bovril Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 2 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: Exactly. Those making the threats surely need to be educated about what it means to live in a secular country with free speech and no blasphemy laws? Evidently they don’t quite understand it yet. As somebody who works in education if any pupils had made death threats I would hope they'd be expelled before educated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westernpark Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 1 hour ago, Facecloth said: Again, you are totally missing the point. Not once have either of us said what the adults did was right, but the only reason that what the children did was even brought up was because the original poster tried to paint the whole thing as totally accidentally like they damaged a library book. The reaction is way over the top and as I said education would built stonger ties and hopefully prevent this in future. Bit we shouldn't ignore what the kids did and we shouldn't try and hide it when talking about as the original poster did. Its part of the story. If we want to try and understand why they reacted the way they did and try and talk to people to not react in such a way in future, we first have to understand what they reacted too. I think you are missing my point, I think it’s completely unacceptable regardless of what a child has done, to receive death threats. There are no excuses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 13 minutes ago, westernpark said: I think you are missing my point, I think it’s completely unacceptable regardless of what a child has done, to receive death threats. There are no excuses. And I think you're still missing the point, because at no point did I say it was right or that it's an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 43 minutes ago, bovril said: As somebody who works in education if any pupils had made death threats I would hope they'd be expelled before educated. Think you should probably reread my lost because you clearly didn't grasp what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 30 minutes ago, westernpark said: I think you are missing my point, I think it’s completely unacceptable regardless of what a child has done, to receive death threats. There are no excuses. Nobody has missed that point, everyone agrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 29 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Think you should probably reread my lost because you clearly didn't grasp what I meant. You wrote that you think the kids that damaged the book should learn to respect others' religions. Fine if you believe that but obviously people will disagree; doesn't mean they've misinterpreted your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 Probably worth pointing out every Muslim I know has been appalled by the response of the 'community leaders' and shocked that such threatening behavior is tolerated in any country. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 20 minutes ago, bovril said: You wrote that you think the kids that damaged the book should learn to respect others' religions. Fine if you believe that but obviously people will disagree; doesn't mean they've misinterpreted your post If you read my other posts I'm clearly saying they should respect people's right to follow a religion. If they are preaching it to them by all means argue against that, but if they aren't affecting you, it's not right to go around mocking their holy texts or damaging their places of worship. It's not just respect for religious belief its basic respect for your fellow human. I'm not gonna rock up to work tomorrow and burn a Forest shirt in front of the Forest fan it's just needlessly antagonist. Regarding the education, and is the point you've completely missed, I'm not criticising the kids, I'm criticising the adults for making the death threats. I'm saying reaching out to these children, offering friendship and helping them understand why their actions might upset people would be a better way to go and would build better relationships. I've said this in other posy you've probably not read. And as I've previously pointed out, the only reason what these kids did was even mentioned was because the original poster tried to paint it as all accidental when the book was brought to school as forfeit, so clearly wasn't all innocent. So to summarise, kids are kids, and regardless of what they did, they shouldn't receive death threats, nobody should. But that said looking at the ages and the reason they brought the book in the probably had dodgy intentions and knew it would annoy people. But regardless of those intentions death threats are never the correct response and offering an olive branch, helping them understand your religion and just being generally kind to them should always be the route to take. Regardless of what's done to you, fighting hate with hate is never the answer as it always breeds more hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 22 minutes ago, Facecloth said: If you read my other posts I'm clearly saying they should respect people's right to follow a religion. If they are preaching it to them by all means argue against that, but if they aren't affecting you, it's not right to go around mocking their holy texts or damaging their places of worship. It's not just respect for religious belief its basic respect for your fellow human. I'm not gonna rock up to work tomorrow and burn a Forest shirt in front of the Forest fan it's just needlessly antagonist. Regarding the education, and is the point you've completely missed, I'm not criticising the kids, I'm criticising the adults for making the death threats. I'm saying reaching out to these children, offering friendship and helping them understand why their actions might upset people would be a better way to go and would build better relationships. I've said this in other posy you've probably not read. And as I've previously pointed out, the only reason what these kids did was even mentioned was because the original poster tried to paint it as all accidental when the book was brought to school as forfeit, so clearly wasn't all innocent. So to summarise, kids are kids, and regardless of what they did, they shouldn't receive death threats, nobody should. But that said looking at the ages and the reason they brought the book in the probably had dodgy intentions and knew it would annoy people. But regardless of those intentions death threats are never the correct response and offering an olive branch, helping them understand your religion and just being generally kind to them should always be the route to take. Regardless of what's done to you, fighting hate with hate is never the answer as it always breeds more hate. Can't be arsed to debate this too much tbh but I think what people are shocked by is the fact that people are making very serious threats to an individual because their religion has been profaned and it is basically tolerated by the police. The actual act itself is irrelevant for me because of what has happened since. