Also in the News - Part 2

[Daggers]

I know some get a bit chippy when you describe things and events as insane, but I can’t think of any other way to describe how Trump and his supporter cult sound. All of it, completely insane.

[grobyfox1990]

10 minutes ago, Daggers said:

I know some get a bit chippy when you describe things and events as insane, but I can’t think of any other way to describe how Trump and his supporter cult sound. All of it, completely insane.

Too true, him and they are completely and utterly bonkers. But surely on this forum there are no Trump supporters? They would get hounded out instantly

[ozleicester]

Just now, grobyfox1990 said:

Too true, him and they are completely and utterly bonkers. But surely on this forum there are no Trump supporters? They would get hounded out instantly

They claim not to be "Trump supporters"... but just agree with his ideas

[Lionator]

38 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

It’s going to get lost within it all but just points to the running down of another service (mental health) which could have stopped this incident. 

The chances of severe mental illness is going to be so much higher for people who have migrated here from countries which have experienced war/oppression/genocide. I’m not anti-migration as such but you need a social infrastructure to support migrants. This isn’t the first incident like this to happen, there was one in Birmingham a couple of years back when a bloke went stabbing random people because he thought they were security services.

[Daggers]

Woof - the Johnson report really ripped him a new arsehole 😂

 

Brilliant stuff. 

[Zear0]

12 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Woof - the Johnson report really ripped him a new arsehole 😂

 

Brilliant stuff. 

Shock as serial phililanderer found to be dishonest. 

[leicsmac]

35 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Too true, him and they are completely and utterly bonkers. But surely on this forum there are no Trump supporters? They would get hounded out instantly

Have a look at the Election 2020 thread, specifically about 20 pages in, in the early stages of the count after election day when it was thought he might win (because postal voting hadn't apparently crossed minds).

 

You'd be surprised.

Edited 15 June 2023 by leicsmac

[yorkie1999]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/scientists-what-came-first-chicken-egg/

 

Spot the mistake!

[David Hankey]

Drain the swamp!!

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

They claim not to be "Trump supporters"... but just agree with his ideas

 

26 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Have a look at the Election 2020 thread, specifically about 20 pages in, in the early stages of the count after election day when it was thought he might win (because postal voting hadn't apparently crossed minds).

 

You'd be surprised.

Understood, that's good. It's a real echo chamber in here, some Trumpism would shake the place up 

[Sampson]

9 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

 

Understood, that's good. It's a real echo chamber in here, some Trumpism would shake the place up 

I’m not sure openly lying, completely ignoring facts, stubbornly ignoring research and saying false and nasty things just to get a reaction is a good “cure” for an echo chamber. 
 

By all means, I think Kenneth Clark style economic conservatism but one that actually debates in a civil manner is healthy to bring debate, but I don’t see how Trumpism is anything but the opposite to being a cure for an echo chamber, even if you think the “other side” is stuck in its waya, you don’t cure that by presenting an opposing viewpoint which is flagrantly and unsubtly divorced an from truth and reality.  

[grobyfox1990]

3 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I’m not sure openly lying, completely ignoring facts, stubbornly ignoring research and saying false and nasty things just to get a reaction is a good “cure” for an echo chamber. 
 

By all means, I think Kenneth Clark style economic conservatism but one that actually debates in a civil manner is healthy to bring debate, but I don’t see how Trumpism is anything but the opposite to being a cure for an echo chamber, even if you think the “other side” is stuck in its waya, you don’t cure that by presenting an opposing viewpoint which is flagrantly and unsubtly divorced an from truth and reality.  

Trumpism encompasses hundreds of millions of people worldwide. Dismissing them as liars and detached from reality as you do is how we end up with unmitigated disasters such as Brexit and Trump. They are very real. I like watching fox comedy news channel to understand what the hell is going on with these maniacs. You get some real 'typical middle aged man' internet dudes on foxestalk that get into a spitting froth when an opposing view is shown (not you btw, I have no idea who you are)

[leicsmac]

25 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

 

Understood, that's good. It's a real echo chamber in here, some Trumpism would shake the place up 

Nah, Sampson has said it best immediately above, but viewpoints that are entirely removed from any kind of fact that then gain political traction never lead to any good end. That's reasonably self evident, I think.

 

And at this point, yes, the vast majority of his support are exactly that. The moderates with "legitimate concerns" would have dropped him after January 6th 2021, or thereabouts.

[Dunge]

I think Trumpism in terms of people having desires for focus on the benefits of right wing policies, personal wealth, independence, individual responsibility, traditional family values and even faith being lost in a changing society, chat away.

 

Trumpism in terms of propping up a narcissist who actively tried to induce a coup in the most powerful country in the world and then tries to get away with any number of misdemeanours by throwing anyone he needs to under the bus, not to mention his encouragement of right wing extremists - that can do one.

