Stadium atmosphere

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, LVFox said:

It's a fair comment, but then clubs make it so difficult to ticket swap so in theory, his request is close to impossible.

 

There is zero alignment between boards, coaching/playing staff and fans on this issue.

Not the case with Liverpool. His point was there is a 'distribute' option at Liverpool whereby you can pass your ticket on to anyone should you not be able, or arsed to make it. Or have some lame excuse to leave on the 82nd minute. They have nfc ticketing, it's a tap of a button to pass your ticket on to somebody who actually wants to be at the game. The press person also said they give all the high points members a point for the low allocation away games, whether they attend or not. So people that actually want to be at games go to games, and not the situation at LCFC where people buy tickets to maintain their priority points and sell them to 22 year old drips with an iPhone. E.g v Luton away apparently they had a ballot for a ticket. But everyone on the highest bracket got an away point, whether you put in for the ballot or not. Closed shop it is not it seems.

[worth_the_wait]

24 minutes ago, Chris_OGrady said:

 

One of the potential elephants in the room is the lack of diversity in the match going fan (not making a political point, just a pure observation). I may be wrong on this, but I think French support is quite diverse- for example Marseille and PSG's ultras have a strong contingent from Algerian/Tunisian communities. Now I know its much harder for new fans to get - and be able to afford - tickets in the UK, but we are missing out on large swathes of young, working-class people (who actually reside in the cities) who would undoubtedly freshen up the stale scene.

Well, you get there in your last sentence.

 

It's not "diversity" in the community/race  sense, it's simply cultural/economic.

 

Football has deliberately tried to get rid of the lad/blokey working class fan for the last 30+ years.   And by and large, has been fairly successful.   That's why so many British grounds are sterile/neutered environments.

[Lako42]

I think people the nation over are actually bored of football full stop and it's part of the reason. 

 

A massive proportion of fans go out of habit / fomo. 

 

It used to be that footy was one of only a few accessible things open to people but it's not the case now. 

 

Modern society has so many more things for people to do and instantly at that. 

 

The game has made it worse by alienating it's core customer base. 

 

 

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, Lako42 said:

I think people the nation over are actually bored of football full stop and it's part of the reason. 

 

A massive proportion of fans go out of habit / fomo. 

 

It used to be that footy was one of only a few accessible things open to people but it's not the case now. 

 

Modern society has so many more things for people to do and instantly at that. 

 

The game has made it worse by alienating it's core customer base. 

 

 

Attendances are rising quite significantly across the board so I'm not sure that is the case, The PL will probably have larger average attendances than the Bundesliga next season 

[Lako42]

9 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Attendances are rising quite significantly across the board so I'm not sure that is the case, The PL will probably have larger average attendances than the Bundesliga next season 

I know what you are saying but those in attendance just don't care as much. They are attending like it's a day out rather than what football fans used to attend for. 

 

 

Anfield had the biggest attendance ever the other day and it was stale and boring. Those extra people don't actually want to be there for the same reasons as 15 years ago. 

 

Grounds are full of NPC's who aren't really sure why they are there 

Edited 21 December 2023 by Lako42

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

I know what you are saying but those in attendance just don't care as much. They are attending like it's a day out rather than what football fans used to attend for. 

 

 

Anfield had the biggest attendance ever the other day and it was stale and boring. Those extra people don't actually want to be there for the same reasons as 15 years ago. 

 

Grounds are full of NPC's who aren't really sure why they are there 

Agreed actually, football is more glamorous than ever, I think particularly for younger lads it's for signalling now rather than going to games because they genuinely love it. Tiktok and twitter are to blame for the pantomime aspects e.g limbs, casual dress, affected away day culture

[CosbehFox]

Klopp needs to look a bit closer 

[purpleronnie]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Klopp needs to look a bit closer 

Lots of people said as soon as safe standing areas were introduced then there would be a clampdown elsewhere, looks like that's right on the money.

Edited 21 December 2023 by purpleronnie

[MS0204]

On 14/12/2023 at 11:00, SemperEadem said:

On this. I know it might come across cringy but if you enjoy it there letting the club know this by way of an email will be a huge help.

They still have it down as being a trial etc.

Done  complemented the section massively in one sentence and suggested they tone down on the full time music in another 

[Mike the Metal Ed]

40 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Klopp needs to look a bit closer 

The seatbelts are a bit much.

 

Although maybe if they could be installed at the KP and locked until the final whistle...

[C-man]

30 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Lots of people said as soon as safe standing areas were introduced then there would be a clampdown elsewhere, looks like that's right on the money.

