Also in the News - Part 2

[Daggers]

4 hours ago, Dunge said:

Yeah, I’m not sure whether Daggers wants a reply from me or not but I don’t really want thing to descend into a massive argument.

It’s clear the majority here agree more with him on the matter anyway.

I'm not sure if Dunge wants me to acknowledge their post or not, but I'm not prepared to get into an online shit flinging fest either.

 

I do want to know why I spent 90 minutes preparing a sumptuous feast, cracked open the beers, and just sat down to enjoy my evening of football - only to then realise it isn't Wednesday. 

[Parafox]

Girl found dead at hospital was let down by care staff, inquest finds - Leicestershire Live (leicestermercury.co.uk)

 

This makes me very sad and very, very angry, having a daughter who has been through the MH system and has been badly let down.

 

The experiences I have had both professionally, and what I have seen during her times in MH wards and secure units leaves me in no doubt this girls death was preventable. My daughter saw the body of a girl in the next room to her whom she had befriended. She had hung herself. My daughter had tried several times to bring attention to staff, as the girl had repeatedly told my daughter what she intended to do. There seemed to be very little intervention although I wasn't there, so I don't know the sequence of events.

 

We know, don't we, that MH care is in dire straits and is seriously underfunded and is always the Cinderella service of the NHS when it should absolutely be a priority of care.

 

There's A&E for medical emergencies. Why not an equivalent for mental health emergencies?

 

Lives are being lost unnecessarily. 

 

It's a scandal and no-one in Gov is addressing it.

 

 

Edited 19 September 2023 by Parafox

[Wymsey]

It must be fake, surely..

https://news.sky.com/story/mummified-alien-corpses-are-from-single-skeletons-and-were-not-assembled-mexican-doctors-say-12964858?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

Edited 19 September 2023 by Wymsey

[foxile5]

12 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

It must be fake, surely..

https://news.sky.com/story/mummified-alien-corpses-are-from-single-skeletons-and-were-not-assembled-mexican-doctors-say-12964858?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised anymore.

 

I'm not going to point a direct finger but **** me has the world gotten a bit...odd since we turned on the large haydron collider.

 

[Super_horns]

Deleted .

 

Discussed elsewhere .

Edited 19 September 2023 by Super_horns

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, Parafox said:

 

There's A&E for medical emergencies. Why not an equivalent for mental health emergencies?

 

Well there kinda is - as one who has availed myself of the crisis team on more than one occasion. 

 

Even then, it's a tired person being dragged out of bed at an ungodly hour all on their own and with precious little they can do as they can't admit you because there are no rooms or staff to hand.

 

It's only those of us who see this service first hand who know or care how badly funded it is - and no one else gives a toss. Bottom of the pile, fruitcakes like me. Bottom of the pile.

[Grebfromgrebland]

This country lost it's humanity in 2010 and since then it's been a race to dismantle every institution that made it tick 

[WigstonWanderer]

3 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

This country lost it's humanity in 2010 and since then it's been a race to dismantle every institution that made it tick 

In addition to all the problems that most of the world face, the UK has its own special post war challenges caused but the decline of the British empire. Just as it seemed that it was reinventing itself as a modern, forward looking society, showing confident leadership within a larger union of western economies, the last vestiges of those clinging to the imperial past have dragged it back into decline, and somehow convinced the masses to go along with them.

Edited 20 September 2023 by WigstonWanderer

[FoxesFan#1]

9 hours ago, foxile5 said:

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised anymore.

 

I'm not going to point a direct finger but **** me has the world gotten a bit...odd since we turned on the large haydron collider.

 

IMHO We’d be better off ignoring the news all together 

 

Trouble is there’s some truth and real

stories at a local level but the national news is getting more absurd by the day.

I think it’s less about the world going mad but more about the pitiful stories being made up. 
 

I imagine 99% of journalists are no more than content editors now rehashing info from a central database.

 

Old Shakey did say the world is a stage after all!  

