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frany104

Time for the owners to sell up

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1 hour ago, Sly said:

Yes, although it isn’t projected to return to normal levels until 2024.

 

They’ve invested in other business streams as well, so who knows where the priories lie.

 

I wonder what the OHL fans make of King Power?

 

@Phugalu

@Bonanza

@Pelotas

@demakke

Is the other business streams returns likely to help us? I think they're committed to LCFC and won't sell up unless we're in a better position. It doesn't make sense for them to sell right now. 

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5 hours ago, StanSP said:

Is the other business streams returns likely to help us? I think they're committed to LCFC and won't sell up unless we're in a better position. It doesn't make sense for them to sell right now. 

It depends really, only those working within the King Power Group will understand how they go around capital purchases like transfers etc. 

 

In a normal business model for a large organisation, you’d typically have a  annual capital expenditure budget.
 

Let’s say for the King Power Group this is £100,000,000. I’m guessing each KP business would submit a business case for a proportion of that pot of money. 
 

Leicester might request £30,000,000 of that. They then would likely need to validate various player options (at different values), with each having a return on investment, future sales value, wages, yearly signing on bonus etc. They’d potentially be viing for money with the other KP businesses. If King Power aren’t seeing the return on investment for that money, that they would get from another KP business, we may get rejected and have nothing to spend (Sort of like what happened in the summer).
 

Also, would the KP board might potentially be more risk adverse, having seen the returns from our last spending spree, that has been a bit of a disaster, Fofana aside? 
 

Additionally, we all assume that the money from player sales at LCFC are re-invested into the club. In reality we don’t even know if that is true. For all we know, we might have sold Fofana to fund the next stage of payments in King Powers Thailand airport expansion. Only those within King Power / Leicester will know how cash flow works within Leicester / King Power.
 

For all we know, the loans we’ve taken out against TV monies could be for the generally day to day running of the club. If we were to get relegated and struggle to pay those, legally King Power in theory could liquidate Leicester City Football Club, as due to my knowledge King Power aren’t a guarantor? I’m not sure they would do that morally, however people make some strange decisions when losing millions of pounds.

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6 minutes ago, FLINTHAMFC said:

Ain't that the truth.

You can appreciate where you’ve come from, whilst also aspiring to be better.

 

Maybe some people need to temper their expectations though :D

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On 04/01/2023 at 00:02, adejo92 said:

Let's face it, our club was Vichai's baby, not Tops.

 

Top might be included on the official documents as having some ownership, but I'd go as far as saying 100% of decisions were made by Vichai.

 

Top hasn't got a clue. He's inherited something way beyond his capabilities & knowledge and he's sinking us.

Vichai bought it for his son,I was led to believe...

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21 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

1) Top issued a statement a few months back in his programme notes reaffirming his commitment to the club. 

 

2) I have no reason to doubt his commitment as him and his father have always appeared to have had the clubs best interests at heart since they took over and so have built up a great deal of trust over a significant period of time. 

 

3) The only person peddling the lack of commitment narrative is Rodgers, and he talks so much sh*te in-order to protect his own reputation that I don't respect a thing he says. 

 

4) Is it totally inconceivable that they just might be holding back investment for BR given the support he's had previously and a potential lack of confidence in him? Admittedly one might argue if that's the case then just get rid. 

 

5) There's a possibility that money isn't an issue at all but we simply can't spend it due to an over bloated squad and our position in terms of FFP/Sustainability rules. 

 

6) Why announce huge plans for a stadium redevelopment if you have no intention of seeing them through?!? Surely you'd just be setting yourself for a fall. 

 

7) Pure and simply from a business perspective it would make zero sense to cease support now. If he/family want out they won't get anywhere near the value they'd be after from a prospective buyer if we end up in the EFL. 

 

I admit that recent ongoings at the club are rather bizarre and are concerning but again as mentioned previously I think this is largely due to naviety/lack of understanding rather than a deliberate attempt to run the club into the ground. Without doubt I think Top should be given the benefit of the doubt, he and his family have earnt that at least, and fundamentally it is their money that is at stake. 