Slightly off topic perhaps, but at Birmingham on Monday night they gave out orange wristbands for those in the safe standing section, which is absolutely hilarious when you try to consider the addled logic employed.

 

The safe standing section may become overcrowded due to excess demand for the safety bar… do you a) accept that the majority of away fans stand and as such extend the section to meet such demand or b) hand out wristbands to keep the majority standing in a less-safe environment.

 

Wristbands’ll do the trick, I reckon.

 

[Daggers]

11 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Not really sure how to take this.

Great he wants to make an atmosphere, but highlights to every fan they're easily replaced 

 

 

It links to the other hot thread about tickets - clubs have completely lost traditional vocal support due to the commodify of the game. 
 

Eventually, people are going to start switching off tv services too because of the anodyne atmosphere being screened. 
 

They think the American model will continue to work, it won’t. The entire point to the sport is passion, without that - without the fans - the game is nothing. 

[purpleronnie]

15 minutes ago, Daggers said:

It links to the other hot thread about tickets - clubs have completely lost traditional vocal support due to the commodify of the game. 
 

Eventually, people are going to start switching off tv services too because of the anodyne atmosphere being screened. 
 

They think the American model will continue to work, it won’t. The entire point to the sport is passion, without that - without the fans - the game is nothing. 

Yet the fans are listened to so much more in the MLS, allowed pyro, large terraces, cheap tickets, ultra groups allowed to sell tickets etc etc...I'd take the way fans are treated in the US over the UK anyway.

[worth_the_wait]

There's no doubt that so many of Europe's clubs now have a much better atmosphere than most English/British grounds.   And the sad reality is that even up to 20-30 years ago, other countries looked jealously to our clubs/fans as something to aspire to.
 
(it's not just England btw.   Apart from a handful of young "ultras" at most Scottish clubs, they are pretty much in the same boat as us.  I went to lots of games in Scotland many years ago where it was incredibly noisy/passionate.  Most now have the same neutered atmospheres as us down here.)
 
But I think its worth pointing out that English club football has suffered 3 major sets of events, that have really harmed our atmospheres, that didn't occur in Europe to any similar degree.  These events happened over a 7 year period, but it's taken another 20-30 years for their effects to slowly work through the system.

 

1. Luton, Birmingham, Heysel (1985).
 
There were serious crowd problems at lots of games in the 1984-85 season, but it finally reached tipping point with the riots at the Luton v Millwall FA Cup game, and the Birmingham v Leeds 2nd Div match at the end of the season.   Both of these days were absolute carnage, pretty much a couple of hours of mob rule and destruction.   One fan also died at Birmingham.   On top of this, you then had Liverpool fans responsible for 39 deaths at Heysel a couple of weeks later; the worst ever incident of football hooliganism in Europe.
 
The bottom line was that the authorities (police, FA/Football League, clubs) had had enough, and basically waged all-out war against hooliganism.  And an indirect effect of that, was that clubs wanted to rid themselves of the whole laddish/blokey culture.    To replace it with a nice "family club" ethos.    So it wasn't just hooligans who got targeted, but any over-passionate, fanatical, over excitable, possibly slightly drunk lad/bloke.      You didn't notice the change overnight, but there was a cultural shift of the type of supporters clubs wanted.
 
And to add to the terrible 1985 mix, you had the Bradford fire when 56 poor souls died in horrific circumstances ... one that no one who saw the TV reports of that day, will ever forget.   That was a tragedy which had nothing to do with bad fan behaviour, but it summed up the decrepit/old state of many football grounds.   And independently started another whole process to change the sorts of grounds we should be watching football in.
 
2. Hillsborough (1989).
 
The tragic deaths of nearly 100 people, effectively did for terracing in Britain.   And with it, the terrace culture which had been around for 100 years.
 
In fairness, all-seater stadia were on the way for bigger clubs anyway as UEFA and FIFA had insisted on all seater grounds for major games.    So even if Hillsborough hadn't happened, our most successful clubs would probably have had to go all-seater anyway.  Or at least close the terrace parts for European matches.   But it wouldn't needed to have been imposed on all clubs in the top 2 Divisions, and many clubs in the 3rd/4th tier.
 
Once again, by forcing nearly every decent sized club to be all-seater, you've destroyed the fan culture of being able to stand where you want, stand next to your mates, and congregate into your own singing groups.
 
3. Premier League (1992).
 
How did the hype go?  "It's a whole new ball game".   Which is wasn't really, it was just the same as before.    But it was different though.   Sexy sexy sexy, money money money.   It took a few years, but eventually it changed the culture.    Clubs earning millions from TV didn't really care about the fans anymore ... not that they did much in the past.   But they had generally left fans to their own devices.   But now clubs actively pushed the glamour and attracted new fans, who could afford the rocketing ticket prices.
 
