Also in the News - Part 2

[Parafox]

13 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Looks like they've found a body in the search for the missing baby. 

 

Which was almost certain to happen.

 

Potentially another infanticide unless baby was born at home  without life and the parents panicked.  

Edited 1 March 2023 by Parafox

[Super_horns]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

 

Which was almost certain to happen.

 

Potentially another infanticide unless baby was born at home  without life and the parents panicked.  

Seems they come from very different background.

 

Mother was quite well off and the father a convicted sex offender so maybe they were worried the child might get taken away ?

 

Whatever the reasons a very sad tragic tale .

 

 

Edited 1 March 2023 by Super_horns

[Parafox]

Surely a child taken into care for whatever reasons is better than a child potentially being killed (murdered) by their parents

[marbles]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/missing-man-found-in-shark-s-stomach-identified-by-his-tattoos/ar-AA181IuH?OCID=ansmsnnews11
 

Weird story

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, leicsmac said:

An interesting piece of polemic that nonetheless says nothing about the circumstances that caused the rise of "woke" in the first place and the necessity or lack thereof. Possibly because it would lead them to a place where they weren't comfortable with going - aka acknowledging that there was and is a problem there and while critique of "woke" is easy and often justifiable, perhaps, yet again, prejudices and those willing to apply them are still out there and haven't gone away and that perhaps merits focus?

 

In short, people of colour in the US and LGBT people in many more places are still being targeted specifically because of who they are, both institutionally and personally.

A lot of people could see this over the top approach to social justice wouldn't actually help the causes it was purporting to advance.  Middle class dickheads and entitled men have a history of achieving the opposite.  It is a shame yes, but steady progress is the way forward.  Not having ones causes taken over by the extremes with dubious agendas is the challenge.  If you really want people to buy into your argument you need to actually have one, not try to shut down their questions, whether those have a sound basis or not you must answer them.

[Jon the Hat]

3 hours ago, Parafox said:

Surely a child taken into care for whatever reasons is better than a child potentially being killed (murdered) by their parents

Sadly the care system is as underfunded as everything else, and outcomes are shit.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

A lot of people could see this over the top approach to social justice wouldn't actually help the causes it was purporting to advance.  Middle class dickheads and entitled men have a history of achieving the opposite.  It is a shame yes, but steady progress is the way forward.  Not having ones causes taken over by the extremes with dubious agendas is the challenge.  If you really want people to buy into your argument you need to actually have one, not try to shut down their questions, whether those have a sound basis or not you must answer them.

I said it above - people of colour in the US and LGBT folks in many other places are being targeted specifically because of who they are, both institutionally and personally, and that needs to change. How it changes, of course, is the big question.

 

Again, as per above, the steady approach may be the only or best way, but all the same I feel for those who it will be too late to help and also sympathise with those who would be angry at being in the firing line and want to change it quickly and drastically. Most of us here have the privilege of looking at it from a more objective viewpoint. They do not.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

I said it above - people of colour in the US and LGBT folks in many other places are being targeted specifically because of who they are, both institutionally and personally, and that needs to change. How it changes, of course, is the big question.

 

Again, as per above, the steady approach may be the only or best way, but all the same I feel for those who it will be too late to help and also sympathise with those who would be angry at being in the firing line and want to change it quickly and drastically. Most of us here have the privilege of looking at it from a more objective viewpoint. They do not.

Yes agreed.  I just think this BLM and TRA nonsense has set them back (generally, Im sure there has been some progress in pockets).  Not saying they were wrong to try it as such, but it has backfired imo.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes agreed.  I just think this BLM and TRA nonsense has set them back (generally, Im sure there has been some progress in pockets).  Not saying they were wrong to try it as such, but it has backfired imo.

Current evidence indicates nothing to the contrary, yes - but it's possibly too early to tell overall on that.

 

However, I don't think we should stop looking for better - and less costly overall in terms of lives and suffering - ways to make the kind of societal changes that need to happen.

[StanSP]

 

 

[ClaphamFox]

This story has been rumbling on for about a week now. It's completely bonkers. A Quran gets accidentally scuffed at school, a 14-year-old boy receives death threats, local religious fanatics inflame tensions with extremist rhetoric and the police just meekly go along with it.

 

 

[Facecloth]

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

This story has been rumbling on for about a week now. It's completely bonkers. A Quran gets accidentally scuffed at school, a 14-year-old boy receives death threats, local religious fanatics inflame tensions with extremist rhetoric and the police just meekly go along with it.

 

 

The reaction and death threats are totally over the top and shouldn't be accepted, but its also not as simple as this copy of the Quran being scuffed at school by accident, like it was knocked off a shelf in a library. The kid who damaged it took it into school as a forfeit for losing on COD. They definitely don't deserve death threats but they certainly need to learn some respect for others religions. Perhaps the correct response would be to offer to educate them in some way.

[ClaphamFox]

4 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

The reaction and death threats are totally over the top and shouldn't be accepted, but its also not as simple as this copy of the Quran being scuffed at school by accident, like it was knocked off a shelf in a library. The kid who damaged it took it into school as a forfeit for losing on COD. They definitely don't deserve death threats but they certainly need to learn some respect for others religions. Perhaps the correct response would be to offer to educate them in some way.

Why do they need to learn to respect religion? Is there something about religion that makes it worthy of automatic respect?  

