Also in the News - Part 2

[urban.spaceman]

16 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Sacked and arrested in one day

Gifted absolutely everything in life - wealth, privilege, education, acting work, married to Billie ****ing Piper, gifted half a million quid to start his own political party, gifted a sitting MP after he was decided to be too dodgy for even the ****ING TORY PARTY, gifted a platform to spout his rants... And he ****ing squandered all of it.

 

I love a good downfall but they're especially sweeter when they did it all to themselves.

 

Billie's custody lawyer is rubbing their hands in glee. Good.

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Gifted absolutely everything in life - wealth, privilege, education, acting work, married to Billie ****ing Piper, gifted half a million quid to start his own political party, gifted a sitting MP after he was decided to be too dodgy for even the ****ING TORY PARTY, gifted a platform to spout his rants... And he ****ing squandered all of it.

 

I love a good downfall but they're especially sweeter when they did it all to themselves.

 

Billie's custody lawyer is rubbing their hands in glee. Good.

Here's hoping that also happens to the one (or ones) he's based his whole recent schtick on, too. Beginning with a certain New York civil case happening right now.

[Ian Nacho]

HS2 needs a criminal investigation. Absolutely disgusting. 

[Lionator]

29 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

HS2 needs a criminal investigation. Absolutely disgusting. 

There’s lots of land to sell off now so let’s see who it goes too before calling for something prematurely.

 

I actually thought this might cause a few problems for Labour, as journalists would ask them if they’d reinstate it, but it looks like Sunak has cancelled 6 platforms at Euston which would mean that it could never get reinstated anyway due to capacity issues. As well as selling off the land it was going to be built. It’s proper nuking/scorched earth territory. 

[Wymsey]

57 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

HS2 needs a criminal investigation. Absolutely disgusting. 

Billions that could've been used wisely in the NHS etc.

 

It seems like the Conservatives have very poor advisors when it comes to big-budget decisions.

[Jon the Hat]

17 hours ago, leicsmac said:

What really makes you think that the current party in power aren't both intent on doing that and PR savvy enough to get enough of the public to accept it by dressing it up as something else?

They might well want to, but they are neither competent enough nor do they have the time to do so.

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

They might well want to, but they are neither competent enough nor do they have the time to do so.

Given events in the last few years ago over the world, I'm discounting next to nothing in terms of what the powerful and the sociopathic are capable of.

 

Of course, I hope you're right though.

[Dunge]

I think scrapping the rest of HS2 given where we are is the right decision, but with two caveats:

 

1. Sunak promised the investment would instead be directed into improving the transport links in the M62 corridor. This is now expected instead, is of far greater benefit to the north, and he should be held to account for it. (I know, I know.)

2. If HS2 had started in the north we all know a final leg to London wouldn’t have been scrapped.

[Dunge]

On Laurence Fox, I remember seeing him on Question Time before his modern persona kicked off. He was right of centre but not unreasonable. Since then, he’s just got wackier and wackier by the month, more and more extreme until he’s reached… we’ll, whatever this is now.

 

He’s just a man who can’t stand being challenged.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Dunge said:

On Laurence Fox, I remember seeing him on Question Time before his modern persona kicked off. He was right of centre but not unreasonable. Since then, he’s just got wackier and wackier by the month, more and more extreme until he’s reached… we’ll, whatever this is now.

 

He’s just a man who can’t stand being challenged.

And where have we heard that before?

 

He's learned from some very capable exponents of that ego.

[Lionator]

4 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I think scrapping the rest of HS2 given where we are is the right decision, but with two caveats:

 

1. Sunak promised the investment would instead be directed into improving the transport links in the M62 corridor. This is now expected instead, is of far greater benefit to the north, and he should be held to account for it. (I know, I know.)

2. If HS2 had started in the north we all know a final leg to London wouldn’t have been scrapped.

A strong hard disagree on this. Once it got approved, it HAD to be built in full regardless of the costs. That the costs went up so much is a scandal in itself and for certain will involve profiteering from very rich people who probably have links to the governing party.