And before you knew what's happening, it's slowly forcing the traditional/poorer lads and blokes types out.  You didn't notice it happening one season to the next, but 10-20 years down the line, you just noticed that so many of our grounds are anonymous, sterile, neutered environments, with the odd bit of mad excitement from time to time.

 

My main point is the English clubs had these 3 major "events" thrust on them, in a way that Europe never did.  The resulting changes didn't happen overnight, and I'd say it's taken a good 30 years after the Premier League was formed.   But nearly all of the traditional, fanatical, passionate, caring fan base has slowly been disenfranchised ... with just a few exceptions ... and we're now left with what we have.

 

(ok, mobile phones and social media have been another negative factor, but that's common to the whole of Europe, not just us)

 

[Trev3939]

People still left ridiculously early. Ironic chants of loyal supporters and if you love Leicester stay here but nothing stops them leaving. Terrible 

 

 

[purpleronnie]

21 hours ago, worth_the_wait said:

There's no doubt that so many of Europe's clubs now have a much better atmosphere than most English/British grounds.   And the sad reality is that even up to 20-30 years ago, other countries looked jealously to our clubs/fans as something to aspire to.
 
(it's not just England btw.   Apart from a handful of young "ultras" at most Scottish clubs, they are pretty much in the same boat as us.  I went to lots of games in Scotland many years ago where it was incredibly noisy/passionate.  Most now have the same neutered atmospheres as us down here.)
 
But I think its worth pointing out that English club football has suffered 3 major sets of events, that have really harmed our atmospheres, that didn't occur in Europe to any similar degree.  These events happened over a 7 year period, but it's taken another 20-30 years for their effects to slowly work through the system.

 

1. Luton, Birmingham, Heysel (1985).
 
There were serious crowd problems at lots of games in the 1984-85 season, but it finally reached tipping point with the riots at the Luton v Millwall FA Cup game, and the Birmingham v Leeds 2nd Div match at the end of the season.   Both of these days were absolute carnage, pretty much a couple of hours of mob rule and destruction.   One fan also died at Birmingham.   On top of this, you then had Liverpool fans responsible for 39 deaths at Heysel a couple of weeks later; the worst ever incident of football hooliganism in Europe.
 
The bottom line was that the authorities (police, FA/Football League, clubs) had had enough, and basically waged all-out war against hooliganism.  And an indirect effect of that, was that clubs wanted to rid themselves of the whole laddish/blokey culture.    To replace it with a nice "family club" ethos.    So it wasn't just hooligans who got targeted, but any over-passionate, fanatical, over excitable, possibly slightly drunk lad/bloke.      You didn't notice the change overnight, but there was a cultural shift of the type of supporters clubs wanted.
 
And to add to the terrible 1985 mix, you had the Bradford fire when 56 poor souls died in horrific circumstances ... one that no one who saw the TV reports of that day, will ever forget.   That was a tragedy which had nothing to do with bad fan behaviour, but it summed up the decrepit/old state of many football grounds.   And independently started another whole process to change the sorts of grounds we should be watching football in.
 
2. Hillsborough (1989).
 
The tragic deaths of nearly 100 people, effectively did for terracing in Britain.   And with it, the terrace culture which had been around for 100 years.
 
In fairness, all-seater stadia were on the way for bigger clubs anyway as UEFA and FIFA had insisted on all seater grounds for major games.    So even if Hillsborough hadn't happened, our most successful clubs would probably have had to go all-seater anyway.  Or at least close the terrace parts for European matches.   But it wouldn't needed to have been imposed on all clubs in the top 2 Divisions, and many clubs in the 3rd/4th tier.
 
Once again, by forcing nearly every decent sized club to be all-seater, you've destroyed the fan culture of being able to stand where you want, stand next to your mates, and congregate into your own singing groups.
 
3. Premier League (1992).
 
How did the hype go?  "It's a whole new ball game".   Which is wasn't really, it was just the same as before.    But it was different though.   Sexy sexy sexy, money money money.   It took a few years, but eventually it changed the culture.    Clubs earning millions from TV didn't really care about the fans anymore ... not that they did much in the past.   But they had generally left fans to their own devices.   But now clubs actively pushed the glamour and attracted new fans, who could afford the rocketing ticket prices.
 
And before you knew what's happening, it's slowly forcing the traditional/poorer lads and blokes types out.  You didn't notice it happening one season to the next, but 10-20 years down the line, you just noticed that so many of our grounds are anonymous, sterile, neutered environments, with the odd bit of mad excitement from time to time.

