Time for the owners to sell up

[los dedos]

Interesting one this, let's get Rudders out to talk next press conference. 😁

 

Edited 17 January 2023 by los dedos

[chapero82]

33 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Interestingly Kieran didn't reference this when assessing just how bleak our financial status is should we suffer relegation. He said that our TV money from parachute payments would drop to about £40-45m but with various assets we'd cash in on there'd be plenty to rebuild at Championship level. 

 

The way I've read these numerous loans is they are secured again future PL TV money for a few years based on us generating £100-150m a season, so a drop to less than half that for a year or two is an absolute bloodbath.

And it's about to become a reality

[Happy Fox]

If the ENIC Levy rumour is true you take that level of investment it’s not quite Qatari gulf state level of backing but it’s good enough to be Top 7 level and build on that. 

[Gamble92]

@shiv Where you gone after my point was proven right? Gone a bit quiet after calling me clueless

[fox_favourite]

I’m not at the stage of the owners selling up just yet. But I do feel we need answers, even just some sort of communication to the fans about things. We’d respect a bit of honesty as well. I know they don’t want to weaken our position if IF we dip into the transfer market, but we do need something. I think for most, the silence is deafening. 

[fox_favourite]

3 hours ago, los dedos said:

Interesting one this, let's get Rudders out to talk next press conference. 😁

 

This is what I mean and Conte is right. Why is the manager answering questions about the finance side/etc…this should be Rudders, even just every so often to take questions about the running of the club. In any other job, you wouldnt ask a question to a manager that only a director/ceo/owner can answer!! The manager would escalate it. 

Edited 18 January 2023 by fox_favourite

[grobyfox1990]

5 hours ago, fox_favourite said:

This is what I mean and Conte is right. Why is the manager answering questions about the finance side/etc…this should be Rudders, even just every so often to take questions about the running of the club. In any other job, you wouldnt ask a question to a manager that only a director/ceo/owner can answer!! The manager would escalate it. 

Conte is full of it, excuse after excuse to cover up for failings. He gets paid the mega bucks because part of his job description is being the external face of the club every day. He is able to answer these questions as he’s briefed to the hilt, he doesn’t want to as he’s  severely underperforming in his role and trying to deflect 

[Claudio Fannieri]

31 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Conte is full of it, excuse after excuse to cover up for failings. He gets paid the mega bucks because part of his job description is being the external face of the club every day. He is able to answer these questions as he’s briefed to the hilt, he doesn’t want to as he’s  severely underperforming in his role and trying to deflect 

Reminds me of someone else …….

[Happy Fox]

I do think the club is for sale, I do think there will be a domino effect now Qatar looking to buy Spurs, Ratcliffe Manchester United, there were rumours of us for sale back last October. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case, even Percy’s article alludes to some form of outside investment.

[BSLBPod]

18 hours ago, StanSP said:

Listening to the @BSLBPod with Kieran Maguire on it, it explained quite a lot. Two things they mentioned in regards to the owner stood out:

 

- Sustainability - owners are making cuts to ensure we continue with ensuring our high levels of sustainability. This makes sense, and is the 'calm' approach in amongst the current panic we're all feeling about what's going on now and what could happen in the near future i.e. relegation.

 

- Owner issues - Top & co really do have financial problems and aren't plowing money into the club like previously, which is then having a domino effect across the club. This also makes sense, but is also indicative of the stark reality we find ourselves in, in having to make cutbacks. This is having a devastating effect on what Rodgers can do with transfers, but also inability to extend contracts/offer what other clubs can for valuable assets.

 

The sting in the tail, if you can call it that, is the FFP confusion. Last year we were concerned about FFP causing limitations on what we could do in summer. According to Maguire, FFP isn't actually that much of a hindrance and we're covered or not affected/impacted by it as first feared, and it shouldn't cause us inability to do any business. When you strip back what doesn't get taken into account for some FFP figures, we're actually quite well below the threshold where we should begin to worry about sanctions.

 

Taking that into account, it makes me think the latter of the 2 things above is more likely to be true and affecting us more, compared to the first reason of sustainability.

 

And all the more reason why we need some kind of statement or reassurance, and just honesty, from the owners. For it to have gone so quiet makes it more concerning. The fact it's taken a journalist, an extremely articulate one at that to his credit, to clear some things up is not how it should be. We need some clarity, some honesty, something to show us that the owners still have some resonance of respect for us as fans - after all, we'll be the ones that are here long after they're gone, and we were here before they rocked up anyway.

Thanks mate - hope you enjoyed it! Kieran is absolutely brilliant isn't he!

[StanSP]

8 minutes ago, BSLBPod said:

Thanks mate - hope you enjoyed it! Kieran is absolutely brilliant isn't he!

Very good. First time listening to it, the bit with Maguire was very interesting. Especially considering he makes the same kind of similarity for Brighton in terms of their finances. 

