bovril Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said: Normalise telling these daft ***** where to shove their religion. Also please do 'normalise' telling overtly religious people in the UK to shove their religion up their arse and report back to us how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 quite funny watching English libs discover the Free Church of Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 11 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said: I did not, but the main takeaway was if someone ever asks me 'can a trans woman compete in female sport' laughing and saying 'NO' will land me in cancel territory!! That's a damn shame tbh because there's a fair bit more to it all than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 5 minutes ago, bovril said: Haven't seen her interview but sounds like she's made it clear it's her personal religious belief. Most of the things she's said are pretty much standard Christian morality and wouldn't have been seen as particularly controversial until quite recently. I might submit this is because until that "recently", the Church and the values it purports was the prime arbiter of morality in the UK (with that morality indeed being made law) and so it wasn't controversial because if someone made it controversial they were arrested or really socially "cancelled". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: I might submit this is because until that "recently", the Church and the values it purports was the prime arbiter of morality in the UK (with that morality indeed being made law) and so it wasn't controversial because if someone made it controversial they were arrested or really socially "cancelled". I mean I don't think it would have been that controversial for someone to hold those views until recently, not necessarily the views themselves that were probably outdated by the late 60s, at least the sex-before-marriage thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 2 minutes ago, bovril said: I mean I don't think it would have been that controversial for someone to hold those views until recently, not necessarily the views themselves that were probably outdated by the late 60s, at least the sex-before-marriage thing. Agreed, and I think that's because such values when impressed onto a society for a while also take a while to shake even when they're no longer socially or legally enforceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worth_the_wait Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 A good article for those who think that finding bodies in rivers is easy ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64712383 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 41 minutes ago, bovril said: quite funny watching English libs discover the Free Church of Scotland Feel free to enlighten us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 2 minutes ago, LiberalFox said: Feel free to enlighten us... seem a bit nuts to me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: Agreed, and I think that's because such values when impressed onto a society for a while also take a while to shake even when they're no longer socially or legally enforceable. I remember in the run up to the 2010 election the Tories saying something like "we'll look into it" when asked about gay marriage and Brown saying it was bound up with questions of religious freedoms. And yet Forbes's views are already seen as totally unacceptable. So that hasn't taken a while to shake off at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 3 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: Normalise telling these daft ***** where to shove their religion. Ah yes, inclusivity at its finest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 37 minutes ago, marbles said: Ah yes, inclusivity at its finest! I wonder whether Christianity’s evangelical nature is working against it these days in countries like ours. If she doesn’t want children outside of marriage due to her faith, nobody should have a problem with that. The question is whether she would either impose it on others or sneer at others for it from a position of authority. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbles Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 Just now, Dunge said: I wonder whether Christianity’s evangelical nature is working against it these days in countries like ours. If she doesn’t want children outside of marriage due to her faith, nobody should have a problem with that. The question is whether she would either impose it on others or sneer at others for it from a position of authority. One’s beliefs should NEVER be imposed on others. Feel free to believe whatever you want, but don’t try to force others to also believe it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 1 hour ago, Dunge said: I wonder whether Christianity’s evangelical nature is working against it these days in countries like ours. If she doesn’t want children outside of marriage due to her faith, nobody should have a problem with that. The question is whether she would either impose it on others or sneer at others for it from a position of authority. Any Christian in politics is doomed. The bible, clearly prohibits things that are now perfectly normal in society. The children born out of wedlock is probably the main one that everyone can see is just outdated. Any Christian in politics can be made to look like a hypocrite when they have to state that their religion prohibits something but as a politician, especially a leader, they will not try to change that and will even vote the other way. Tim Farron had the same problem and that was a small part in his downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 21 February 2023 Share Posted 21 February 2023 15 minutes ago, Captain... said: Any Christian in politics is doomed. The bible, clearly prohibits things that are now perfectly normal in society. The children born out of wedlock is probably the main one that everyone can see is just outdated. Any Christian in politics can be made to look like a hypocrite when they have to state that their religion prohibits something but as a politician, especially a leader, they will not try to change that and will even vote the other way. Tim Farron had the same problem and that was a small part in his downfall. Ironic really because if you’re not enthusiastically Christian in America you stand no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 8 hours ago, bovril said: I remember in the run up to the 2010 election the Tories saying something like "we'll look into it" when asked about gay marriage and Brown saying it was bound up with questions of religious freedoms. And yet Forbes's views are already seen as totally unacceptable. So that hasn't taken a while to shake off at all. Fair to say. I think this is getting a little too pol for the current rules but I'll finish by saying how pleased I am that the secular is the driving force in moral lawmaking in the UK these days. Just wish it were more prevalent elsewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 9 hours ago, Dunge said: Ironic really because if you’re not enthusiastically Christian in America you stand no chance. I once read somewhere, studies showed that the USA would vote in a, black trans lesbian.... before they would vote in an athiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 1 hour ago, ozleicester said: I once read somewhere, studies showed that the USA would vote in a, black trans lesbian.... before they would vote in an athiest. Given a black trans lesbian is a straight black man in all but name, I think they already did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaphamFox Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 Shamima Begum has lost her legal case and will remain in limbo in Syria. The wrong decision, in my view. Others will undoubtedly disagree. Case rejected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 9 hours ago, leicsmac said: Fair to say. I think this is getting a little too pol for the current rules but I'll finish by saying how pleased I am that the secular is the driving force in moral lawmaking in the UK these days. Just wish it were more prevalent elsewhere. It isn’t. Check out the sheer volume of freaky, extremist catholics serving as MPs and ministers - then check out the unelected magic sky pixie botherers in the House of Lords and the fruitloops they share the chamber with. Next to personal greed, religion remains the biggest stumbling block to common sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 41 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: Shamima Begum has lost her legal case and will remain in limbo in Syria. The wrong decision, in my view. Others will undoubtedly disagree. Case rejected Good riddance, personally. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westernpark Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 47 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: Shamima Begum has lost her legal case and will remain in limbo in Syria. The wrong decision, in my view. Others will undoubtedly disagree. Case rejected We should be taking responsibility for her. Bring her back and put her in Prison/detention. Fundamentally, she was 15 and this was a failure of safeguarding. She needs to be punished nonetheless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 I think banishment is probably not an ethical way to punish someone who was groomed by an international cult as a minor. But I'm sure it's extremely popular with the sort of people you aren't meant to call thick or racist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Fresh Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 Does seem weird you wouldn't use the opportunity to understand why any 15 year old would think it was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaphamFox Posted 22 February 2023 Share Posted 22 February 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, westernpark said: We should be taking responsibility for her. Bring her back and put her in Prison/detention. Fundamentally, she was 15 and this was a failure of safeguarding. She needs to be punished nonetheless. I agree. I think she needs to come back, for two reasons. First, because she was a child when she went out there. Although she went of her own accord, it doesn't seem right to ignore the fact that she was a child in the eyes of the law. If she has committed crimes, let her answer for them here. Second, because she's British. She's our responsibility. We were only able to strip her citizenship in the first place because we claimed that she was eligible to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship (a claim that Bangladesh has flatly rejected). How would we feel if a foreign terrorist was foisted on us because they had a British grandma? 36 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: Good riddance, personally. No doubt this will be the view of most people. It's understandable, and I'm not criticising anybody who feels this way. I just disagree, for the reasons I mention above. Edited 22 February 2023 by ClaphamFox 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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