 

My main point is the English clubs had these 3 major "events" thrust on them, in a way that Europe never did.  The resulting changes didn't happen overnight, and I'd say it's taken a good 30 years after the Premier League was formed.   But nearly all of the traditional, fanatical, passionate, caring fan base has slowly been disenfranchised ... with just a few exceptions ... and we're now left with what we have.

 

(ok, mobile phones and social media have been another negative factor, but that's common to the whole of Europe, not just us)

 

Not sure I agree with Scotland its been transformed over the past couple of seasons and its only getting better.  That's the main thing.  They have things in place in Scotland to improve atmosphere, here we are going backwards and actively suppressing it so the gap will only grow.

 

It needs 2 things, fans to organise and want change and a club that's willing to listen and then act.  There's very little of either in England.

[moore_94]

Noticed today that you don’t have to move far in our stadium for there to be such a big difference in how much you can hear the singing section and L1

 

First half I was sat in my usual seat in J1 and as usual the singing section were much easier to hear and seemed much louder than L1

 

Second half I moved to sit with my sister which was only around 30 seats to the right of mine and you could barely hear the singing section at all and L1 seemed much louder

 

I know people have mentioned it in this thread recently but our stadium really is dreadful for allowing sound to travel around the stands

[hejammy]

Just got back and honestly I just don't get it why people leave early (except for the very few reasons on an occasional basis) all I could hear around me was 'let's go and beat the traffic, let's go so we can get down quicker' etc etc. A bit pathetic to be fair.

 

However, ironically, I stay till the end and it's not taking me much less time to get out! 

[UniFox21]

Seemed much better today than previous weeks. Great what a bit of free beer can do. 

 

Still in shock at the number of people leaving so early.

[Danno]

They need to reopen the pitchside exits and you’ll have more people staying til the end. A lot of people complaining about how it takes them 20 mins to get out 

[ElusiveEd]

For me, and those around me in P block, that was the worse atmosphere of the season so far and I'm embarrassed as **** at the amount of so called "fans" leaving early.

 

It's getting worse every home game and I can't see it stopping anytime soon.

 

WTF is it gonna take for this club to take measures to turn our gaff into the place it once was? It's pathetic and becoming a joke.

 

One moaning bloke in the pub beforehand saying he leaves on 80 minutes because he gets home 20 minutes earlier than if he leaves at full time. 20 minutes!!!!

Mate, if your wife is as dull as you I'd not want to get home 20 minutes earlier! 

Stay and support the lads FFS! 

 

[Batfink77]

At least there were a couple of chants calling these plastic fans out. Needed more to join in and possibly needed as soon as first lot made their exit. 

[Mr Weller 2]

Plenty of the usual nonsense on here from a mix of young guys who weren’t around back in the day and older guys who romanticise the past because they were younger back then.

 

I watched matches through most of the 70s onwards and I can tell you there wasn’t much atmosphere at games with 10-15k attendance and the menace of violence before and after the game. The authorities who waged war on terrace culture did so not only because of the high profile disasters but also because hooliganism was killing the game and attendances were falling year on year.

 

Nostalgia for a time when football was in almost terminal decline is based on false memories and perceptions. I remember attending a home game against West Brom when 7,000 turned up and it was dire. I stood by the way.

 

For the record I know what people mean when they criticise modern atmospheres but they are talking out of their hat.

Edited 23 December 2023 by Mr Weller 2

[Nolucklcfc]

Was ok today. Plenty of new faces in the section. 

[ElusiveEd]

11 minutes ago, Mr Weller 2 said:

Plenty of the usual nonsense on here from a mix of young guys who weren’t there back in the day and older guys who romanticise the past because they were younger then.

 

I watched matches through most of the 70s onwards and I can tell you there wasn’t much atmosphere at games with 10-15k attendance and the menace of violence before and after the game. The authorities who waged war on terrace culture did so because of the high profile disasters but also because hooliganism was killing the game and attendances were falling year on year.

 

Nostalgia for a time when football was in almost terminal decline is based on false memories and perceptions. I remember attending a home game against West Brom when 7,000 turned up and it was dire. I stood by the way.

 

For the record I know what people mean when they criticise modern atmospheres but they are talking out of their hat.

But nothing is as dire as it is/was today/these days!

With 30,000+ of us it should be hugely more vocal, audible and atmospheric than it is.

 

Every game the opposing fans taunt our atmosphere, or lack of,  and I stand there thinking " Well, I can't argue with them"

 

Even today "3-0 up and you still don't sing" rang out loudly from a few hundred of them and none of our 30,000 fans, or whatever was left by then, could be arsed to respond. 

 

What's it gonna take?

Edited 23 December 2023 by ElusiveEd