[turlo]

11 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Interestingly Kieran didn't reference this when assessing just how bleak our financial status is should we suffer relegation. He said that our TV money from parachute payments would drop to about £40-45m but with various assets we'd cash in on there'd be plenty to rebuild at Championship level. 

 

The way I've read these numerous loans is they are secured again future PL TV money for a few years based on us generating £100-150m a season, so a drop to less than half that for a year or two is an absolute bloodbath.

he didn't really clarify that in the comments on his thread either. On one comment he said he doesn't know how much we've borrowed as it wasn't stated in the loan deed and on the other said it will be it will be covered by parachute payments if we go down

 

[Dames]

4 minutes ago, turlo said:

he didn't really clarify that in the comments on his thread either. On one comment he said he doesn't know how much we've borrowed as it wasn't stated in the loan deed and on the other said it will be it will be covered by parachute payments if we go down

 

Which means we'd have absolutely nothing to rebuild the squad with. We can't afford transfers now imagine what it would be like without PL revenues we'd be in very big trouble if we went down. 

[gerblod]

Had i had the determination and intelligence to do an investigative journalist piece on City, I'd want to know who exactly 'the owners' are.

Reading that the repayment of loans taken out with, for one, Macquarie, if we are relegated, will be substantially impacted on by Championship revenues, leaves me thinking that City will be in the pockets of the Aussies rather than self-determining, for years to come. Key players will leave for better pastures and transfer money won't be available for fresh PL standard talent.

Maybe the executive have taken their collective eyes off the ball in not realising that the team's the thing - the ultimate priority.

It's clear now that BR's race here is run. His effectiveness is over. Whoever is, for whatever reason, allowing him to stay on is gambling with the mid-term future of the club. Frightening to think that we could do a Sunderland and that those who should be taking emergency action seemed to be deluding themselves as to the critical nature of the situation. Problem is, you can't fire the owners.

Edited 18 January 2023 by gerblod
Predictive text screw up

[Sol thewall Bamba]

40 minutes ago, turlo said:

he didn't really clarify that in the comments on his thread either. On one comment he said he doesn't know how much we've borrowed as it wasn't stated in the loan deed and on the other said it will be it will be covered by parachute payments if we go down

 

Jesus. 

[Paninistickers]

Hate to be a smart arse, but me and others called out this payday loan facility long ago.

 

Spending next year's revenue, in any business, is terribly dicey at best and grossly irresponsible at worst.

 

That said, The KP money has always stank. All of us prepared to turn a blind eye as we benefitted from the laundering. But this delirious thirst for instant cash was troubling from the get go. To me, it signalled that the sums involved in sustaining a PL club way exceeded the source of mystery money that first bought and financed the club ....KP has been robbing Peter to pay Paul ever since. 

[shiv]

9 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

@shiv Where you gone after my point was proven right? Gone a bit quiet after calling me clueless

I am man enough to admit I missed it and was wrong with my facts clearly - apologies for calling you clueless  

 

In principle I agree it’s a little irresponsible to secure a loan against future revenue. However I’ll reserve my full judgment until we see the next set of accounts as the loan agreement doesn’t highlight the exact amount that’s been borrowed.

 

I also still think the loans are more about cash flow rather than spending money we don’t have, but I can’t say for sure without seeing the accounts.

[Guest bennytwohats]

53 minutes ago, Dames said:

Bored of this line being trotted out. 

 

Questions rightly need to be asked on why there seems to be a massive deterioration across the whole club over the past 2 years. Its not just a small few week period things have been getting worse for a while now. If you want to go bury your head in the sand or continue the deification of the owners that's fine but its not 'digustingly entitled or spoilt' to question why things are going wrong. 

I think you’re bang on here. The problem is that I think sensible ‘questioning’ comments are lost in a sea of venomous vitriol, which I think often do fall into the entitled and spoilt camp. At the other end of the spectrum you’ve got the comments like the one you replied to where nothing can ever be questioned.

 

I’m having to limit my time here at the moment because sensible discussion seems to have gone out the window. I’m all for views that Brendan should be gone and the board need to wake up, but this place has become a cesspit of toxic insults towards Brendan at the moment, so I’m somewhat forgiving to those who see a lot of posts as entitled and spoilt, even if they’re sometimes misdirected (imo).

Edited 18 January 2023 by bennytwohats

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, shiv said:

I am man enough to admit I missed it and was wrong with my facts clearly - apologies for calling you clueless  

 

In principle I agree it’s a little irresponsible to secure a loan against future revenue. However I’ll reserve my full judgment until we see the next set of accounts as the loan agreement doesn’t highlight the exact amount that’s been borrowed.

 

I also still think the loans are more about cash flow rather than spending money we don’t have, but I can’t say for sure without seeing the accounts.

Fair play. I accept your apology. Just buy me a beer and donut that i've missed from Top this year and we're even.