Edited 15 June 2023 by Dunge

[Zear0]

9 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Trumpism encompasses hundreds of millions of people worldwide. Dismissing them as liars and detached from reality as you do is how we end up with unmitigated disasters such as Brexit and Trump. They are very real. I like watching fox comedy news channel to understand what the hell is going on with these maniacs. You get some real 'typical middle aged man' internet dudes on foxestalk that get into a spitting froth when an opposing view is shown (not you btw, I have no idea who you are)

Don't forget that one of the parameters of the neo-fascist Trumpism movement are principles like truthiness, alternative facts and big lies. By its very definition it's based on saying what you want people to hear even when demonstrably untrue. Whilst I agree dismissing the views of those who voted for Trump and Brexit did lead to such disasters.

 

Trumpism is literally based on lies and delusion and we shouldn't shy away from calling them as such.

Edited 15 June 2023 by Zear0

[RobHawk]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Nah, Sampson has said it best immediately above, but viewpoints that are entirely removed from any kind of fact that then gain political traction never lead to any good end. That's reasonably self evident, I think.

 

And at this point, yes, the vast majority of his support are exactly that. The moderates with "legitimate concerns" would have dropped him after January 6th 2021, or thereabouts.

As an example, Boris is still banging the drum that he felt all of these social gatherings in number 10 were  "were reasonably necessary for work purposes" and "above all it did not cross my mind – as I spoke in the House of Commons – that the events were unlawful."

 

As someone who worked all the way through lockdown, in my place if work, (no furlough or working from home for me) I can confidently say this is complete bullshit.

 

I remember having to stagger people's breaks as only 2 staff were allowed in the canteen at any one time. That wasn't based on something my company made up, that was directed by government advice which we had to comply with in order to remain open. 

 

So Boris re-writing history with his lies, it's not politics and has no place, I hope people see through his bullshit and that there is only one charade ongoing and it's him trying to protect his own skin (again).

[grobyfox1990]

21 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Don't forget that one of the parameters of the neo-fascist Trumpism movement are principles like truthiness, alternative facts and big lies. By its very definition it's based on saying what you want people to hear even when demonstrably untrue. Whilst I agree dismissing the views of those who voted for Trump and Brexit did lead to such disasters.

 

Trumpism is literally based on lies and delusion and we shouldn't shy away from calling them as such.

This is what I am trying to say.

 

Being called stupid on a football forum, by some dude on the street who is part of the 99% of the world's population to have never done anything of note and is also stupid, is not a good way to go. And leads to the unmitigated disasters we had in 2016 and will continue to have

[Sampson]

37 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Trumpism encompasses hundreds of millions of people worldwide. Dismissing them as liars and detached from reality as you do is how we end up with unmitigated disasters such as Brexit and Trump. They are very real. I like watching fox comedy news channel to understand what the hell is going on with these maniacs. You get some real 'typical middle aged man' internet dudes on foxestalk that get into a spitting froth when an opposing view is shown (not you btw, I have no idea who you are)

It doesn’t matter if they have millions of followers. So does pro-Putin warmongering and pro-Kim-Jon Il brainwashing into thinking living in a land where their neighbours starve to death is somehow the patriotic thing to do. Having millions of followers isn’t an excuse for ignoring facts, truth and reality.
 

They absolutely are liars and detached from reality. People absolutely tried to argue the case against Brexit and Trump but just kept getting sloganeering responses of “project fear” and “being in-American” and 2 or 3 word sloganeering questioning people’s patriotism continued to win the day.

 

Brexiteers were told time and time again over many many years about the economic and diplomatic dangers of leaving the EU but Farage and Rees-Mogg parroted “project fear” every time so its followers had a get out everytime. You can’t really debate that when the other side is inventing false amount of free cash we can give to the NHS without yourself being dragged down to inventing false money claims the other way.

The point is their followers even know they’re liars to an extent but because it’s part of their “team” they waft it away and say “yeah I know they lie but everyone does” and create false equivalences between leaders. The amount of people who I heard say “yes I know Boris was a liar and a cheat but he’s *our* liar and cheat” in a tongue in cheek way is depressing.

 

How exactly do you propose these people being genuine debate to the table? For certain people you might br able to bring them round, but there’s a point where you have to say that person’s mind will not be changed. And if people still believe in Trump or Boris or still think Brexit was a good idea after everything we’ve seen since 2016 (which is 7 years ago now, how time flies) then I think there’s a point when you need to say they can’t be debated or reasoned with and will instead just continue to bring lies, unresearched data and hearsay to any debate 

Edited 15 June 2023 by Sampson

[David Hankey]

I suppose the next thing we'll hear is that Johnson will want to include himself in his resignation honours list.

[weller54]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

Woof - the Johnson report really ripped him a new arsehole 😂

 

Brilliant stuff. 

