Also in the News - Part 2

[urban.spaceman]

30 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Massive fire at the short stay car park at Luton airport, the speed the fire spread was incredible, imagine going back to that after your holiday! 

*Literally* just went through Luton Airport Parkway and didn't notice anything. Hope nobody was caught up in it

[Górnik Leicester]

39 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Massive fire at the short stay car park at Luton airport, the speed the fire spread was incredible, imagine going back to that after your holiday! 

My dad was due to land there around 23:30, but has been diverted to Stansted. Still on the plane now, awaiting news of a bus from Stansted to Luton which has absolutely no chance of coming. Have booked him on a train home instead. 

[Jon the Hat]

What the betting it was started by an electric car battery?

[MonkeyTennis?]

Watching Keir Starmer on Breakfast: I'm a Labour voter, I'm going to vote for him, I think the Tories are an appalling shambles, but I can't deny that Starmer lacks something - charisma, a spark of character, something. It's infuriating.

[Daggers]

2 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

Watching Keir Starmer on Breakfast: I'm a Labour voter, I'm going to vote for him, I think the Tories are an appalling shambles, but I can't deny that Starmer lacks something - charisma, a spark of character, something. It's infuriating.

Because leaders should have that rather than trustworthiness and competence?

[Voll Blau]

3 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

Watching Keir Starmer on Breakfast: I'm a Labour voter, I'm going to vote for him, I think the Tories are an appalling shambles, but I can't deny that Starmer lacks something - charisma, a spark of character, something. It's infuriating.

He's just far too cautious on the public stage, comes across as petrified of making a mistake.

 

Take that tweet about Arsenal the ither day: "Right in the 86th minute." Rightly ripped as a typical example of a politician faking a love of football.

 

Like... come on man, you're a genuine, matchgoing fan who walks from the pub to the ground before games and who plays 6-a-side every week - and *that's* what you put out? Get a new social media guy ffs.

[LanguedocFox]

22 hours ago, Daggers said:

Oh dear.

 

How sad.

 

Nevermind. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/oct/10/crypto-scam-finance-boss-fraudsters-savings

He says he was “probably blinded by a mixture of greed, curiosity and stubbornness” 

 

Now there’s a surprise.

[Lionator]

5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

He's just far too cautious on the public stage, comes across as petrified of making a mistake.

 

Take that tweet about Arsenal the ither day: "Right in the 86th minute." Rightly ripped as a typical example of a politician faking a love of football.

 

Like... come on man, you're a genuine, matchgoing fan who walks from the pub to the ground before games and who plays 6-a-side every week - and *that's* what you put out? Get a new social media guy ffs.

Given the way that recent past labour leaders have been picked apart on personal insults, Brown and Milliband (bacon sandwich and his dad is a Jew so don’t vote for him) especially, and Corbyn to a less extent, is it any wonder? He’s cultivated this image deliberately for sure and it’s worked.

 

On the other hand I agree, he’s clearly a massive football fan and a relatively normal bloke in that aspect, I have no idea why he doesn’t use that to his advantage a bit more. 

[StanSP]

8 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Massive fire at the short stay car park at Luton airport, the speed the fire spread was incredible, imagine going back to that after your holiday! 

Huge. Shame as the building is also fairly new. Hopefully everyone got out in time before they could get hurt. 

 

 

[Lionator]

17 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

Watching Keir Starmer on Breakfast: I'm a Labour voter, I'm going to vote for him, I think the Tories are an appalling shambles, but I can't deny that Starmer lacks something - charisma, a spark of character, something. It's infuriating.

I think people are just after boring competence, and are ok with that after the lord mayor’s show. Clement Attlee was a dullard yet was probably the most effective Labour leader ever. 

[Voll Blau]

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

Given the way that recent past labour leaders have been picked apart on personal insults, Brown and Milliband (bacon sandwich and his dad is a Jew so don’t vote for him) especially, and Corbyn to a less extent, is it any wonder? He’s cultivated this image deliberately for sure and it’s worked.

 

On the other hand I agree, he’s clearly a massive football fan and a relatively normal bloke in that aspect, I have no idea why he doesn’t use that to his advantage a bit more. 