That’s William, not Craig BTW!

[fox_up_north]

I see the decision by OPEC (Saudi and Russia, mainly) to cut oil production is now biting properly. Expect prices to go back up near £2 a litre.

 

Oh, but you're needed back in the office and the trains don't work properly. 

 

Does my head in - we need to stop making ourselves beholden to these people. 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, FoxesFan#1 said:

Old Shakey did say the world is a stage after all!  

 

He also highlighted environmental priorities, saying "All I wanna do is join the happy crowd behind the green door"

 

1 hour ago, FoxesFan#1 said:

That’s William, not Craig BTW!

 

Oh, sorry! I thought you meant Shakin' Stevens.

[Dunge]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

I see the decision by OPEC (Saudi and Russia, mainly) to cut oil production is now biting properly. Expect prices to go back up near £2 a litre.

 

Oh, but you're needed back in the office and the trains don't work properly. 

 

Does my head in - we need to stop making ourselves beholden to these people. 

Hybrid working should be the future - some time in the office and some at home.

 

It’s highly frustrating that it’s not being pushed as well because it’s one of the few environmental policies that would be embraced by the public. It’s an open goal that people are refusing to score.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Hybrid working should be the future - some time in the office and some at home.

 

It’s highly frustrating that it’s not being pushed as well because it’s one of the few environmental policies that would be embraced by the public. It’s an open goal that people are refusing to score.

Vested interests making too much off renting office space.

[ClaphamFox]

26 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Hybrid working should be the future - some time in the office and some at home.

 

It’s highly frustrating that it’s not being pushed as well because it’s one of the few environmental policies that would be embraced by the public. It’s an open goal that people are refusing to score.

I moved from west London to a village in Oxfordshire during the pandemic. At the time it seemed like my company was going to embrace a highly flexible approach to hybrid working, but they've since reverted to insisting that everybody is in the office at least three days a week. I'm currently allowed to do just two because I have a very young child, but at some point I'll have to revert to commuting in three days a week (it's two hours each way).

 

A neighbour of mine also moved from west London to Oxfordshire around the same time we did. By coincidence he works for my previous company. When he moved he was told he'd probably only have to go in once every few weeks (most of his team is in the US so he doesn't really need to go into the London office). However a few months ago the company insisted that all employees have to be in the office four days a week, without exception. He's spending four hours a day commuting four days a week - it's killing him...

Edited 20 September 2023 by ClaphamFox

[Zear0]

It's such a challenging situation to manage when looking at the needs of the individual and that of the organisation.

Before I'm labelled as the Dickensian workhouse owner, I want to state I run a small business (~25 staff, it varies as they're all zero-hour (not as wicked as it sounds)) and we've gone fully remote.

Following the WFH period of the pandemic, we undertook a business review which identified clearly that, compared to pre-pandemic office working, bookable hours increased 22% (makes sense as flexi working enable earlier/later working) whilst measurable output of our services declined 17%.  I didn't expect the reduction in productivity to be as significant as it was.  Due to us being a services organisation, the increase in bookable hours is, perversely, beneficial from a turnover perspective, but not everyone is as fortunate.  Combined with not having to pay office rent anymore it's made a massive increase in business performance so I'm loving it.

I am a paid-up member of several technical and business research institutes that share performance data.  The similarities between my drop in productivity and thousands, including many multi-nationals, of other organisations is extremely strong and is frankly beyond arguing against.  For organisations that don't have the luxury of getting away with charging by the hour, which is most, the reduction in productivity is crippling for them.  Given the grim financial state of the economy and the end of cheap debt, clawing back productivity is companies number one priority.

This will be the forever argument between needs of the individual and business.  Most people's contracts state where they're expected to work and if people decided to unilaterally move far away, I'm afraid I don't have a great deal of sympathy.  One of my customers, based in Oxford coincidentally, said he'd had staff members move back home to Scotland in some instances causing some fairly major conflict when they were expected to return.  There are too many examples of people thinking COVID ways of working will continue and its plain ignorance.

