Our system detected that your browser is blocking advertisements on our site. Please help support FoxesTalk by disabling any kind of ad blocker while browsing this site. Thank you.
Jump to content
 Share
Wymsey

Also in the News - Part 2

By Wymsey, in General Chat

Recommended Posts

Sampson

Sampson

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yes, as am I. I think being entrenched in a view that has concluded that trump and brexit is nonsense of the highest magnitude is a very good thing.

 

Read what you've written objectively and seriously consider whether anyone reading that who doesn't share your viewpoint thinks they are being called stupid. 'I didn't actually SAY that!!! Find the quote!!!' is a very Trump/Farage thing to do, when the meaning and intention of your words is crystal clear. 


I’m not talking about saying what I said word for word, I’m talking about where I supposedly implied it. Because I genuinely can’t see that.

 

What? It’s a Trump or Farage thing to ask people what they’re referring to when they’re being misrepresented? I think that’s a pretty general thing everyone should do in a debate. 
 

If you’re going to accuse me of inferring  people are stupid then yes, of course you should quote my comments you’re referring to - so I’ll reiterate- please quote the section you are referring to when suggesting I’m implying people are stupid even if I didn’t directly say that. 

 

The meaning and intention of my words had nothing to do with calling people stupid. I said Trumpian viewpoint was a lying one and divorced from reality. I said the supporters even know this and even play off it to an extent. What does that have to do with any person’s intelligence? I don’t think people are stupid, I think they’re being duped by some very clever people who know full well what they’re doing, absolutely, that doesn’t make them stupid, it means I think they’re falling for a schtick which many very intelligent people do. If you think that I’d calling people stupid then what do you suggest as an alternative?
 

Trumpism *does* deal in unsubtle and fragrant lying and divorcing from reality and there is a point where his followers are so far I’m they can’t be debated. We should absolutely be calling that out otherwise it just festers unopposed - how do you suggest we call that out without calling it for what it is which is some very clever and manipulative people duping people?

Edited by Sampson
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
Daggers

Daggers

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
3 hours ago, Daggers said:

I know some get a bit chippy when you describe things and events as insane, but I can’t think of any other way to describe how Trump and his supporter cult sound. All of it, completely insane.

And I'm going to extend this to anyone declaring that they #BackBoris today.

 

So many people denouncing the report despite not reading it. They want to live in delusion rather than confront the fact they were conned.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Horse's Mouth

The Horse's Mouth

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Daggers said:

And I'm going to extend this to anyone declaring that they #BackBoris today.

 

So many people denouncing the report despite not reading it. They want to live in delusion rather than confront the fact they were conned.

Tbh I still kind of get the Trump backing, but the boris was escapes me. He was just another career politician with a silly barnet and largely ignored most of his base when in office. The only thing I can think is that, for real dire hard tories he probably does have the best chance of keeping more seats than Sunak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Tbh I still kind of get the Trump backing, but the boris was escapes me. He was just another career politician with a silly barnet and largely ignored most of his base when in office. The only thing I can think is that, for real dire hard tories he probably does have the best chance of keeping more seats than Sunak.

I'd be interested to know how this still applies even now.

 

I mean, even though I disagreed I got the idea in 2016 through about 2020.....but now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Horse's Mouth

The Horse's Mouth

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'd be interested to know how this still applies even now.

 

I mean, even though I disagreed I got the idea in 2016 through about 2020.....but now?

There’s a few reasons I’d say, the controversies don’t really hurt him with his base it usually fuels more support. You have to remember Trump is the ultimate anti political establishment candidate, I can completely get a valiant trump supporter thinking this is all a witch hunt at the moment with the timing of it, it perfectly paints the picture that they’re doing everything to stop him happening again. Trump doesn’t miss a beat with his speaking, he still holds the same charisma and will still inspire hope within his base. Bidens term has been pretty dreadful as well, both sides probably acknowledge he shouldn’t be running again, the only reason he’s probably running at this stage is because Kamala is more hated and there’s not a lot of talent to step up. I think Di Santis had a good chance of converting a lot of Trumpsters, but he’s really botched his bid.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

There’s a few reasons I’d say, the controversies don’t really hurt him with his base it usually fuels more support. You have to remember Trump is the ultimate anti political establishment candidate, I can completely get a valiant trump supporter thinking this is all a witch hunt at the moment with the timing of it, it perfectly paints the picture that they’re doing everything to stop him happening again. Trump doesn’t miss a beat with his speaking, he still holds the same charisma and will still inspire hope within his base. Bidens term has been pretty dreadful as well, both sides probably acknowledge he shouldn’t be running again, the only reason he’s probably running at this stage is because Kamala is more hated and there’s not a lot of talent to step up. I think Di Santis had a good chance of converting a lot of Trumpsters, but he’s really botched his bid.