Thank you for the explanation, I can offer my counter points.

1 - Not enough to do a proper press statement, programme notes felt lazy, and he wouldnt be the first owner to lie.

2 - Him and his father are two different people.  His father acted like he fell in love with the club, Top is acting like its a job.

 

3 - True to a degree, Top has himself to blame for that by not speaking out.  However I feel the players actions speak for themselves as well, our squad is acting like they know the club has no direction.  Seen it many times at other clubs when owner loses interest.

 

4 - Its possible either way on that one.  But if they dont trust him, as you said why is he still in the job? the only answer would be its the kind of thing an owner who has lost interest would which is to keep a dead man walking manager in a job.

 

5 - This is down to if we believe what Top has said. 

 

6 - The plans have been around for a while, cancelling those plans sends a big negative message, we will see if anything actually happens here, personally I am not expecting any work to start.  But of course I might be wrong.

 

7 - We already seeing actions that make no business sense, when interest is lost, the short term takes priority over the long term.

Thanks for the points been made and the acknowledgement recent events have been odd.  I am hoping I am wrong.

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13 hours ago, MancFox24 said:

Or maybe there's been more injuries because we've been a successful team who go deeper into cup competitions and play in Europe without the squad to be able to rotate. And maybe that's the reason Rodgers said that the squad needed a refresh in the summer (and only got told there was no money when they returned for pre season). And alot of the players that we need to get rid of are ones that were bought before Rodgers got here- Soyuncu, Mendy and Iheanacho. Alot of our recruitment was shit long before Rodgers got here.

Without the squad to rotate? We had a squad with plenty of players capable of being rotated back when we were actually in Europe, and we played 6 more games than we did when we were in the championship. The reason we couldn't rotate was because he'd injured them all... the Injuries started before we'd even got into Europe. 

 

Funny that you mention three players perfectly fine as squad players... we've bought Praet and Soumare to replace Mendy, and I think I'd still rather have Mendy than either of them. 

 

13 hours ago, MancFox24 said:

As for alienating squad members, I just don't see it. I can only remember him calling out 3 players by name since he got here. Under, Soyuncu (who he stayed loyal to for way too long) and Vestegaard (a panic buy after Fofana broke his leg- but I guess this was Rodger’s fault as well). As bad as we've been at times this year, I don't get the impression the players aren't playing for him

Praet, Iheanacho (getting dropped despite basically carrying us single handedly for the end of one season). Discarding players when in fine form just means they aren't going to give a s*** when called up. 

 

Signings have been crap before he arrived, yes. But so much has been utterly nonsensical, we've neglected RW and collected CM's, that we got and then decided he didn't want. 

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I don't buy programmes any more and haven't done so for a good few years. 

 

What have the recent chairman comments been like, if anyone has bought them? I know they're generally full of clichés and more of what people want to hear, but just wondered if anything had been said about direction of the club or how the owners see the current form/standing in the league. 

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2 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Thank you for the explanation, I can offer my counter points.

1 - Not enough to do a proper press statement, programme notes felt lazy, and he wouldnt be the first owner to lie.

 

A statement is a statement, if people are going to cry about him not saying anything, how can people then say "oh well he could be lying", they can't win.

2 - Him and his father are two different people.  His father acted like he fell in love with the club, Top is acting like its a job.

Based on what, that's just nonsense.

 

3 - True to a degree, Top has himself to blame for that by not speaking out.  However I feel the players actions speak for themselves as well, our squad is acting like they know the club has no direction.  Seen it many times at other clubs when owner loses interest.

Again, this ism just speculative nonsense. Good players ALWAYS want to move on, Kante and Mahrez and Drinkwater etc all left under his father. A lot of these players have been here a long time and know it's unlikely to improve on what we've already done. That's just realism. We've victims of our own success.

 

4 - Its possible either way on that one.  But if they dont trust him, as you said why is he still in the job? the only answer would be its the kind of thing an owner who has lost interest would which is to keep a dead man walking manager in a job.