We all love the flexible nature of remote working, but unfortunately the data is in that it makes organisations less productive.  Everyone you speak to will say "I'm more productive at home), which is the case for some people, but across the demographic the evidence sadly points to the contrary.  Hybrid is the dream for me as it's so hard to engage and develop staff, particularly new staff, when fully remote.  Sadly, I'm a miser and won't be paying office rents ever again if I can help it!

Like it or loathe it, the data is in on remote working and it's not landing in favour of employees unfortunately.  There are clearly instances, as above re: US contacts, where companies are just being belligerent, but people need to get used to going back to the old ways.

Edited 20 September 2023 by Zear0
Spelling

[LCFCCHRIS]

2 hours ago, Zear0 said:

It's such a challenging situation to manage when looking at the needs of the individual and that of the organisation.

Before I'm labelled as the Dickensian workhouse owner, I want to state I run a small business (~25 staff, it varies as they're all zero-hour (not as wicked as it sounds)) and we've gone fully remote.

Following the WFH period of the pandemic, we undertook a business review which identified clearly that, compared to pre-pandemic office working, bookable hours increased 22% (makes sense as flexi working enable earlier/later working) whilst measurable output of our services declined 17%.  I didn't expect the reduction in productivity to be as significant as it was.  Due to us being a services organisation, the increase in bookable hours is, perversely, beneficial from a turnover perspective, but not everyone is as fortunate.  Combined with not having to pay office rent anymore it's made a massive increase in business performance so I'm loving it.

I am a paid-up member of several technical and business research institutes that share performance data.  The similarities between my drop in productivity and thousands, including many multi-nationals, of other organisations is extremely strong and is frankly beyond arguing against.  For organisations that don't have the luxury of getting away with charging by the hour, which is most, the reduction in productivity is crippling for them.  Given the grim financial state of the economy and the end of cheap debt, clawing back productivity is companies number one priority.

This will be the forever argument between needs of the individual and business.  Most people's contracts state where they're expected to work and if people decided to unilaterally move far away, I'm afraid I don't have a great deal of sympathy.  One of my customers, based in Oxford coincidentally, said he'd had staff members move back home to Scotland in some instances causing some fairly major conflict when they were expected to return.  There are too many examples of people thinking COVID ways of working will continue and its plain ignorance.

We all love the flexible nature of remote working, but unfortunately the data is in that it makes organisations less productive.  Everyone you speak to will say "I'm more productive at home), which is the case for some people, but across the demographic the evidence sadly points to the contrary.  Hybrid is the dream for me as it's so hard to engage and develop staff, particularly new staff, when fully remote.  Sadly, I'm a miser and won't be paying office rents ever again if I can help it!

Like it or loathe it, the data is in on remote working and it's not landing in favour of employees unfortunately.  There are clearly instances, as above re: US contacts, where companies are just being belligerent, but people need to get used to going back to the old ways.

Always hear this about “working from home makes me more productive” but I’d always suspected it wouldn’t be the case. 
 

I’ve got friends that work from home and they take massive lunch breaks. Another mate does building work on his house during his work hours and on those days only attends meetings whilst pretending to work the rest of the time. 
 

Used to work with a guy who lived in Scotland and was in the office one day a week, you could never ever get him on the phone when you needed his input. 
 

Maybe for some people they are more productive however (a 2 hour commute is hardly going to inspire you to work harder). 

[Bordersfox]

2 hours ago, Zear0 said:

It's such a challenging situation to manage when looking at the needs of the individual and that of the organisation.

Before I'm labelled as the Dickensian workhouse owner, I want to state I run a small business (~25 staff, it varies as they're all zero-hour (not as wicked as it sounds)) and we've gone fully remote.

