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Wymsey

Also in the News - Part 2

By Wymsey, in General Chat

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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Schofield stepping down from This Morning. Assume this means some damming stories about him aren't far from being released 


Super injunction about to expire ..  sh1t about to hit the fan. 

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RobHawk

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2 hours ago, Super_horns said:

 

No excuse for the riots and trouble caused but doesn’t look good for the police if the video legit after saying there wasn’t a car case with these 2 lads who had an accident and died .

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65687785

I get annoyed by this shit, and the police will no doubt take a spanking if they were involved as it looks. 

 

But why do I never read anyone ask the question why the police were chasing them in the first place and if they were doing nothing wrong why didn't they stop. 

 

To be clear, I'm not saying these lads deserved to die BUT as someone who has to deal with young people being anti social on a regular basis, I have very little sympathy when there actions have negative consequences on themselves because they do not have thought for the consequences of their actions on others. 

 

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bmt

bmt

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Super_horns said:

 

No excuse for the riots and trouble caused but doesn’t look good for the police if the video legit after saying there wasn’t a car case with these 2 lads who had an accident and died .

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65687785

I agree in principle but the response has weirdly justified the riots. Caught out lying because they didn't think there was cctv. Utterly abhorrent 

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bmt

bmt

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8 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

I get annoyed by this shit, and the police will no doubt take a spanking if they were involved as it looks. 

 

But why do I never read anyone ask the question why the police were chasing them in the first place and if they were doing nothing wrong why didn't they stop. 

 

To be clear, I'm not saying these lads deserved to die BUT as someone who has to deal with young people being anti social on a regular basis, I have very little sympathy when there actions have negative consequences on themselves because they do not have thought for the consequences of their actions on others. 

 

This misses the point by so much I can't even. The police in this country should stop chasing people when the risk becomes that someone will die rather than they'll get their arrest. It doesn't matter what they were doing, joyriding a bike by the looks of it. They're teenage boys being idiots, don't deserve to die. The police look like they've caused this and then lied about it.

 

Also the one on the back has no control, even if you think the 'not thinking about the consequences' argument holds any weight. Why does he deserve to die and then have the indignity of the police force claiming they didn't contribute to it.

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RobHawk

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8 minutes ago, bmt said:

This misses the point by so much I can't even. The police in this country should stop chasing people when the risk becomes that someone will die rather than they'll get their arrest. It doesn't matter what they were doing, joyriding a bike by the looks of it. They're teenage boys being idiots, don't deserve to die. The police look like they've caused this and then lied about it.

 

Also the one on the back has no control, even if you think the 'not thinking about the consequences' argument holds any weight. Why does he deserve to die and then have the indignity of the police force claiming they didn't contribute to it.

It's all speculation so who knows what happened at this time. 

 

But the police, particularly with under 16s have very little power to do anything. That leads to alot of young people causing trouble on a regular basis knowing nothing will be done. 

 

I can admit that in my line of work, I've personally felt threatened and intimidated by large groups of youths being absolute idiots and it can be very unnerving. When that happens night after night and nothing ever gets done, it's frustrating and you desperately want something to be done. Antisocial behaviour is alot more than teenage boys messing about and can cause harm to alot of people. 

 

I've been honest about how it has made me feel, but I'm 6"2, fit healthy in my mid thirties and generally don't take much shit off anyone so imagine how more vulnerable people would feel. 

 

So I will not criticise the police for doing their jobs, I am not missing any points and am looking at it from a point of view with first hand experience. We do not know what led to the chase so the bike could have been used to get away rather than that being the cause of issue. 

 

But I'm not saying the police are not in the wrong, all I'm saying is I get annoyed because the media and other people do not ask the questions why? And my point is, if they were up to no good, then some of that responsibility falls on them.

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Mark_w

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

It's all speculation so who knows what happened at this time. 

 

But the police, particularly with under 16s have very little power to do anything. That leads to alot of young people causing trouble on a regular basis knowing nothing will be done. 

 

I can admit that in my line of work, I've personally felt threatened and intimidated by large groups of youths being absolute idiots and it can be very unnerving. When that happens night after night and nothing ever gets done, it's frustrating and you desperately want something to be done. Antisocial behaviour is alot more than teenage boys messing about and can cause harm to alot of people. 

 

I've been honest about how it has made me feel, but I'm 6"2, fit healthy in my mid thirties and generally don't take much shit off anyone so imagine how more vulnerable people would feel. 

 

So I will not criticise the police for doing their jobs, I am not missing any points and am looking at it from a point of view with first hand experience. We do not know what led to the chase so the bike could have been used to get away rather than that being the cause of issue. 

 

But I'm not saying the police are not in the wrong, all I'm saying is I get annoyed because the media and other people do not ask the questions why? And my point is, if they were up to no good, then some of that responsibility falls on them.

I can think of a couple reasons why the media and others aren't formally questioning why the police might have been chasing them.
- Police officers involved have clearly lied about this, which makes it very likely that there isn't any justifiable reason for the chase.
- It would be very insensitive to the deceased and their families. With no actual evidence, the media or others publically 'asking the question' is just victim blaming or encouraging their readership to victim blame. It's a journalists job to ask questions, get the answers to those questions and print those if they're of interest or importance to their readership. It's not their place to print any old question that pops into their head regardless of whether they know the answer or not just because you might want to know that they've thought of it. Just because you haven't read it from the media doesn't mean they haven't asked the question. They spend all day asking questions. They're probably not getting answers, not in a position to print what they know yet (either legally or because they have to go through a process of verifying or whatever), or not finding anything that's actually noteworthy.

I doubt Foxes Talk is going to come up with questions that professional journalists haven't thought to ask about situations they're infinitely more familiar with than we are.