They don't want to have to sack the manager, for all of his faults we've had good success under him. As we did with Puel, Ranieri and Pearson, we gave them far longer than the fans thought they should have.

 

5 - This is down to if we believe what Top has said.

Has he or anyone else ever given you cause to not believe them> 

2 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

 

6 - The plans have been around for a while, cancelling those plans sends a big negative message, we will see if anything actually happens here, personally I am not expecting any work to start.  But of course I might be wrong.


It would be fool hardy to break ground at this moment, it doesn't show a lack of care or support if they don't.
 

7 - We already seeing actions that make no business sense, when interest is lost, the short term takes priority over the long term.

 

He's provided more financial support personally and via king power since covid than they did previously.

Thanks for the points been made and the acknowledgement recent events have been odd.  I am hoping I am wrong.

 

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19 hours ago, Claridge said:

What a load of nonsense, sound like some idiotic class war warrior. Some people seem to be so entitled and ignore what the club was like before they came. Massively nauseating

I'm trying to look for some argument in here but all I can see is insults.

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we all said Rodgers would be shit at signings. the club maybe should have had the same view as us and sought to mitigate it, maybe they did and Rodgers refused to join without his pal.

 

but 99% of us called it out on here. 

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On 03/01/2023 at 23:21, CosbehFox said:

But here’s the thing I don’t get then - I’m sure Babs can explain it - why do we keep going to an bank to mortgage off future incoming sums of money to provide liquidity in cash? 
 

said elsewhere we seem to ignore the opportunity to sell naming rights and king powers sponsorship is quite modest 

...getting King Power's name out there was a major factor!!!

  Getting into the Premier League was the goal, with all the games being shown all over Europe  and beyond.  This would have been the icing on the cake for Top and Vichai, but to then go and win the league was something that was more than could have been expected.  For the outlay in purchasing the club, the advertising budget was nothing for bringing their company to the fore.

  Keeping the name of the stadium keeps the brand name in the publics eye, and sponsorship (FBS) was a way of introducing much needed funds to help fund the club.

  As previously stated, the fact that Vichai's probate situation has not yet been finalised, and the perceived family infighting needs to be addressed, before Top can assess how he can take King Power, and this club forward. 

  We appear to be at an impasse, we are at present muddling through.

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On 05/01/2023 at 12:15, Fox92 said:

Using two clubs that were once run poorly as examples isn't an argument.

 

There are plenty of well run clubs in the Country, more well run than not.

 

The whole "where would we be without King Power" just doesn't make sense. They haven't taken us from non league like Wigan. We've played third tier football once in our entire history. Don't pretend we're lucky to be in the top flight.

...the investment brought in by King Power enabled us to get ourselves out of the Championship!!!

  We would more than likely still be there if KP had not chosen to invest and defer payback of monies that they had put into the club, and converted to shares.

  The consortium who put in money to get us out of administration never got their money back, we were floundering. 

  All that has comes from their involvement with the club, winning the league, the Premier league and FA Cup, playing in the Champions League, playing in Europe, does not happen,  we needed to have had the finance available, in order to have been able to be in a position to achieve all this.

  Their investment changed everything!!

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On 05/01/2023 at 18:25, Sly said:

It depends really, only those working within the King Power Group will understand how they go around capital purchases like transfers etc. 

 

In a normal business model for a large organisation, you’d typically have a  annual capital expenditure budget.
 

Let’s say for the King Power Group this is £100,000,000. I’m guessing each KP business would submit a business case for a proportion of that pot of money. 
 

Leicester might request £30,000,000 of that. They then would likely need to validate various player options (at different values), with each having a return on investment, future sales value, wages, yearly signing on bonus etc. They’d potentially be viing for money with the other KP businesses. If King Power aren’t seeing the return on investment for that money, that they would get from another KP business, we may get rejected and have nothing to spend (Sort of like what happened in the summer).
 