[Dunge]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

A strong hard disagree on this. Once it got approved, it HAD to be built in full regardless of the costs. That the costs went up so much is a scandal in itself and for certain will involve profiteering from very rich people who probably have links to the governing party.

I’m not convinced the whole project was ever going to bring the benefits people wanted from it. But now, with the skyrocketing prices (and good reason to believe they’d keep going up in various forms), I believe the risk/reward balance has tipped even further into the Stop territory.

 

I appreciate what people want - a modern public transportation system. If it could be done at the right price then I could go with that. But this is massive just to join up single parts of the country - it’s not even a network. I’d actually rather the money was spent upgrading broadband to do business and work differently, and investing in electric cars, because I’m not convinced people in the future will even be that keen on train travel.

[kenny]

10 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’m not convinced the whole project was ever going to bring the benefits people wanted from it. But now, with the skyrocketing prices (and good reason to believe they’d keep going up in various forms), I believe the risk/reward balance has tipped even further into the Stop territory.

 

I appreciate what people want - a modern public transportation system. If it could be done at the right price then I could go with that. But this is massive just to join up single parts of the country - it’s not even a network. I’d actually rather the money was spent upgrading broadband to do business and work differently, and investing in electric cars, because I’m not convinced people in the future will even be that keen on train travel.

I would be in support as long as the trains were driverless and fully automated.

 

If they are beholden to union action then I can't see the point in them.

[Lionator]

6 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’m not convinced the whole project was ever going to bring the benefits people wanted from it. But now, with the skyrocketing prices (and good reason to believe they’d keep going up in various forms), I believe the risk/reward balance has tipped even further into the Stop territory.

 

I appreciate what people want - a modern public transportation system. If it could be done at the right price then I could go with that. But this is massive just to join up single parts of the country - it’s not even a network. I’d actually rather the money was spent upgrading broadband to do business and work differently, and investing in electric cars, because I’m not convinced people in the future will even be that keen on train travel.

I am biased in the sense that I like trains, I like travelling by train in different countries, I think if done correctly that train transport is useful, reliable and preferential. I've used high speed rail in both Italy and France this year. Got from Florence to Rome rapidly, in a way that couldn't be replicated here. London is a great global city, Birmingham and Manchester have massively improved under their governance over the past few years. These places have massive economic potential. High speed rail is an integral part of building into that economic potential, spreading services outside of London and making it more attractive proposition to invest in these places. While some argue rural Britain needs more, a thriving Manchester would benefit everywhere in the North West, in a similar way to what a thriving Leeds would do in Yorkshire, let's not forget they lost HS2 too.

 

I think it's more symbolic than anything. Brexit was sold around this false nostalgia that we are an ambitious country who can stand on our own two feet. This has just proven that we are neither ambitious or can stand on our two feet. With all of the other infrastructure issues in this country, the future feels exceptionally bleak in what should be a time of economic recovery. 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I am biased in the sense that I like trains, I like travelling by train in different countries, I think if done correctly that train transport is useful, reliable and preferential. I've used high speed rail in both Italy and France this year. Got from Florence to Rome rapidly, in a way that couldn't be replicated here. London is a great global city, Birmingham and Manchester have massively improved under their governance over the past few years. These places have massive economic potential. High speed rail is an integral part of building into that economic potential, spreading services outside of London and making it more attractive proposition to invest in these places. While some argue rural Britain needs more, a thriving Manchester would benefit everywhere in the North West, in a similar way to what a thriving Leeds would do in Yorkshire, let's not forget they lost HS2 too.

 

I think it's more symbolic than anything. Brexit was sold around this false nostalgia that we are an ambitious country who can stand on our own two feet. This has just proven that we are neither ambitious or can stand on our two feet. With all of the other infrastructure issues in this country, the future feels exceptionally bleak in what should be a time of economic recovery. 