....while I see what you mean, AFAIC the events of January 6th invalidate all of that.

 

These people are hanging their hat on a man who advocated for the violent overturning of a free and fair election result via storming the place where it was being ratified - and enough people bought into it to see something pretty nasty and almost really nasty happen on that day. By that, the guy demonstrates that he doesn't actually care about any of the democratic principles the "Americans" he talks about are supposed to idealise. Everything that has happened since is pretty much incidental to that IMO.

 

If these folks want Biden gone for their own reasons (and while again I disagree I would understand), then there's plenty of other viable Repub candidates to pick. By picking Trump, they show that they really don't believe in the ideals that they say they hold dear - but rather in dictatorship by one demographic for one demographic. If that's the values they believe in, then that's between them and their own conscience (or lack thereof) - but it would be much better if they were straight up honest about it.

Edited by leicsmac
Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Horse's Mouth

The Horse's Mouth

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

....while I see what you mean, AFAIC the events of January 6th invalidate all of that.

 

These people are hanging their hat on a man who advocated for the violent overturning of a free and fair election result via storming the place where it was being ratified - and enough people bought into it to see something pretty nasty and almost really nasty happen on that day. By that, the guy demonstrates that he doesn't actually care about any of the democratic principles the "Americans" he talks about are supposed to idealise. Everything that has happened since is pretty much incidental to that IMO.

 

If these folks want Biden gone for their own reasons (and while again I disagree I would understand), then there's plenty of other viable Repub candidates to pick. By picking Trump, they show that they really don't believe in the ideals that they say they hold dear - but rather in dictatorship by one demographic for one demographic.

I agree, honestly. But it just hasn’t stuck and I genuinely believe the social media blackout that they dished out on him was probably the best thing for him. Like I say I’m not supporting the support here, but I completely get why they’re still on board. 
 

The thing is with that is, the vast majority of people who go on board the Trump train were actually happy with his term. Realistically had it not been for covid I think he would’ve won re-election.They know what they’re getting with trump and liked it which is why I get why he’s still getting that support and it does also lean in to the fact that trump is such a unique figure, a lot of these republicans candidates will just be mimicked in 8 years, he’s not from the production line so to speak.It could play against them though, I think Di Santis would probably beat Biden comfortably but the marmite reaction to Trump could play against him this time, especially after the 2020 events.

Edited by The Horse's Mouth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I agree, honestly. But it just hasn’t stuck and I genuinely believe the social media blackout that they dished out on him was probably the best thing for him. Like I say I’m not supporting the support here, but I completely get why they’re still on board. 
 

The thing is with that is, the vast majority of people who go on board the Trump train were actually happy with his term. Realistically had it not been for covid I think he would’ve won re-election.They know what they’re getting with trump and liked it which is why I get why he’s still getting that support and it does also lean in to the fact that trump is such a unique figure, a lot of these republicans candidates will just be mimicked in 8 years, he’s not from the production line so to speak.It could play against them though, I think Di Santis would probably beat Biden comfortably but the marmite reaction to Trump could play against him this time, especially after the 2020 events.

I can see where you're coming from and why these people think the way they do.

 

It's just saddening that so many people can be conned into going for a if-not-outright-fascist-then-certainly-fascist-enabling wannabe dictator, but then there's historical precedent for that, isn't there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wymsey

Wymsey

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Daggers said:

IMG_7225.jpeg

To be quite honest, that wouldn't surprise me.

 

Can't think of anyone else that has more arrogance and high-handedness.

Edited by Wymsey
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sampson

Sampson

Posted
Posted

Just been reading Sienna Miller’s testimony. Fair play to Prince Harry for taking on the Murdoch empire btw. Not that I have any faith it’ll change anything just as it didn’t really 10 years ago with the News of the World scandals. But there’s few with the money and power as him who could genuinely take them on like this. The fact they’ve tried relentlessly to turn him and his wife into the 2 most hated people in Britain the past 5 years shows theyre definitely a bit rattled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wymsey

Wymsey

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I think you might have misunderstood the front page...