And he'll use it as Trump would... to rally his lunatic supporters!! 

[grobyfox1990]

7 minutes ago, Sampson said:

It doesn’t matter if they have millions of followers. So does pro-Putin warmongering and pro-Kim-Jon Il brainwashing into thinking living in a land where their neighbours starve to death is somehow the patriotic thing to do. Having millions of followers isn’t an excuse for ignoring facts, truth and reality.
 

They absolutely are liars and detached from reality. People absolutely tried to argue the case against Brexit and Trump but just kept getting sloganeering responses of “project fear” and “being in-American” and 2 or 3 word sloganeering questioning people’s patriotism continued to win the day.

 

Brexiteers were told time and time again over many many years about the economic and diplomatic dangers of leaving the EU but Farage and Rees-Mogg parroted “project fear” every time so its followers had a get out everytime. You can’t really debate that when the other side is inventing false amount of free cash we can give to the NHS without yourself being dragged down to inventing false money claims the other way.

The point is their followers even know they’re liars to an extent but because it’s part of their “team” they waft it away and say “yeah I know they lie but everyone does” and create false equivalences between leaders. The amount of people who I heard say “yes I know Boris was a liar and a cheat but he’s *our* liar and cheat” in a tongue in cheek way is depressing.

 

How exactly do you propose these people being genuine debate to the table? For certain people you might br able to bring them round, but there’s a point where you have to say that person’s mind will not be changed. And if people still believe in Trump or Boris or still think Brexit was a good idea after everything we’ve seen since 2016 (which is 7 years ago now, how time flies) then I think there’s a point when you need to say they can’t be debated or reasoned with and will instead just continue to bring lies, unresearched data and hearsay to any debate 

I have absolutely no interest in debating anything with a Brexiteer or trump bummer, for the same reason they have no interest in talking to you. They aren't going to listen, completely entrenched. 

 

My point goes back to the very start...Being called stupid on a football forum, by some dude on the street who is part of the 99% of the world's population to have never done anything of note and is also stupid, is not a good way to go. And leads to the unmitigated disasters we had in 2016 and will continue to have.

 

You do not need to call them stupid or froth out at them, it achieves the absolute negative.

 

 

[Sampson]

1 minute ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I have absolutely no interest in debating anything with a Brexiteer or trump bummer, for the same reason they have no interest in talking to you. They aren't going to listen, completely entrenched. 

 

My point goes back to the very start...Being called stupid on a football forum, by some dude on the street who is part of the 99% of the world's population to have never done anything of note and is also stupid, is not a good way to go. And leads to the unmitigated disasters we had in 2016 and will continue to have.

 

You do not need to call them stupid or froth out at them, it achieves the absolute negative.

 

 

I’m “completely entrenched” for thinking facts and research have a place in political debate? That’s all I’ve expressed in this debate so I can only assume that’s what you’re talking about 

That’s exactly what I’m talking about creating a false equivalency and “both sides-ism” in this debate, it’s what Trump and Boris have always done to give their side an out “oh sure Boris lies but he gets things done and all politicians and all sides lie and are the same” etc. is a classic defence by Trump and Boris voters/

 

Where exactly has anyone in this debate called Trump or Boris supporters stupid? You’re inventing things here.

[leicsmac]

45 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I think Trumpism in terms of people having desires for focus on the benefits of right wing policies, personal wealth, independence, individual responsibility, traditional family values and even faith being lost in a changing society, chat away.

 

Trumpism in terms of propping up a narcissist who actively tried to induce a coup in the most powerful country in the world and then tries to get away with any number of misdemeanours by throwing anyone he needs to under the bus, not to mention his encouragement of right wing extremists - that can do one.

I would posit that, given everything that has happened, at the present time his support base is next to none of the former and practically all the latter.

[grobyfox1990]

5 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I’m “completely entrenched” for thinking facts and research have a place in political debate? That’s all I’ve expressed in this debate so I can only assume that’s what you’re talking about 

That’s exactly what I’m talking about creating a false equivalency and “both sides-ism” in this debate, it’s what Trump and Boris have always done to give their side an out “oh sure Boris lies but he gets things done and all politicians and all sides lie and are the same” etc. is a classic defence by Trump and Boris voters/

 

Where exactly has anyone in this debate called Trump or Boris supporters stupid? You’re inventing things here.

Yes, as am I. I think being entrenched in a view that has concluded that trump and brexit is nonsense of the highest magnitude is a very good thing.

 

Read what you've written objectively and seriously consider whether anyone reading that who doesn't share your viewpoint thinks they are being called stupid. 'I didn't actually SAY that!!! Find the quote!!!' is a very Trump/Farage thing to do, when the meaning and intention of your words is crystal clear. 

[Daggers]

Mad Nads is going into fruitloop overdrive