parafox

[Wymsey]

 

 

[tom27111]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

 

 

 

I've said it before on here, but Nick is such a lovely bloke.

 

Really hoping he's going to get the all clear.

 

When I was at uni, doing sports journalism, based in Luton, I had to compile a portfolio of stories relevant to the local area.

 

I contacted Nick, who's obviously linked to Luton Town (League 2 at the time after fighting back) and asked for an interview and some advice.

 

He was more than happy to oblige. 

 

I'll always be grateful to him for that. Nothing in it for him, just a genuine passion for sport and journalism. 

[Voll Blau]

Excited for the inevitable showdown between Daniel Khalife and police/SAS. That's gonna be the kind of rolling news binge that makes me glad I'm only a two-minute jog from the nearest offie.

[Wymsey]

He'll definitely be found.

 

For all we know, if he gets found out, he might threaten to kill himself.

 

Remember a case back in around January when a woman and her partner from London (iirc) were on the run whilst fatally dumping their newborn baby in some shed somewhere - but both were eventually got found.

 

Not sure if they got sentenced for their baby's death, mind.

Edited 7 September 2023 by Wymsey

[tom27111]

3 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

He'll definitely be found.

 

For all we know, if he gets found out, he might threaten to kill himself.

 

Remember a case back in around January when a woman and her partner from London (iirc) were on the run whilst fatally dumping their newborn baby in some shed somewhere - but both were eventually got found.

 

Not sure if they got sentenced for their baby's death, mind.

 

What a weird case that was. I've just had to Google it to find out what happened.

 

A daughter of an aristocrat and a convicted sex offender.

 

Both on remand, trial due to start early next year.

[Tommy G]

34 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Excited for the inevitable showdown between Daniel Khalife and police/SAS. That's gonna be the kind of rolling news binge that makes me glad I'm only a two-minute jog from the nearest offie.

Should be a bit like Raoul Moat v2

[rachhere]

25 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

He'll definitely be found.

 

For all we know, if he gets found out, he might threaten to kill himself.

 

Remember a case back in around January when a woman and her partner from London (iirc) were on the run whilst fatally dumping their newborn baby in some shed somewhere - but both were eventually got found.

 

Not sure if they got sentenced for their baby's death, mind.

But if he’s working for Iran isn’t it quite possible he has a state backing here looking to help him escape the country… or have I watched too many episodes of Spooks over the years!

[FoyleFox]

6 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Should be a bit like Raoul Moat v2

Hopefully Gazza isn't on his way! 

[tom27111]

It just makes me laugh that this guy has escaped and its the governments fault.

 

Yeah, the government are totally and utterly incompetent, I'm not doubting that, but EVERYTHING is now their fault.

 

Prisoners escaped? Government

Schools built in the 70's? Government

Bit hot for a few days? Government

[Wymsey]

12 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

Hopefully Gazza isn't on his way! 

Tbh, am slightly surprised that he himself is still alive after his personal issues.

[StanSP]

13 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

It just makes me laugh that this guy has escaped and its the governments fault.

 

Yeah, the government are totally and utterly incompetent, I'm not doubting that, but EVERYTHING is now their fault.

 

Prisoners escaped? Government

Schools built in the 70's? Government

Bit hot for a few days? Government

Maybe not direct but they are at hand for the sheer destruction of public services and resources within them. Under-staffed and under-paid and under-resourced. Which then has a knock on effect on what services can be delivered... 

[Daggers]

17 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

It just makes me laugh that this guy has escaped and its the governments fault.

 

Yeah, the government are totally and utterly incompetent, I'm not doubting that, but EVERYTHING is now their fault.

 

Prisoners escaped? Government

Schools built in the 70's? Government

Bit hot for a few days? Government

Destroyed funding and the structure of the prison service leading to minimum wage related staff shortages - all on the Tories

 

Schools rebuilding programme scrapped by Cameron and Gove, and followed by successive real terms cuts to budgets - all on the Tories

 

Weather? I’ve no idea what this references, but I’m happy to swear it’s Thatcher’s fault when we run out of toilet paper - so fvck yeh, bloody Tories. 

[dsr-burnley]

11 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Maybe not direct but they are at hand for the sheer destruction of public services and resources within them. Under-staffed and under-paid and under-resourced. Which then has a knock on effect on what services can be delivered... 

There is no solution to public services being under-resourced.  The figures show that public spending is as high as it has ever been on education, social services, state benefits generally, and far higher on the NHS, but everything is still under-resourced because there is always more they can spend it on.  Tax as a proportion of GDP is higher now than at any time since the war.  They could tax everyone at 100% and everywhere would still be under-resourced.  Increasing taxes has very little to do with improving services,.

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

This is an absurd take. Quite incredible. 
 

The ‘trans issue’ has not been created by the Tory party. It is being debated across the developed world. It is occurring because in recent years certain activists and campaigners have aggressively pushed the idea that subjective notions of ‘gender’ should supersede biological sex in certain areas of law, public policy and sports, etc. In response, others have argued that this is absurd and will lead to the degradation of women’s rights and the promotion unnecessary and irreversible medical procedures on vulnerable people. This discussion is playing out in schools, universities and workplaces across Europe, America, Australasia and certain parts of Asia. Many of the leading voices - on both sides - are on the left. 
 

It’s a highly contested and fraught area in which conversations frequently become ill-tempered and very personal. I completely understand why some people wish it would just go away. But I’m afraid the claim that it is the invention of the Tory party is ridiculous. 

And let's not forget the body count from violence against and murder of trans people in account of their identity, as well as legislative and other discrimination, as an adjutant to this, please.