Oh, I absolutely get why he errs on the side of caution. As the OP says though, it feels like he could be connecting so much better without sacrificing any hint of the "sane man at the wheel" image.

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

Oh, I absolutely get why he errs on the side of caution. As the OP says though, it feels like he could be connecting so much better without sacrificing any hint of the "sane man at the wheel" image.

Suppose he doesn't really have to at the minute, he's just got to avoid doing anything massively crap and he should win.

[Voll Blau]

10 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Suppose he doesn't really have to at the minute, he's just got to avoid doing anything massively crap and he should win.

In theory yes, but he'll need to bring some personality out in the election campaign. It's a shame but it is something a good proportion of the electorate put a great deal of stock in.

[Tommy Fresh]

17 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

In theory yes, but he'll need to bring some personality out in the election campaign. It's a shame but it is something a good proportion of the electorate put a great deal of stock in.

On that basis though Sunak isn't exactly oozing charisma

[RoboFox]

55 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

Watching Keir Starmer on Breakfast: I'm a Labour voter, I'm going to vote for him, I think the Tories are an appalling shambles, but I can't deny that Starmer lacks something - charisma, a spark of character, something. It's infuriating.

People liked Johnson because he spent years carefully crafting a public persona as a charismatic, affable, well-meaning but chaotic everyman. "Oh look,  he's got funny hair! And he stumbles over his sentences like anybody else!" 

 

His personality and character was ultimately his downfall and his tenure was an unprecedented disaster. 

 

Personality politics is a scourge. Boring and effective is what we need.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, RoboFox said:

People liked Johnson because he spent years carefully crafting a public persona as a charismatic, affable, well-meaning but chaotic everyman. "Oh look,  he's got funny hair! And he stumbles over his sentences like anybody else!" 

 

His personality and character was ultimately his downfall and his tenure was an unprecedented disaster. 

 

Personality politics is a scourge. Boring and effective is what we need.

Yep.

 

As other people have put, Attlee is certainly in the top 3 of greatest PMs ever and he was "all substance and no show".

[StanSP]

 

 

[MonkeyTennis?]

6 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

On that basis though Sunak isn't exactly oozing charisma

While I wouldn't vote for Sunak in a million years, and I think he is a complete lame duck, I can't deny that he does have a kind-of CBBC presenter type energy. This morning Starmer had lots of opportunities to give human answers, but he kept delivering these machine tooled, very obviously rehearsed lines. That's fine. I understand why, I want competence, I'm not interested in the cult of personality, I want leadership that can actually deliver, not this crazy 'Announce policies to appeal to the raging right, and then do nothing' approach which the Tories have cultivated over the last few years. I want to like Starmer, and I want other people to vote for him. I have no doubt he would be a vastly better leader than any of the shambles we have experienced since the Tories got in. 

 

But to win, leaders need to connect with people and describe the world in a way that makes sense to them - especially if they are in opposition, because its really hard to change people's voting habits. I'm in my forties and we have only had a change in the governing party twice in my lifetime. For me, Starmer still needs something more to put this in the bag.

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Clement Attlee was a dullard yet was probably the most effective Labour leader ever. 

 

20 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yep.

 

As other people have put, Attlee is certainly in the top 3 of greatest PMs ever and he was "all substance and no show".

 

My Dad arrived in England from Ireland as a young man when Attlee was PM - and became a lifelong fan of Attlee and his team, especially Bevan.

At the time, he used to go back to Ireland telling his conservative-minded, devout Catholic parents and siblings that this was what Ireland needed - and they'd shake their heads at this young idealist. 

 

Apparently, even at the time Attlee was known for personal dullness and not playing the PR/charisma game (which would've been limited by modern standards).

Once he emerged from No. 10 on New Year's Day and a reporter asked him if he had a New Year message for the nation - and Attlee replied "No". 

 

What my Dad liked about Attlee, apart from the substantive achievements, was that he devolved a lot of power to his ministers, but then ruthlessly replaced any who weren't delivering.

Apparently he was asked why he'd sacked one minister and replied "Not up to the job". 

 

Definite pre-echoes of Nigel Pearson, it seems to me.....

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

My Dad arrived in England from Ireland as a young man when Attlee was PM - and became a lifelong fan of Attlee and his team, especially Bevan.