Following the WFH period of the pandemic, we undertook a business review which identified clearly that, compared to pre-pandemic office working, bookable hours increased 22% (makes sense as flexi working enable earlier/later working) whilst measurable output of our services declined 17%.  I didn't expect the reduction in productivity to be as significant as it was.  Due to us being a services organisation, the increase in bookable hours is, perversely, beneficial from a turnover perspective, but not everyone is as fortunate.  Combined with not having to pay office rent anymore it's made a massive increase in business performance so I'm loving it.

I am a paid-up member of several technical and business research institutes that share performance data.  The similarities between my drop in productivity and thousands, including many multi-nationals, of other organisations is extremely strong and is frankly beyond arguing against.  For organisations that don't have the luxury of getting away with charging by the hour, which is most, the reduction in productivity is crippling for them.  Given the grim financial state of the economy and the end of cheap debt, clawing back productivity is companies number one priority.

This will be the forever argument between needs of the individual and business.  Most people's contracts state where they're expected to work and if people decided to unilaterally move far away, I'm afraid I don't have a great deal of sympathy.  One of my customers, based in Oxford coincidentally, said he'd had staff members move back home to Scotland in some instances causing some fairly major conflict when they were expected to return.  There are too many examples of people thinking COVID ways of working will continue and its plain ignorance.

We all love the flexible nature of remote working, but unfortunately the data is in that it makes organisations less productive.  Everyone you speak to will say "I'm more productive at home), which is the case for some people, but across the demographic the evidence sadly points to the contrary.  Hybrid is the dream for me as it's so hard to engage and develop staff, particularly new staff, when fully remote.  Sadly, I'm a miser and won't be paying office rents ever again if I can help it!

Like it or loathe it, the data is in on remote working and it's not landing in favour of employees unfortunately.  There are clearly instances, as above re: US contacts, where companies are just being belligerent, but people need to get used to going back to the old ways.

A fair and reasonable post and I'm a leftie,

 - overall I think hybrid where possible can foster the best of both worlds.  Some flexibility but also advantages for training, collaborative working and so on.  My wife is fully remote but chooses to go into the office once a week for those very reasons.  

 

That's said, I don't believe in a zero sum game of simply looking at productivity. Of course it really important, business needs to make money.  But remote or hybrid working has advantages beyond mere productivity in terms of worker well being, being more family (and therefore in general terms more female) friendly and flexible for workers from more diverse or unusual backgrounds. That adds value to a business, new or different outlooks and perspectives and worker retention, hiring and training new workers costs a fortune.   

 

I'm naturally suspicious of any studies on productivity undertaken for or by business interests, not saying the ones you refer to are but just in general terms.  I've worked for big organisations, small organisations and have run my own small business and the king in his castle complex absolutely does exist with the boss, owner or middle management who want bums on seats to fuel their own ego and feudal outlook rather than for any productivity connected issues.  

 

We should also remember that the idea 

of fully remote for most businesses is a new one and over time you'd expect them to find ways of increasing productivity for their remote workers.  

[Footballwipe]

Obviously I don't have the experience that's been put so well above, but from personal experience I really, really enjoy being in the office.

 

Spending time with colleagues, getting answers instantly, building relationships and actual friendships, enjoying a chat with people about things. It's unmatched v Teams. It's been so noticeable this year, which has been the real first full year of concerted effort to get people in at least once a week where I work. The working relationships I have with those I see in person often far outweigh those I see once a month or less.

 

I wfh 2/3 days a week and my experience is personal but there really is something for me about being with my team that makes my job so much easier. I did enjoyed working from home during that covid period, and I do enjoy the benefits of working from home now, but it's the people for me.

 

There are extremes of both sides, from people who have vested interest in getting people back into offices, to those who outright hate an office environment (for whatever reason), but the balance is key, and what's best for the business/organisation you work for is also key.

[Dunge]

It can be an introvert/extrovert things as well though, can’t it? There will be plenty of introverts who know that making small talk with colleagues in an office is a really draining part of their day, while extroverts will be energised by it and struggle without it when working from home.