 

Like it or not, there are people on that side of the debate who go from "absurd" to "abomination that deserves to die" and can and have acted upon the sentiment both legislatively and actually, and that is a key part of why the other side think and act as they do. They can't simply be disavowed as not part of the issue.

 

And to forestall an obvious response, violence against women on account of their identity happens often too, but that happens most often because of impressing superiority or out of some idiotic past slight not because the person believes they are themselves abhorrent inherently. Apples and oranges.

 

NB. As mentioned earlier, there's a significant demographic overlap between those who would visit violence against both women and trans women anyway, so we might want to start there.

[leicsmac]

43 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

There is no solution to public services being under-resourced.  The figures show that public spending is as high as it has ever been on education, social services, state benefits generally, and far higher on the NHS, but everything is still under-resourced because there is always more they can spend it on.  Tax as a proportion of GDP is higher now than at any time since the war.  They could tax everyone at 100% and everywhere would still be under-resourced.  Increasing taxes has very little to do with improving services,.

If this were accurate... then why the difference between public services now and c.2000-2005 in terms of quality?

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

There is no solution to public services being under-resourced.  The figures show that public spending is as high as it has ever been on education, social services, state benefits generally, and far higher on the NHS, but everything is still under-resourced because there is always more they can spend it on.  Tax as a proportion of GDP is higher now than at any time since the war.  They could tax everyone at 100% and everywhere would still be under-resourced.  Increasing taxes has very little to do with improving services,.

Of course there are those that avoid paying taxes.

[ozleicester]

another reason why we need to limit the power of the rich.... nationalise now

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/07/elon-musk-ordered-starlink-turned-off-ukraine-offensive-biography

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, ozleicester said:

another reason why we need to limit the power of the rich.... nationalise now

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/07/elon-musk-ordered-starlink-turned-off-ukraine-offensive-biography

Its alarming that one person can have this level of power, however I am not convinced Governments have much better history on this stuff, particularly the US make decisions for their own reasons.

[leicsmac]

49 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Its alarming that one person can have this level of power, however I am not convinced Governments have much better history on this stuff, particularly the US make decisions for their own reasons.

It's a fair point tbh. Both suffer from a lack of accountability.

[ozleicester]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Its alarming that one person can have this level of power, however I am not convinced Governments have much better history on this stuff, particularly the US make decisions for their own reasons.

Laughable comment.... while im the first to hold the failures of governments and particualarly the US/UK/AU to ridicule and exposure... the thought that we are better off having life and death decisions for entire societies made by the likes of Musk, Reinhardt, or even Sugar is so absurd i cant believe im having to respond.

 

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

It's a fair point tbh. Both suffer from a lack of accountability.

It is just not.

Beyond stupid comment... but then i guess there are "some bad people on both sides" 

 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

 

It is just not.

Beyond stupid comment... but then i guess there are "some bad people on both sides" 

 

Allow me to clarify - unaccountable private individuals with power are a massive problem that needs addressing, but then governments sometimes wield similar unaccountable power and bad things happen there too, so more accountability all round is needed rather than focus on just one or the other.

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

13 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

This is an absurd take. Quite incredible. 
 

The ‘trans issue’ has not been created by the Tory party. It is being debated across the developed world. It is occurring because in recent years certain activists and campaigners have aggressively pushed the idea that subjective notions of ‘gender’ should supersede biological sex in certain areas of law, public policy and sports, etc. In response, others have argued that this is absurd and will lead to the degradation of women’s rights and the promotion unnecessary and irreversible medical procedures on vulnerable people. This discussion is playing out in schools, universities and workplaces across Europe, America, Australasia and certain parts of Asia. Many of the leading voices - on both sides - are on the left. 
 

It’s a highly contested and fraught area in which conversations frequently become ill-tempered and very personal. I completely understand why some people wish it would just go away. But I’m afraid the claim that it is the invention of the Tory party is ridiculous. 

It wasn't an absurd take.

It is an issue people have opinions on but was largely a side issue with a respectful debate. Yes there are small numbers of trans activists, as there are small numbers of activists about any subject, but it's no coincidence that it's been heavily pushed as a significant issue by right wing papers, as another 'culture war' topic. 

In reality is an issue that requires careful thought and affects a very small minority of people. But you wouldn't know that for the frothing headlines and frankly disgraceful language used by the right wing media.

[Alf Bentley]

9 hours ago, rachhere said:

But if he’s working for Iran isn’t it quite possible he has a state backing here looking to help him escape the country… or have I watched too many episodes of Spooks over the years!

 

It might sounds fantastical, but it wouldn't surprise me if he had left the country with expert assistance, given his alleged Iranian connections.

 

It's hard to believe that he didn't have expert assistance outside the jail (and maybe someone corrupt inside it).  Can't imagine he just opportunistically strapped himself onto the bottom of the food truck, hoping he wouldn't be found and that it would stop somewhere convenient outside the prison and that he wouldn't be noticed emerging from beneath the chassis in his chef's trousers. 

 

I reckon Iranian secret services bribed a corrupt prison officer and had done reconnaissance to identify a location where he could emerge unseen - with an accomplice waiting with a fake passport and a change of clothing.  The truck even stopped at Wandsworth station apparently.....and I don't even watch Spooks! 

 

9 hours ago, FoyleFox said:

Hopefully Gazza isn't on his way! 

 

You jest, I presume.....but it sounds as if he might be on his way, as he was out and about yesterday kissing Prince William in Bournemouth Prêt-à-Manger:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-66743220 

 

I'm hearing rumours that he'd gone down to Prêt to get his chicken supplies in for Khalife.