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 2 hours ago, bovril said: Saying "people who believe in God are idiots" or something along those lines is also essentially disrespecting them. We have as much right to believe that as they do to believe in their god. We could hold weekly or even daily meetings on the subject, publish books, stand in the high street at weekends and engage shoppers. We could demand seats in the house of lords for our leaders, insist that schools and MPs have to listen to us preaching our beliefs before they start their day! All hail the religious are idiots association! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 2 March 2023 Share Posted 2 March 2023 2 hours ago, bovril said: As somebody who works in education if any pupils had made death threats I would hope they'd be expelled before educated. Of course it isn't the pupils is it? It is the religious nutters. Its always the religious nutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHawk Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 Nothing worse thank a few religious karens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 I still can't believe people are missing the point. Kids bringing in a religious book and messing around and damaging it is wrong. Sending death threats is more wrong. This doesn't make the first act right. The issue is reporting this incident as "accidentally damaging the book" is incorrect and implies innocent behaviour when it clearly wasn't. The police not investigating the death threats, if that is the case is also wrong. It's just a whole load of wrong, but we can't ignore the first wrong which was the catalyst because the subsequent wrong was worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 Would it have been wrong if they were "scuffing" a Roald Dahl book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 39 minutes ago, ozleicester said: Would it have been wrong if they were "scuffing" a Roald Dahl book? Woke edited version or sacred unedited texts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ClaphamFox Posted 3 March 2023 Popular Post Share Posted 3 March 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Captain... said: I still can't believe people are missing the point. Kids bringing in a religious book and messing around and damaging it is wrong. Sending death threats is more wrong. This doesn't make the first act right. The issue is reporting this incident as "accidentally damaging the book" is incorrect and implies innocent behaviour when it clearly wasn't. The police not investigating the death threats, if that is the case is also wrong. It's just a whole load of wrong, but we can't ignore the first wrong which was the catalyst because the subsequent wrong was worse. It’s not that people are ‘missing the point’, as you so arrogantly insist. It’s that they ascribe far less importance to the first ‘wrong’ than to the second. If the book in question were the Bible, the Torah, the Bhagavad Gita or the Guru Granth Sahib, this very likely wouldn’t even be a story. The reason it has become a story is because this one group of religious fanatics have reacted with violent threats. For most people, the point is that in the UK you cannot threaten to kill children because they were messing about with a book, irrespective of what that book is. This is not a theocratic state and we do not have blasphemy laws here. We are not compelled to scrape and bow in front of religious lunatics. They must accept that they do not live in a country where you can be killed for scuffing a book. If they want to live in a country where that happens, they are welcome to move to one. Reports into the Muslim rape gangs in northern towns have concluded that they were able to get away with it for so long because the police and social services were terrified of upsetting the Muslim community and being accused of racism. The police’s response to this incident has demonstrated similar level of cowardice. You seem to believe that we should go out of our way to avoid upsetting zealous maniacs from a particular religion. Others believe it is far more important to stand up to such fanaticism. They’re not ‘missing the point’. Edited 3 March 2023 by ClaphamFox 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 26 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: It’s not that people are ‘missing the point’, as you so arrogantly insist. It’s that they ascribe far less importance to the first ‘wrong’ than to the second. If the book in question were the Bible, the Torah, the Bhagavad Gita or the Guru Granth Sahib, this very likely wouldn’t even be a story. The reason it has become a story is because this one group of religious fanatics have reacted with violent threats. For most people, the point is that in the UK you cannot threaten to kill children because they were messing about with a book, irrespective of what that book is. This is not a theocratic state and we do not have blasphemy laws here. We are not compelled to scrape and bow in front of religious lunatics. They must accept that they do not live in a country where you can be killed for scuffing a book. If they want to live in a country where that happens, they are welcome to move to one. Reports into the Muslim rape gangs in northern towns have concluded that they were able to get away with it for so long because the police and social services were terrified of upsetting the Muslim community and being accused of racism. The police’s response to this incident has demonstrated similar level of cowardice. You seem to believe that we should go out of our way to avoid upsetting zealous maniacs from a particular religion. Others believe it is far more important to stand up to such fanaticism. They’re not ‘missing the point’. No I don't, if you read back what I've said, and I've said it quite clearly, death threats are worse than the original incident. The issue people are raising is the deceitful headline you posted. This was not some accident it was a deliberate act of disrespect and to paint it all as an accident is just plain wrong. You seem to imply that the boys shouldn't be punished because they received death threats. 2 wrongs don't make either right. The headline is deliberately inflammatory and misleading to push an agenda. That is what is being called out. If the police have not investigated the death threats then that should be the focus of the story not trying to paint the original act as a harmless misunderstanding. Death threats are categorically not acceptable, that's so obvious it's not even worth saying. It is also not acceptable to stoke religious tensions by printing and sharing deliberately misleading headlines. The kids should be appropriately punished for their behaviour and the people sending death threats should also be appropriately punished for their behaviour and the whole thing should be used as a learning exercise for both sides. