Time for the owners to sell up

[shiv]

Just now, Gamble92 said:

You think taking loans out against TV money we might not even get because of relegation is a good way to run a club do you?

 

 

That’s not what’s happened which is why you’re totally clueless. Loans have only been taken out against money already owed, not future tv money. Keep fabricating lies if it makes you feel better 

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Top being disinterred personally or financially is essentially fine as long as the DoF is competent - Rudkin isn't. PL clubs don't need to have 100s of millions pumped in, we generate enough revenue to be completive but instead we've signed lots of unsellable £15m+ dross. 

 

If Top binned off Rudkin and Whelan and hired top a 5% DOF and football CEO, we'd be fine. The parish Whelan gets is ludicrous - we're in a financial mess, the marketing, sales, ticketing merchandising, catering, social media act is all subpar for a club of our size now. 

 

 

I’ll drink to that 

[CosbehFox]

6 minutes ago, shiv said:

That’s not what’s happened which is why you’re totally clueless. Loans have only been taken out against money already owed, not future tv money. Keep fabricating lies if it makes you feel better 

You sure about that ?

[FoxyPalace.com]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

You sure about that ?

This is dangerous game of short term gains ! 

[StanSP]

56 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

Sounds much more like it.

 

Some serious barrel scraping going on to defend this complete sham of an ownership for years now.

For years? Were you piping up about anything 3 or 4 years ago? I very much doubt it

 

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

What? The glazers throw no money in. Man Utd just make an obscene amount of money thanks to merchandising, commercial deals and a ridiculously big stadium that sells out every week.

With the wages etc as well? They may not pump extra money in but if there is genuinely a need for more money than they spend then the game is even more broken than we thought. 

 

Its a business investment they are within there rights to spend as little as they want as long as the club keeps moving forward. 

 

Id have no problem with our owners not spending every penny we have... its just the balance of running the club well. I dont think anyone is here demanding we throw money at it for the sake of it, most of the comments on Gonzalez were one about it being too much money to spend. We just have problem areas that need fixing.... fix them and the club has potential to make more money. 

 

I just think theres a big difference from neglect and  having to invest your own dime. 

 

 

[SecretPro]

5 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

You sure about that ?

Well that's us and Forest fooked if we get relegated then, which makes the lack of action even more shocking.

[filbertway]

4 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

With the wages etc as well? They may not pump extra money in but if there is genuinely a need for more money than they spend then the game is even more broken than we thought. 

 

Its a business investment they are within there rights to spend as little as they want as long as the club keeps moving forward. 

 

Id have no problem with our owners not spending every penny we have... its just the balance of running the club well. I dont think anyone is here demanding we throw money at it for the sake of it, most of the comments on Gonzalez were one about it being too much money to spend. We just have problem areas that need fixing.... fix them and the club has potential to make more money. 

 

I just think theres a big difference from neglect and  having to invest your own dime. 

 

 

It has been poorly run and Rodgers and Rudkin have to take the fall for it. The spending has been abysmal and if Top doesn't make the correct decision then he's not fit to run the club.

 

I said a month or so ago that I'm giving top the benefit of the doubt as he may see the summer as the chance to get things back on the right track. If I don't see sign of a plan or progression come August though then I'll lose trust in him.

[Lambert09]

8 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Well that's us and Forest fooked if we get relegated then, which makes the lack of action even more shocking.

Well maybe im mistaken but even though we put it against Tv money, was this not just technically taking an advance on the money we will receive for Fofana early? 

 

 

Edited 17 January 2023 by Lambert09

[Gamble92]

10 minutes ago, StanSP said:

For years? Were you piping up about anything 3 or 4 years ago? I very much doubt it

 

There was a few threads expressing concern but obviously when you are winning an FA Cup because of a very successful scouting model then the concerns were obviously shot down and laughed at.

 

No one's laughing now are they?

[Gamble92]

16 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

You sure about that ?

@shivthe financial expert

[Bordersfox]

34 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Top being disinterred personally or financially is essentially fine as long as the DoF is competent - Rudkin isn't. PL clubs don't need to have 100s of millions pumped in, we generate enough revenue to be completive but instead we've signed lots of unsellable £15m+ dross. 

 

If Top binned off Rudkin and Whelan and hired top a 5% DOF and football CEO, we'd be fine. The parish Whelan gets is ludicrous - we're in a financial mess, the marketing, sales, ticketing merchandising, catering, social media act is all subpar for a club of our size now. 

 

 

Good lord!

[RedSoxUK]

I trust @shiv to give me confidence that the board / owners actually aren't a bunch of lucky frauds.

[turlo]

15 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

Well maybe im mistaken but even though we put it against Tv money, was this not just technically taking an advance on the money we will receive for Fofana early? 