In hindsight, probably!..:D

 

Thought it was something he would do, according to the paper.

 

My bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
Lionator

Lionator

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted

I disagree that Boris is like any other Tory. While I don’t agree with conservatism, I can empathise with somebody who genuinely believes in those politics. Johnson is nothing but a self serving narcissist. He will go whichever the wind blows whether it be liberal policy and hard right policy. He has left a trail of destruction in this country which will be hard to reverse. He has duped many of the people I respect and love into believing that he is some kind of saviour, and now they look and feel stupid. Quite frankly he can rot. 

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted

I’m sure there will be many here who will say “It’s the Tories, what do you expect”, but this isn’t the Conservative Party that I recognise. This report is utterly damning, demonstrating with tons of evidence that Boris Johnson has deliberately lied to parliament and lied to the investigating committee. And yet there are Conservative MPs seemingly queuing up to die on a hill for him.

 

These are people who have lost what it is to need integrity. Even if you’re of the view that the Tories have never had it, there’s an abandonment here of even any pretence of it. It boggles the mind to me that there are MPs ready to campaign to deselect any of their fellow Conservatives who vote for this report next week, that their cult of personality is more important than a culture of integrity.

 

There are evidently many in the Conservative Party who believe they need Boris-esque populism and have now committed to that path, and that the more moderate side of the party is dragging them down. Speaking for myself, the exact opposite is their problem. I look at the Conservatives and ask myself how on Earth I can vote for them right now given the behaviour of the right wing - not “how it’s reported” but their own words and actions, their denial of this report, their blatantly disastrous economic policies, the fact they’re returning to campaigning mode over Brexit instead of actually demonstrating any kind of plan to take advantage of it. (I don’t want to argue over the latter but I’ve always been of the opinion that there are opportunities but the Conservative Brexiteers have shown no interest in actual ideas.) I quite like Rishi Sunak overall, but he’s having to deal with a sack of rats who are trying to consume everything, each other and him. Even as someone who has typically voted Conservative in the past, how can I possibly vote for that at a General Election, particularly when Labour has a moderate leader with demonstrable integrity.

 

^And there’s that word again. Integrity. Everything that Boris isn’t. The best thing that could happen to the Conservatives is that he is destroyed now and that the rest of them snap out of their lunge toward Trumpism. It’s not going to happen though, because they’re still listening to their membership. The same membership that voted for Liz Truss.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RobHawk

RobHawk

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’m sure there will be many here who will say “It’s the Tories, what do you expect”, but this isn’t the Conservative Party that I recognise. This report is utterly damning, demonstrating with tons of evidence that Boris Johnson has deliberately lied to parliament and lied to the investigating committee. And yet there are Conservative MPs seemingly queuing up to die on a hill for him.

 

These are people who have lost what it is to need integrity. Even if you’re of the view that the Tories have never had it, there’s an abandonment here of even any pretence of it. It boggles the mind to me that there are MPs ready to campaign to deselect any of their fellow Conservatives who vote for this report next week, that their cult of personality is more important than a culture of integrity.

 

There are evidently many in the Conservative Party who believe they need Boris-esque populism and have now committed to that path, and that the more moderate side of the party is dragging them down. Speaking for myself, the exact opposite is their problem. I look at the Conservatives and ask myself how on Earth I can vote for them right now given the behaviour of the right wing - not “how it’s reported” but their own words and actions, their denial of this report, their blatantly disastrous economic policies, the fact they’re returning to campaigning mode over Brexit instead of actually demonstrating any kind of plan to take advantage of it. (I don’t want to argue over the latter but I’ve always been of the opinion that there are opportunities but the Conservative Brexiteers have shown no interest in actual ideas.) I quite like Rishi Sunak overall, but he’s having to deal with a sack of rats who are trying to consume everything, each other and him. Even as someone who has typically voted Conservative in the past, how can I possibly vote for that at a General Election, particularly when Labour has a moderate leader with demonstrable integrity.

 

^And there’s that word again. Integrity. Everything that Boris isn’t. The best thing that could happen to the Conservatives is that he is destroyed now and that the rest of them snap out of their lunge toward Trumpism. It’s not going to happen though, because they’re still listening to their membership. The same membership that voted for Liz Truss.

Agreed, I don't believe in conservative politics but there was once a time we could discuss it and disagree. 

 

The Tory party as is (or at least a part of it) is the lowest of the low. It's beyond policies, it's outright criminal. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...