 

I'm just worried that we see at Derby the other side of how this can go. Mel Morris would have run Derby exactly the same as this in the Premier League. He has gone from being well liked to the most hated man in Derby. The difference being the players on the pitch got us up and there's didn't. Then they went into administration. I don't see how we are going to be any different if we go down. Isn't like they'll just write off all that debt to King Power, then there's all the loans against Premier League TV Money. 

 

I wish i could see it like you do and think there's not as much to worry about. But add in that we get zero communication from everyone, and it's just too much to overlook. 

[J. James]

29 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

I’m all for views that Brendan should be gone and the board need to wake up, but this place has become a cesspit of toxic insults towards Brendan at the moment

I felt the same months ago and commented then that people were demonising him for their own imagined faults with zero evidence.

 

"He probably..." , "I'll bet he..." or comments such as " he doesn't want to be here" (based on nothing) becomes fact to stupid people and the hatred becomes irrational and boring - mob bullying and character assassination of a person they have never met and don't know.

I would like to see BR out of our club, but for reasons which are based on facts.

 

I can see the same pattern emerging in regard to our owners, questions and criticism are fine in my book but not the chlldish supposition and ridiculous accusations with no evidence.

[shiv]

22 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

Fair play. I accept your apology. Just buy me a beer and donut that i've missed from Top this year and we're even.

 

I'm just worried that we see at Derby the other side of how this can go. Mel Morris would have run Derby exactly the same as this in the Premier League. He has gone from being well liked to the most hated man in Derby. The difference being the players on the pitch got us up and there's didn't. Then they went into administration. I don't see how we are going to be any different if we go down. Isn't like they'll just write off all that debt to King Power, then there's all the loans against Premier League TV Money. 

 

I wish i could see it like you do and think there's not as much to worry about. But add in that we get zero communication from everyone, and it's just too much to overlook. 

Make no mistake, regardless of the loans getting relegated would be a financial disaster for us. However, I do think some elements get blown out of proportion.

 

We saw with our last accounts, our wage bill is far too high for the revenue we bring in. So naturally I suspect the priority is to sort that out. I imagine there was no expectation that we’d be in a relegation scrap by the owners which was maybe a little naive when you see our form over the past 2 years.

 

I don’t think our financial position is as bad as people make out, but at the same time we are now in a make or break window where we desperately need signings.

 

If we do stay up, I think we will have a very busy summer in the window which is maybe what Top and Co were waiting for. But I agree, the lack of communication is really poor as it has all of us making our own assumptions or judgments. 

[Pliskin]

4 hours ago, Happy Fox said:

I do think the club is for sale, I do think there will be a domino effect now Qatar looking to buy Spurs, Ratcliffe Manchester United, there were rumours of us for sale back last October. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case, even Percy’s article alludes to some form of outside investment.

I do think the king power group would be open to selling the club. And I think there would be genuine interest from some serious consortiums. It would surprise me if over the next year or so we have a major player buy a percentage of the club.

[st albans fox]

9 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I do think the king power group would be open to selling the club. And I think there would be genuine interest from some serious consortiums. It would surprise me if over the next year or so we have a major player buy a percentage of the club.

In the championship??

[Clever Fox]

I understand the lack of info from the Owners is worrying, but it's normal when difficulties arise in a Company.

 

Silence is very often the best way to protect yourself while they work through the difficulties.

Remember in business knowledge is power. Why would KP want to air those difficulties to the world.

 

I still think the main difficulty is the Accident and the difficulties it created washing through KP.

 

It's a whole different ballgame now. Vichai had the power to do pretty much as he wished as ultimately it was his Company.

With his assets being likely distributed amongst the family creates a whole new dynamic for KP.

That's even if this has happened yet as with big companies these matters can take years to resolve.

 

In the meantime we are just pawns in a complex situation waiting for the nest move.

 

[HeskeyForever]

While the current situation is pretty dire and it's hard to see any positives at all:

 

I do still trust Top - I still trust that his heart is just as much with our club and that its value to him spans far beyond one of financial gain or status. When Rodgers was offered his new deal in 2019, he had picked up the third most points in the league and we were absolutely flying. He had injected into us something that we hadn't seen for years. It's all about fine margins - if we'd just picked up 1 more point in those crucial games during Covid and made the Champions League, our fortunes could have been wildly different to the stark situation we're facing now. 

 

He also trusted the people who were supposed to be knowledgable in the game to bring in players that worked so well. I have more loyalty to Top than I do to our recruitment team and ultimately, Brendan Rodgers. That's proven to be his mistake overall - we've never had the kind of money that other PL clubs have, but we were always the smartest investors. 

 

I do agree with the topic of this post - our model is finally falling to pieces and we can only hope that we can do enough to stay in the league. I think at that point, Top will decide to sell at least a large stake of the club. We've got to be careful what we wish for though - a new owner might bring new players in on the short term, but there's no way they will treat us with the respect, love and care that Khun Vichai and Top have since they salvaged us from eternal mediocrity.