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Captain... said: No I don't, if you read back what I've said, and I've said it quite clearly, death threats are worse than the original incident. The issue people are raising is the deceitful headline you posted. This was not some accident it was a deliberate act of disrespect and to paint it all as an accident is just plain wrong. You seem to imply that the boys shouldn't be punished because they received death threats. 2 wrongs don't make either right. The headline is deliberately inflammatory and misleading to push an agenda. That is what is being called out. If the police have not investigated the death threats then that should be the focus of the story not trying to paint the original act as a harmless misunderstanding. Death threats are categorically not acceptable, that's so obvious it's not even worth saying. It is also not acceptable to stoke religious tensions by printing and sharing deliberately misleading headlines. The kids should be appropriately punished for their behaviour and the people sending death threats should also be appropriately punished for their behaviour and the whole thing should be used as a learning exercise for both sides. Yes indeed, I should think a brisk telling off and perhaps 30 minutes detention would be appropriate. During which the kids could be taught that some people are ****ing crazy religious nutters. Edited 3 March 2023 by Jon the Hat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 51 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: Reports into the Muslim rape gangs in northern towns have concluded that they were able to get away with it for so long because the police and social services were terrified of upsetting the Muslim community and being accused of racism. The police’s response to this incident has demonstrated similar level of cowardice. You seem to believe that we should go out of our way to avoid upsetting zealous maniacs from a particular religion. Others believe it is far more important to stand up to such fanaticism. They’re not ‘missing the point’. The problem is the front line Police are just following the path of least resistance and hence bowing to this bollocks. Hard to blame them when they appear to get so little support from their overly woke leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 31 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Yes indeed, I should think a brisk telling off and perhaps 30 minutes detention would be appropriate. During which the kids could be taught that some people are ****ing crazy religious nutters. I'm glad we are in agreement they should be punished. The severity of the punishment is for schools to determine, however the mum of the boy who brought in the Quaran has not complained about the punishment. Instead she has accepted it and apologised for his behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 32 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: The problem is the front line Police are just following the path of least resistance and hence bowing to this bollocks. Hard to blame them when they appear to get so little support from their overly woke leadership. Have the police at any point said they are not investigating the death threats? All we know is the mum said her son has received death threats and threats of being beaten up. It is not clear in anything I've read who made those threats nor how the police are responding to them. Just to reiterate what I've said above, death threats are not acceptable for any reason and the police absolutely should be investigating them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grobyfox1990 Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: We have as much right to believe that as they do to believe in their god. We could hold weekly or even daily meetings on the subject, publish books, stand in the high street at weekends and engage shoppers. We could demand seats in the house of lords for our leaders, insist that schools and MPs have to listen to us preaching our beliefs before they start their day! All hail the religious are idiots association! Edit - poster below puts me right Edited 3 March 2023 by grobyfox1990 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 On the topic of hideous things: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dallas-humber-terrorgram-narrator-mass-shootings_n_64010e78e4b0d14ed6a6a545?qah "On Oct. 12, 2022, Juraj Krajčík used a laser-sighted gun to open fire outside a popular LGBTQ bar in Bratislava, Slovakia, killing two queer people and wounding a third. “Feeling no regrets, isn’t that funny?” he tweeted. He killed himself a short time later. The 19-year-old had also tweeted a link to a 65-page screed he’d authored advocating the genocide of queer people, Jewish people and Black people. Krajčík mimicked and cited the writings of other white supremacist mass shooters, whom he referred to as “saints.” And in a “special thanks” section, he expressed gratitude for the online community that had radicalized him. “Terrorgram Collective,” Krajčík wrote in italics for emphasis. “You know who you are…. Building the future of the White revolution, one publication at a time.”" The darker side of social media shows up again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 9 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said: Tongue in cheek comment from you I know but that is not realistic in 2023, although it probably should be? It's like saying we have as much right to restrict women's rights as promote them, shout about how we oppose LGBTQI+ rights, deny trans availability etc etc. Religion is definitely in the 'protected' space which you cannot question or face public repercussions for. I'm not saying I agree with that btw Of course you can say what you like about religion. There are countless books and shows that criticise and make fun of religion. The BBC just broadcast a critically acclaimed drama that's whole purpose is to slam religion. There is a difference between art/intelligent discussion/comedy and vandalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grobyfox1990 Posted 3 March 2023 Share Posted 3 March 2023 16 minutes ago, Captain... said: Of course you can say what you like about religion. There are countless books and shows that criticise and make fun of religion. The BBC just broadcast a critically acclaimed drama that's whole purpose is to slam religion. There is a difference between art/intelligent discussion/comedy and vandalism. Actually yeh fair enough you are 100% right LOL. I was probably thinking from my own perspective, I would never dream of talking negatively about religion at work, to a client etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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