Will say it again: practically every other comparable country puts the UK to shame in terms of public transport infrastructure projects.

 

And they have reliable, safe and unionised ( @kenny ) workforce most of the time, too.

[Zear0]

From a selfish perspective, I couldn't give a flip about the trains as I've always lived rurally and my only train rides have been on GCR.  That said, this decision is utterly baffling to me.  The main pivot of the US recovery from COVID was the inflation reduction act where they spent an arm and a leg investing in infrastructure that recoups costs down the line and also supports national businesses.  If we actually paid up UK businesses (actual UK based firms not multi-nationals with offices here) to do this work, it's just money in the system that's a drop in the ocean compared to what the banks got through QE and would material improve the economy and people's lives.  They're not wrong in the sense that most of "The North (wonderfully patronising phrase)" would benefit more from other rail infrastructure programmes which is something the, private..., rail operators should have been doing in addition to HS2.  Funny how London didn't get a choice between HS2 and Crossrail for instance.

 

Hearing this announcement made in front of a sign saying "Long-Term Decision for a Brighter Future" is one of the more laughable things I've seen of late.

[weller54]

On 03/10/2023 at 19:24, Lionator said:

This will probably be removed but Braverman really is the lowest of the low, the thickest of the thick, a pathetic excuse of a human being. 

And I thought Priti Patel was an evil b*t**!!..

She's Mother Teresa compared with this fvcking nutcase!!!

[Daggers]

34 minutes ago, weller54 said:

And I thought Priti Patel was an evil b*t**!!..

She's Mother Teresa compared with this fvcking nutcase!!!

Mother Teresa was an evil bitch.

[urban.spaceman]

14 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Saint Teresa of Calcutta was a evil bitch.

Corrected.

[purpleronnie]

Even though I belive the money should have been spent on upgrading and adding new lines up north, HS2 should be built.  I do laugh when costs are mentioned but do people still talk about the costs of crossrail?  Nope because thats London.  Its another screw you to the north and those who believed in levelling up was real.

 

There has to be a fundamental change in the way infrastructure is dealt with in this country, you see Italy, Spain, France and numerous other countries with huge infrastructure projects getting completed quicker, and at lower costs than here.  Countries that already have infrastructures far superior to ours.  The projects in the UK are just turned into cash cows by contractors who simply sub contract them out then sit back whilst their open ended, no fixed price,  contacts bring in big profits.

 

 

[RoboFox]

This aged well. 

 

 

[Daggers]

The bigger picture is the historical approach to public transport in general. We lack the perspicacity to develop a coherent national approach to deliver in the present and aim for the future. We should have integrated systems spanning the country, powered by alternative energies, and at such a low cost at point of delivery that it incentivises everyone to ditch private transport.

 

The problem with governments and projects of this nature is that they are transitory. Ministers come and go like children using a merry-go-round, there’s never continuity. Consequently, you get overspends because of delayed decisions or decision reversals. The National Audit Office slammed Johnson’s government three year’s ago following 12 months of incompetence increasing the overall costs. It recommended then to scale back to whole thing to Birmingham.

 

I’m not one for the whole ‘we’ve spent this much so it should be completed’, sunk cost fallacies are precisely that. I was never in favour in the first place. The carnage it has wreaked on populations and the environment was enough to justify a more sensible approach and use of money, to me.

 

But then ‘sensible’ is not something we’ve been offered for thirteen godawful years.

 

 

[Daggers]

And, yes, perspicacity is a great word.

[Brizzle Fox]

1 hour ago, weller54 said:

And I thought Priti Patel was an evil b*t**!!..

She's Mother Teresa compared with this fvcking nutcase!!!

Not sure if it was on here or somewhere else but saw a comment that Cruella was what you get if you feed Priti after midnight...

 

Now need to go and watch Gremlins again.

[Bellend Sebastian]

My "special interest" in Penny Mordaunt has been well documented on here (too well? Not well enough? You decide) but that speech is going to make things VERY difficult between us