 

 

Yes it's against guaranteed revenue, which the Premier League sign  off on the loan deed as the monies owed to Macqaurie are paid directly by the Premier League when the TV money stage payment is due. However, we're paying between 8-10% interest on those loans and it raises the question what are we doing with TV money now that we're going to need in 2-3 years time to pay the bills. We might've only borrowed proportion of future TV money as the amount's we've borrowed was not disclosed but will be able to see when the clubs accounts for 2022 are released next month

[chapero82]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

For years? Were you piping up about anything 3 or 4 years ago? I very much doubt it

 

I did and this whole forum laughed at me.. not one person said I was right! but I was spot on with my judgement  

[Lcfc098]

End of the day we’re in serious trouble if we go down and it’s looking likely. We’re probably in trouble even if we stay up tbh.

[sm1]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

Top being disinterested personally or financially is essentially fine as long as the DoF is competent - Rudkin isn't. PL clubs don't need to have 100s of millions pumped in, we generate enough revenue to be completive but instead we've signed lots of unsellable £15m+ dross. 

 

If Top binned off Rudkin and Whelan and hired top a 5% DOF and football CEO, we'd be fine. The praise Whelan gets is ludicrous - we're in a financial mess, the marketing, sales, ticketing merchandising, catering, social media etc are all subpar for a club of our size now. 

 

 

Spot on. Our success hasn't been built on the owners pumping ridiculous amounts like Man City or Chelsea. Its been based on being smart in our scouting and maximising our assets. That business acumen seems to have completely vanished, with massive wages and the the likes of Youri, Perez and Cags, almost 90M in assets, leaving for free. What we need is  Whelan, Rudkin and Rodgers replacements as opposed to a Top replacement. The problem it seems, is that Top still thinks these guys are doing a good job.

[splinterdream]

Didn't Peter Schmeichel do an interview last summer where he said we were skint and nobody believed him.

 

Very worrying if we're borrowing money that could put the club at risk, if true that is unforgivable. Getting relegated is one thing, risking going bust is on a whole new level.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

5 hours ago, StanSP said:

Can we make a forum rule, or some kind of auto message thing, that every time this graph is shared attention is explicitly called out to two things:

 

1) This covers 10 years and runs back into the period of time they were pumping money in to get to the Premier League

 

2) THIS COVERS LOANS - King Power have consistently loaned the club money. But there’s interest payable on that (granted less than you would pay via a bank or specialist lender) so it’s hardly bankrolling the club or pumping money in as some gift

[Freeman's Wharfer]

In the article John Percy wrote the other day there was a giveaway line in there. Quite an easy one to miss…

 

This guy has consistently shown himself to have the true inside track on what’s going on at LCFC. He only writes when he knows something and his articles are rarely spurious nonsense like you’d see in The Sun/The Mirror etc.

 

In his article, he referenced talk in football circles that Top was searching for minority investment. Percy feels to me like the type of writer that wouldn’t reference that in his article unless he felt there was credibility. It was unusual of him to even have a line in there that wasn’t stated fact. So that tells me he’s certain it’s the case he just doesn’t have a solid reference he can use.

 

I think Top has realised that he cannot afford LCFC anymore. But he doesn’t want to let it go - there are understandably many complicated emotional connections for him personally. So he’s looking for minority investors so that he can cling on to the club whilst getting the financial injection we badly need due to King Power having not invested for a significant period of time.

 

But how often does that happen in football these days?
 

I remember West Ham getting some from a Czech investor (I think) recently. More often than not however, these days, it’s a complete takeover. Because if you’re rich enough to invest in a Premier League football club you’re stupidly rich, with enough money to own the whole lot. And investors these days have a purpose (sports-washing, a sports empire, a vanity project) that minority stakes and being a big part player don’t allow them autonomy to achieve.

 

It feels to me likely that there’ll be a long and unsuccessful search for minority investment before he has to swallow his medicine and sell the club in its entirety. The question is what state the club is in and what price he’ll be able to ask for based on the sharp decline we’re seeing right now.
 

 

[StanSP]

Just now, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Can we make a forum rule, or some kind of auto message thing, that every time this graph is shared attention is explicitly called out to two things:

 

1) This covers 10 years and runs back into the period of time they were pumping money in to get to the Premier League

 

2) THIS COVERS LOANS - King Power have consistently loaned the club money. But there’s interest payable on that (granted less than you would pay via a bank or specialist lender) so it’s hardly bankrolling the club or pumping money in as some gift

But they've put money into the club, right? 

[Paninistickers]

22 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

In the article John Percy wrote the other day there was a giveaway line in there. Quite an easy one to miss…

 

This guy has consistently shown himself to have the true inside track on what’s going on at LCFC. He only writes when he knows something and his articles are rarely spurious nonsense like you’d see in The Sun/The Mirror etc.

 

In his article, he referenced talk in football circles that Top was searching for minority investment. Percy feels to me like the type of writer that wouldn’t reference that in his article unless he felt there was credibility. It was unusual of him to even have a line in there that wasn’t stated fact. So that tells me he’s certain it’s the case he just doesn’t have a solid reference he can use.