At the time, he used to go back to Ireland telling his conservative-minded, devout Catholic parents and siblings that this was what Ireland needed - and they'd shake their heads at this young idealist. 

 

Apparently, even at the time Attlee was known for personal dullness and not playing the PR/charisma game (which would've been limited by modern standards).

Once he emerged from No. 10 on New Year's Day and a reporter asked him if he had a New Year message for the nation - and Attlee replied "No". 

 

What my Dad liked about Attlee, apart from the substantive achievements, was that he devolved a lot of power to his ministers, but then ruthlessly replaced any who weren't delivering.

Apparently he was asked why he'd sacked one minister and replied "Not up to the job". 

 

Definite pre-echoes of Nigel Pearson, it seems to me.....

That's right.

 

And apparently, the elite London press gave Attlee a massively rough ride too.

[st albans fox]

Electric vehicles 

I hope the fire at Luton airport isn’t ev responsible 

if it is then I reckon 2035 is potentially going back even further unless the industry can design a battery casing that is fireproof and sealed 

[Alf Bentley]

15 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That's right.

 

And apparently, the elite London press gave Attlee a massively rough ride too.

 

That's interesting. I didn't know that, although I'm not surprised.

 

Another of my Dad's quotes from that era...apparently Churchill said Attlee was "a modest little man with a great deal to be modest about".

Well, while Churchill has gone down in history as a great war leader, Attlee has gone down as a great peacetime leader.....though detailed analysis would find flaws in the performance of both of them.

 

Mind you, I do agree with @Voll Blau and @MonkeyTennis? that Starmer could make a better connection with the public than he is doing. I don't mean that he should become a showman like Johnson - or even Blair. He should just relax the caution and pre-scripting a bit and reveal of bit more genuine personality,  humour and what makes him tick.

 

The mood for change and disgust at the Tories may be such that Labour can win without him doing that. But, if Labour does win, it's important that they have some public buy-in, not just a victory based on rejection of the Tories. That could become massively important once they're (hopefully) in government, as the times, circumstances, debts and budgets will make it a very tough time in which to govern. There'll be lots of difficult decisions and the likelihood that most improvements will take a long time. Life may remain pretty crap for a lot of people for a long time........if so, that's when public buy-in might allow Labour to retain support, whereas a victory based on not being the Tories could see support dissolve quickly in tough times.

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

While I wouldn't vote for Sunak in a million years, and I think he is a complete lame duck, I can't deny that he does have a kind-of CBBC presenter type energy. This morning Starmer had lots of opportunities to give human answers, but he kept delivering these machine tooled, very obviously rehearsed lines. That's fine. I understand why, I want competence, I'm not interested in the cult of personality, I want leadership that can actually deliver, not this crazy 'Announce policies to appeal to the raging right, and then do nothing' approach which the Tories have cultivated over the last few years. I want to like Starmer, and I want other people to vote for him. I have no doubt he would be a vastly better leader than any of the shambles we have experienced since the Tories got in. 

 

But to win, leaders need to connect with people and describe the world in a way that makes sense to them - especially if they are in opposition, because its really hard to change people's voting habits. I'm in my forties and we have only had a change in the governing party twice in my lifetime. For me, Starmer still needs something more to put this in the bag.

Agree to disagree on Sunak, I agree with your point on winning over voters from the otherside potentially being an issue for Labour. 

[st albans fox]

28 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Electric vehicles 

I hope the fire at Luton airport isn’t ev responsible 

if it is then I reckon 2035 is potentially going back even further unless the industry can design a battery casing that is fireproof and sealed 

Beds fire dept say started in a diesel car. 
 

i think there is still a big issue re ev batteries and possible fires 

[StanSP]

36 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Electric vehicles 

I hope the fire at Luton airport isn’t ev responsible 

if it is then I reckon 2035 is potentially going back even further unless the industry can design a battery casing that is fireproof and sealed 

 

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Beds fire dept say started in a diesel car. 
 

i think there is still a big issue re ev batteries and possible fires 

Do we mean just the battery itself, or while it's charging? 

 

If the latter, can't blame that as apparently there are no charging stations in that terminal.