Also, would the KP board might potentially be more risk adverse, having seen the returns from our last spending spree, that has been a bit of a disaster, Fofana aside? 
 

Additionally, we all assume that the money from player sales at LCFC are re-invested into the club. In reality we don’t even know if that is true. For all we know, we might have sold Fofana to fund the next stage of payments in King Powers Thailand airport expansion. Only those within King Power / Leicester will know how cash flow works within Leicester / King Power.
 

For all we know, the loans we’ve taken out against TV monies could be for the generally day to day running of the club. If we were to get relegated and struggle to pay those, legally King Power in theory could liquidate Leicester City Football Club, as due to my knowledge King Power aren’t a guarantor? I’m not sure they would do that morally, however people make some strange decisions when losing millions of pounds.

..or the loan taken out is paid back over a period of say 5 years amortised at £20m per year!!!

 As this is money is leveraged against final position, then you are adding  more expense to the next years budget. If we have made 4 payments by now, then we would only have another £20m before the loan is cleared.

  A reprisal of this for the stadium is sustainable, we probably have the money available to us but not drawn down as yet. If we commit and start the dig next year we can still afford to pay back £20m per annum to finance the build.

 Once all these builds are paid for, we then have the finance to invest in the squad and will be future proofed to an extent. 

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2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...the investment brought in by King Power enabled us to get ourselves out of the Championship!!!

  We would more than likely still be there if KP had not chosen to invest and defer payback of monies that they had put into the club, and converted to shares.

  The consortium who put in money to get us out of administration never got their money back, we were floundering. 

  All that has comes from their involvement with the club, winning the league, the Premier league and FA Cup, playing in the Champions League, playing in Europe, does not happen,  we needed to have had the finance available, in order to have been able to be in a position to achieve all this.

  Their investment changed everything!!

I'm surprised to hear that, I thought paying off the consortium was part of the takeover.

At the very least they should have something to commemorate what they done for the Club. Be it a Plaque or life membership at the very least.

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16 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

I'm surprised to hear that, I thought paying off the consortium was part of the takeover.

At the very least they should have something to commemorate what they done for the Club. Be it a Plaque or life membership at the very least.

King Power purchased from Mandaric. 

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it all feels a bit stagnated at the mo. Reading everyone’s comments there’s just too much uncertainty and while not all the negatives might be true some very well might just be. I wouldn’t go so far as saying we’ve lost our direction. Vichai’s vision is still strong and worth Persuing. Only top will know what his dad imparted on him in their close conversations. Top is a different guy and we have to accept that. He will make decisions his way. We’d all love for him to be more forthcoming but maybe it’s not his style. Btw Who is in charge of our foxes supporters trust? Can they not set up a closed doors meeting with the board and discuss what’s going on? The fans just want to be put at ease. 

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On 05/01/2023 at 23:25, fuchsntf said:

Vichai bought it for his son,I was led to believe...

This was my understanding also.

 

Top was the Leicester Fan and he talked his Father Vichai into buying the Club.

 

Vichai then very quickly fell in love with us and all things Leicester.  

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This thread is a bit too reactionary. The club's in a tough position to an extent due to risks that failed to materialise and loyalty to a manager. We're all quick to bemoan the lack of loyalty and patience in football. The club stood by Rodgers last year when it was easier to sack him. Rodgers has clearly lost his spark and needs to be put out of his misery. But suggesting the owners also need to go too is extremely short-sighted imo. That level of upheaval would be a bigger risk than all of the bad player buys and salaries paid in the last few years.

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On 05/01/2023 at 12:56, Sly said:

Yes, although it isn’t projected to return to normal levels until 2024.

 

They’ve invested in other business streams as well, so who knows where the priories lie.

 

I wonder what the OHL fans make of King Power?

 

@Phugalu

@Bonanza

@Pelotas

@demakke

As an OHL fan I can only say I'm delighted with King Power!

A lot of Belgian clubs have foreign owners, but most of them don't have the best intentions with their clubs.

 

We're lucky to have them!

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