 

I often think that policy makers and a lot of directors tend to work on the basis that if we’re not being extroverted then we’re doing something wrong.

[Scotch]

17 hours ago, Parafox said:

Girl found dead at hospital was let down by care staff, inquest finds - Leicestershire Live (leicestermercury.co.uk)

 

This makes me very sad and very, very angry, having a daughter who has been through the MH system and has been badly let down.

 

The experiences I have had both professionally, and what I have seen during her times in MH wards and secure units leaves me in no doubt this girls death was preventable. My daughter saw the body of a girl in the next room to her whom she had befriended. She had hung herself. My daughter had tried several times to bring attention to staff, as the girl had repeatedly told my daughter what she intended to do. There seemed to be very little intervention although I wasn't there, so I don't know the sequence of events.

 

We know, don't we, that MH care is in dire straits and is seriously underfunded and is always the Cinderella service of the NHS when it should absolutely be a priority of care.

 

There's A&E for medical emergencies. Why not an equivalent for mental health emergencies?

 

Lives are being lost unnecessarily. 

 

It's a scandal and no-one in Gov is addressing it.

 

 

It really does have its moments of staggering incompetence. I get it's stretched and can't always be up to the level that's required but still, you can't make up how bad it is at times.

 

My sister has mental and physical disabilities, always has. Back when she was 16 (in her 30s now) she saw a MH expert after a particuarly bad break-down of her mental health. This woman prescribed medication and eventually recommended that she be admitted to a facility for a period of time. 

It was only last year, just before Christmas that my mum was contacted by NHS to be told that the doctor that treated my sister wasn't actually a doctor at all. She done a year studying in South Africa before coming here and forging her qualifications and went on to have a fairly good career all over the country for decades. This was who my sister was relying on. 

 

I can't remember the ladies name but she was jailed for it (she treated tens of thousands of people and was only caught when she started trying to change patients wills) and my mum recieved the internal report from the NHS that concluded although she never caused my sister any harm with how she treated her, the level of care was far below adequate.

[Tommy G]

5 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

I see the decision by OPEC (Saudi and Russia, mainly) to cut oil production is now biting properly. Expect prices to go back up near £2 a litre.

 

Oh, but you're needed back in the office and the trains don't work properly. 

 

Does my head in - we need to stop making ourselves beholden to these people. 

I think the hybrid working, WFH etc has run its course a bit - people will pile back into the office From October onwards when they have to put their heating on, having managed fine during the summer months. WFH is just a lifestyle upgrade for for a lot of people - granted there is a minority of people where WFH is no different to the traditional office, in my view the majority of the time its bull****. Anyone who thinks they are as productive at home is lying - and if you are anywhere near management level in a business you should be visible in said business. 

[fox_up_north]

I will freely admit that WFH and the like has had a demonstrable improvement in my lifestyle - I am fitter and healthier than I have ever been. I'm also still getting my job done. 

 

Given the recent loss of my father at a young age, who worked himself to death, I've no intention to repeat that. I'd much rather a 3 day a week society and those who really contribute - doctors, nurses, emergency services - get the best wages. Nobody needs a shiny new phone or car every year. We should all learn to live modest and happy lives. 

[Dunge]

2 hours ago, Tommy G said:

I think the hybrid working, WFH etc has run its course a bit - people will pile back into the office From October onwards when they have to put their heating on, having managed fine during the summer months. WFH is just a lifestyle upgrade for for a lot of people - granted there is a minority of people where WFH is no different to the traditional office, in my view the majority of the time its bull****. Anyone who thinks they are as productive at home is lying - and if you are anywhere near management level in a business you should be visible in said business. 

Where I work, we’ve been largely WFH since Covid. What you write here is demonstrably untrue for us.

[StanSP]

2 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Anyone who thinks they are as productive at home is lying

I'm way more productive at home in my job, compared to office.

 

I am not lying. 

[tom27111]

14 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I'm way more productive at home in my job, compared to office.

 

I am not lying.