 

I think Top has realised that he cannot afford LCFC anymore. But he doesn’t want to let it go - there are understandably many complicated emotional connections for him personally. So he’s looking for minority investors so that he can cling on to the club whilst getting the financial injection we badly need due to King Power having not invested for a significant period of time.

 

But how often does that happen in football these days?
 

I remember West Ham getting some from a Czech investor (I think) recently. More often than not however, these days, it’s a complete takeover. Because if you’re rich enough to invest in a Premier League football club you’re stupidly rich, with enough money to own the whole lot. And investors these days have a purpose (sports-washing, a sports empire, a vanity project) that minority stakes and being a big part player don’t allow them autonomy to achieve.

 

It feels to me likely that there’ll be a long and unsuccessful search for minority investment before he has to swallow his medicine and sell the club in its entirety. The question is what state the club is in and what price he’ll be able to ask for based on the sharp decline we’re seeing right now.
 

 

This post should be pinned. Nailed it.

[mod hero]

33 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

In the article John Percy wrote the other day there was a giveaway line in there. Quite an easy one to miss…

 

This guy has consistently shown himself to have the true inside track on what’s going on at LCFC. He only writes when he knows something and his articles are rarely spurious nonsense like you’d see in The Sun/The Mirror etc.

 

In his article, he referenced talk in football circles that Top was searching for minority investment. Percy feels to me like the type of writer that wouldn’t reference that in his article unless he felt there was credibility. It was unusual of him to even have a line in there that wasn’t stated fact. So that tells me he’s certain it’s the case he just doesn’t have a solid reference he can use.

 

I think Top has realised that he cannot afford LCFC anymore. But he doesn’t want to let it go - there are understandably many complicated emotional connections for him personally. So he’s looking for minority investors so that he can cling on to the club whilst getting the financial injection we badly need due to King Power having not invested for a significant period of time.

 

But how often does that happen in football these days?
 

I remember West Ham getting some from a Czech investor (I think) recently. More often than not however, these days, it’s a complete takeover. Because if you’re rich enough to invest in a Premier League football club you’re stupidly rich, with enough money to own the whole lot. And investors these days have a purpose (sports-washing, a sports empire, a vanity project) that minority stakes and being a big part player don’t allow them autonomy to achieve.

 

It feels to me likely that there’ll be a long and unsuccessful search for minority investment before he has to swallow his medicine and sell the club in its entirety. The question is what state the club is in and what price he’ll be able to ask for based on the sharp decline we’re seeing right now.
 

 

What a post this is 👍🏻

[STUHILL]

43 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

In the article John Percy wrote the other day there was a giveaway line in there. Quite an easy one to miss…

 

This guy has consistently shown himself to have the true inside track on what’s going on at LCFC. He only writes when he knows something and his articles are rarely spurious nonsense like you’d see in The Sun/The Mirror etc.

 

In his article, he referenced talk in football circles that Top was searching for minority investment. Percy feels to me like the type of writer that wouldn’t reference that in his article unless he felt there was credibility. It was unusual of him to even have a line in there that wasn’t stated fact. So that tells me he’s certain it’s the case he just doesn’t have a solid reference he can use.

 

I think Top has realised that he cannot afford LCFC anymore. But he doesn’t want to let it go - there are understandably many complicated emotional connections for him personally. So he’s looking for minority investors so that he can cling on to the club whilst getting the financial injection we badly need due to King Power having not invested for a significant period of time.

 

But how often does that happen in football these days?
 

I remember West Ham getting some from a Czech investor (I think) recently. More often than not however, these days, it’s a complete takeover. Because if you’re rich enough to invest in a Premier League football club you’re stupidly rich, with enough money to own the whole lot. And investors these days have a purpose (sports-washing, a sports empire, a vanity project) that minority stakes and being a big part player don’t allow them autonomy to achieve.

 

It feels to me likely that there’ll be a long and unsuccessful search for minority investment before he has to swallow his medicine and sell the club in its entirety. The question is what state the club is in and what price he’ll be able to ask for based on the sharp decline we’re seeing right now.
 

 

It's the only thing that connects all the dots really and explains the weird things going on at the club.

 

1) Can't afford to run the club anymore

2) Doesn't want to admit that to the fans, hence the FFP excuse

3) Emotionally attached to the club and so doesn't want to sell it all

4) Therefore, only option is to seek minor investment, which will be notoriously difficult and may come to nothing

 

Meanwhile, Leicester could be relegated. 

 

A horrible reality is emerging! 

 

Let's hope we somehow manage to stay up this season and Top quickly re-evaluates his plan. Selling is the only viable long-term option, if the above is indeed true. 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

You sure about that ?

Interestingly Kieran didn't reference this when assessing just how bleak our financial status is should we suffer relegation. He said that our TV money from parachute payments would drop to about £40-45m but with various assets we'd cash in on there'd be plenty to rebuild at Championship level. 

 

The way I've read these numerous loans is they are secured again future PL TV money for a few years based on us generating £100-150m a season, so a drop to less than half that for a year or two is an absolute bloodbath.