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RobHawk

RobHawk

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10 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

I can think of a couple reasons why the media and others aren't formally questioning why the police might have been chasing them.
- Police officers involved have clearly lied about this, which makes it very likely that there isn't any justifiable reason for the chase.
- It would be very insensitive to the deceased and their families. With no actual evidence, the media or others publically 'asking the question' is just victim blaming or encouraging their readership to victim blame. It's a journalists job to ask questions, get the answers to those questions and print those if they're of interest or importance to their readership. It's not their place to print any old question that pops into their head regardless of whether they know the answer or not just because you might want to know that they've thought of it. Just because you haven't read it from the media doesn't mean they haven't asked the question. They spend all day asking questions. They're probably not getting answers, not in a position to print what they know yet (either legally or because they have to go through a process of verifying or whatever), or not finding anything that's actually noteworthy.

I doubt Foxes Talk is going to come up with questions that professional journalists haven't thought to ask about situations they're infinitely more familiar with than we are.

Ok I agree with what you are saying in regards to the media, and I did mention them in my post so I take that, but I was trying to make a wider point but worded it clumsily.

 

So think of who I mean when I say other people and Look at the reaction of a large portion of the community who decided to start a riot rather than ask why? 

 

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there, I think I've made my point, and ultimately we don't know the details of what actually happened so I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with the level of assumption I'm having to make to clarify my points. And if people still disagree with me, cool, let's agree to disagree 👍

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nnfox

nnfox

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1 hour ago, bmt said:

This misses the point by so much I can't even. The police in this country should stop chasing people when the risk becomes that someone will die rather than they'll get their arrest. It doesn't matter what they were doing, joyriding a bike by the looks of it. They're teenage boys being idiots, don't deserve to die. The police look like they've caused this and then lied about it.

 

Also the one on the back has no control, even if you think the 'not thinking about the consequences' argument holds any weight. Why does he deserve to die and then have the indignity of the police force claiming they didn't contribute to it.

Rrright.

 

So I can steal your motorbike, ride it without a helmet and doff my hat at the police without consequence?  What happens when I run a kid over and kill them?  No doubt you'd blame the police for not intervening?

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Super_horns

Super_horns

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Nalis said:

No-one looks good in this at all.

No - unfortunately the mixed messages from the police won’t relations and trust in them .

 

1 hour ago, RobHawk said:

Ok I agree with what you are saying in regards to the media, and I did mention them in my post so I take that, but I was trying to make a wider point but worded it clumsily.

 

So think of who I mean when I say other people and Look at the reaction of a large portion of the community who decided to start a riot rather than ask why? 

 

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there, I think I've made my point, and ultimately we don't know the details of what actually happened so I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with the level of assumption I'm having to make to clarify my points. And if people still disagree with me, cool, let's agree to disagree 👍

Fair point.

 

Potentially there has be this sort of behaviour going on for a bit and of course the police are a bit dammed if they do something to try and stop it and and dammed if they don’t do anything.

 

As I say doesn’t excuse mass violence and people wrecking cars and affecting other peoples lives .

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Daggers

Daggers

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2 hours ago, bmt said:

This misses the point by so much I can't even. The police in this country should stop chasing people when the risk becomes that someone will die rather than they'll get their arrest. It doesn't matter what they were doing, joyriding a bike by the looks of it. They're teenage boys being idiots, don't deserve to die. The police look like they've caused this and then lied about it.

 

Also the one on the back has no control, even if you think the 'not thinking about the consequences' argument holds any weight. Why does he deserve to die and then have the indignity of the police force claiming they didn't contribute to it.

 

39 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Rrright.

 

So I can steal your motorbike, ride it without a helmet and doff my hat at the police without consequence?  What happens when I run a kid over and kill them?  No doubt you'd blame the police for not intervening?

Anyone who has been terrorised in public parks while walking dogs/children by these ‘teenage boys being idiots’, having to grab as many of your charges as you can and throw them to safety as the complete fukwads scream about putting their lives at risk or threatening a very large vet bill - or anyone who has had their pride and joy nicked and joyriders about until they trash it, leaving you to be reamed by the insurance company - might think differently to bmt.

 

I fall into both brackets on more than one occasion. Two bikes stolen and written off, full value not refunded, all no claims lost. Three times in parks in Brum I feared for my kids and dog.

 

We live in the country, but oiks from Rothwell have discovered my dog walking airfield and regularly bring their twoc of choice up. I always carry a weighty walking stick now with the express intention of jousting a fukwad off their ride so I can personally deliver my feelings on the matter.

 

I was delighted when the police adopted their policy of ‘tactical contact’. I don’t shed a tear when they get injured or die.

 

The solution is really simple: don’t steal people’s stuff, buy your own bike, tax and insure it, pass your test, and fvcking ride legally.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, nnfox said:

Rrright.

 

So I can steal your motorbike, ride it without a helmet and doff my hat at the police without consequence?  What happens when I run a kid over and kill them?  No doubt you'd blame the police for not intervening?

The police have the obligation to chase someone they think has committed a crime and if caught, arrest and subject them to full penalty of law. That's legit consequence.

 

What they do not have is the right to continue a chase where the life of either those chasing or being chased are being put in immediate danger. If they do so, then the responsibility for continuing the chase and all associated consequences of it is solely on them. (If, of course, the people being chased are themselves putting the lives of other people in direct danger, then it's a different matter entirely.)

 

Material property is not as valuable as anyone's life.

 

NB.This type of discussion pops up whenever some trigger-happy police over in the US kill someone who didn't present a capital threat to them, too. It isn't right there and it's isn't right in the UK, either.

Edited by leicsmac
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