[Facecloth]

36 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Why do they need to learn to respect religion? Is there something about religion that makes it worthy of automatic respect?  

I'm atheist, I'm no fan of religion, but I also don't think we should be bringing people holy books into school as part of forfeit or bet. 

 

If Bengiun wants to come on here and start rabbiting on about how great God is I'm gonna call him out on what I think is crap, but I'm not gonna go stand outside his house pissing on a bible. Let people be. Which these guys obviously weren't. Why else would 4 none Muslim kids bring a Quran to school as a forfeit? It wasnt to read was it.

Edited 2 March 2023 by Facecloth

[Captain...]

42 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Why do they need to learn to respect religion? Is there something about religion that makes it worthy of automatic respect?  

There's not something specific about religion that automatically deserves respect, but it does fall under the wider category of respecting people.

 

Disrespecting a religious object is disrespecting people that believe in that religion. I don't think it is controversial to say schools should be teaching kids to be respectful to other people and their beliefs.

[westernpark]

A child under anyway circumstances should not be receiving a death threat. (Of course no person should be) To focus on the child’s behaviour is to put blame on them. Of course respecting others is important, and we’ve all done daft stuff at that age. But the most important thing from this incident should be the reaction towards the child and the fact it requires a community meeting to resolve.

[Facecloth]

10 minutes ago, westernpark said:

A child under anyway circumstances should not be receiving a death threat. (Of course no person should be) To focus on the child’s behaviour is to put blame on them. Of course respecting others is important, and we’ve all done daft stuff at that age. But the most important thing from this incident should be the reaction towards the child and the fact it requires a community meeting to resolve.

Of course I said as much in my first post. But the original post on this was trying to paint it as an accident, it wasn't, the book was brought to school as part of a forfeit, and as such I would say almost certainly with malicious intent. The reaction is way out of order and I think it does religion, and that particular religion, no favours given some peoples views on it. An offer of friendship and education, to build better trust and stronger bonds between communities would be much more constructive.

[Captain...]

18 minutes ago, westernpark said:

A child under anyway circumstances should not be receiving a death threat. (Of course no person should be) To focus on the child’s behaviour is to put blame on them. Of course respecting others is important, and we’ve all done daft stuff at that age. But the most important thing from this incident should be the reaction towards the child and the fact it requires a community meeting to resolve.

I don't disagree, but to completely dismiss their behaviour is missing the point. Whilst messing about with a book is a lesser crime than sending a kid death threats it was the catalyst. Whilst we can all agree that those sending death threats to kids are in the wrong you're also ignoring the other kids that felt attacked by the initial incident and didn't respond with threats or violence. 

[westernpark]

Apologies to you both but I am unsure how to quote two different posts. I get that you’ve said that, but my opinion is that what the child has done is completely redundant if an adult has reacted to it, with a death threat. How can we teach a child respect, if an adult is behaving in this way? 
R.E is very important in this country(why it’s mandatory on curriculum) but religion is not above the law.

[Facecloth]

11 minutes ago, westernpark said:

Apologies to you both but I am unsure how to quote two different posts. I get that you’ve said that, but my opinion is that what the child has done is completely redundant if an adult has reacted to it, with a death threat. How can we teach a child respect, if an adult is behaving in this way? 
R.E is very important in this country(why it’s mandatory on curriculum) but religion is not above the law.

Again, you are totally missing the point. Not once have either of us said what the adults did was right, but the only reason that what the children did was even brought up was because the original poster tried to paint the whole thing as totally accidentally like they damaged a library book. The reaction is way over the top and as I said education would built stonger ties and hopefully prevent this in future. Bit we shouldn't ignore what the kids did and we shouldn't try and hide it when talking about as the original poster did. Its part of the story. If we want to try and understand why they reacted the way they did and try and talk to people to not react in such a way in future, we first have to understand what they reacted too.

[bovril]

2 hours ago, Facecloth said:

The reaction and death threats are totally over the top and shouldn't be accepted, but its also not as simple as this copy of the Quran being scuffed at school by accident, like it was knocked off a shelf in a library. The kid who damaged it took it into school as a forfeit for losing on COD. They definitely don't deserve death threats but they certainly need to learn some respect for others religions. Perhaps the correct response would be to offer to educate them in some way.

I can't say that when I read the story for the first time I thought it was the non-Muslim kids who needed to be educated. 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, westernpark said:

Apologies to you both but I am unsure how to quote two different posts. 

 

Click on the + button, bottom left of each post you want to quote. Should say "Multiquote" when you hover over it. 

[bovril]

I found the footage of the Mum in that W. Yorkshire case quite disturbing. She looked terrified. 

[ClaphamFox]

23 minutes ago, bovril said:

I can't say that when I read the story for the first time I thought it was the non-Muslim kids who needed to be educated. 

Exactly. Those making the threats surely need to be educated about what it means to live in a secular country with free speech and no blasphemy laws? Evidently they don’t quite understand it yet. 

[bovril]

 

2 hours ago, Captain... said:

There's not something specific about religion that automatically deserves respect, but it does fall under the wider category of respecting people.

 

Disrespecting a religious object is disrespecting people that believe in that religion. I don't think it is controversial to say schools should be teaching kids to be respectful to other people and their beliefs.

Saying "people who believe in God are idiots" or something along those lines is also essentially disrespecting them.