Time for the owners to sell up

[Trelleh]

11 hours ago, StanSP said:

Eh? Have you spoken to him? 

Plain to see really

[The People's Hero]

Lots of kneejerk stuff here. We're at the end of a natural cycle and that's evidenced in contracts expiring etc. Nothing lasts forever.

 

Stay up and there will be a summer rebuild of one sort or another. No need to seek change to ownership/stewardship of the club.

[coolhandfox]

People seem to think there are lots of people with billions burning a hole in their pockets who want to spend on football.

 

[Ric Flair]

Fascinating subject this is and a lot of the unrest is purely down to the pain of witnessing our demise, it's understandable. 

 

The way I see it is, we are in a mess. Whether that's correctable in the short or medium term remains to be seen. There's a real risk that relegation occurs before we were able to attempt to correct it, if its simply a case of waiting to get players off our books before we start to rebuild. Relegation will cost this club far more than trying to arrest this this season.

 

I'm also not convinced it's as simple as reduce the wage bill and we're ready to rebuild, the reason I'm suspicious is we tried to play hard ball on certain fringe players in the summer and that has back fired for a team that supposedly only the wage bill is the issue. We were told the club didn't need to, or plan to sell Fofana and yet now Rodgers has once again started to sound uncertain in regards to transfers this month. Where's that money gone? 

 

I respect and adore our owners but in modern football I also am pragmatic enough to understand how fans are unrelenting in their demand that their club is ambitious and especially fans of a club that have achieved success. Sometimes success can be unfair because you are then measured against that, as opposed to those who haven't proven they are capable of doing so. That's why I can understand to a degree the frustrations our fans might have with this ownership and the lack of decision making or poor decision making that is creeping in.

 

I hope Top can steer us through this, I do not question his desire or love for this club. Those who say it was Vichai's and Top doesn't have the same passion make me laugh. It was Top who has followed Leicester since 1997 and was over the moon when the possibility of them buying us came to fruition. He's still attending games, turning up in pre-season and mid season breaks and I am desperate for him to carry on with us, but there is a but. That isn't unconditional, and I don't imagine he'd expect that either. Him and Vichai talked about being custodians of this football club as much as anything, they know what's expected of them.

 

 

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

When people say fans are entitled - what do they mean ?

 

When can a fan criticise without being labelled as "entitled". I have never understood this. Because we were not in PL for 10 years are we entitled as fans and expected to just be appreciative to whatever is thrown their way ? Surely that works with ticket prices. 

 

Throwing the entitlement argument about is pretty poor form. By all means criticise the criticism but there is no fan who has a sense of entitlement given what we have been served for large parts of this season and the summer. Its actually significantly below standard. 

Edited 4 January 2023 by Mickyblueeyes

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Fascinating subject this is and a lot of the unrest is purely down to the pain of witnessing our demise, it's understandable. 

 

The way I see it is, we are in a mess. Whether that's correctable in the short or medium term remains to be seen. There's a real risk that relegation occurs before we were able to attempt to correct it, if its simply a case of waiting to get players off our books before we start to rebuild. Relegation will cost this club far more than trying to arrest this this season.

 

I'm also not convinced it's as simple as reduce the wage bill and we're ready to rebuild, the reason I'm suspicious is we tried to play hard ball on certain fringe players in the summer and that has back fired for a team that supposedly only the wage bill is the issue. We were told the club didn't need to, or plan to sell Fofana and yet now Rodgers has once again started to sound uncertain in regards to transfers this month. Where's that money gone? 

 

I respect and adore our owners but in modern football I also am pragmatic enough to understand how fans are unrelenting in their demand that their club is ambitious and especially fans of a club that have achieved success. Sometimes success can be unfair because you are then measured against that, as opposed to those who haven't proven they are capable of doing so. That's why I can understand to a degree the frustrations our fans might have with this ownership and the lack of decision making or poor decision making that is creeping in.

 

I hope Top can steer us through this, I do not question his desire or love for this club. Those who say it was Vichai's and Top doesn't have the same passion make me laugh. It was Top who has followed Leicester since 1997 and was over the moon when the possibility of them buying us came to fruition. He's still attending games, turning up in pre-season and mid season breaks and I am desperate for him to carry on with us, but there is a but. That isn't unconditional, and I don't imagine he'd expect that either. Him and Vichai talked about being custodians of this football club as much as anything, they know what's expected of them.

 

 

 

I take the statement of a little money as we need 3 or 4 in but only have 30-40m to spend, which is what is left of the Fofana money. 

 

I think the club approach has been we have enough to get through this season and the rebuild. 

 

Our wage bill is going to drop by around 400k-500k per week in the summer, which is around 20m-25m a year.

 

More importantly, our amortisation for player transfers drops from around 65m to 38m in the summer, free up another 20m and drops again to 25m in 23/24.

 

Now freeing up 20m on player amortisation doesn't sound like a lot, but it would allow you to spend 70m on players on 5-year contacts amortised at 14m a year and still be better off. 

 

Roughly our current amortisation looks like this. (Including Faes)

 

22/23 £  62,698,888.89

23/24 £  38,810,000.00

24/25 £  25,210,000.00

25/26 £  14,260,000.00

26/27 £    3,000,000.00

 

So things should be easing up over the next few seasons 

[Leicesterpool]

Even though times are tough at the moment. Yes the football is not good enough at present, I do think we have seen far worse times. The mid 2000's was depressing period constantly fighting for survival in the championship, bringing in some damn awful players managed by the likes Craig levien and Rob Kelly. Them times were so much worse. 

[Tommy G]

Bit kneejerk and dramatic

[Kinowe Soorie]

Get the Shipman’s back…

[KFS]

1 hour ago, The People's Hero said:

Lots of kneejerk stuff here. We're at the end of a natural cycle and that's evidenced in contracts expiring etc. Nothing lasts forever.

 

Stay up and there will be a summer rebuild of one sort or another. No need to seek change to ownership/stewardship of the club.

The worry though is what if we don’t. This is a huge gamble 

[gw_leics772]

12 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

We have invested, I didn’t say that and as above Rudkin and Rodgers have completely ****ed us, but my whole point is unfortunately our owners don’t have the spending power to pull us out of this like others do.

 

We are financed up to our eyeballs in money that is now far from being guaranteed next year, have a manager we have given an insane contract to and a training ground that could well be a symbol of how/why it all went wrong in years to come.

I am surprised by this thread, but...

 

There have been some ****ing monumentally shite decisions.

 

The biggest one for me is not spending a penny in the summer and then (apparently) allowing the same manager to go large in the January transfer window. The one that os renowned for being a shite rip off on the whole. Certainly not one for complete overhauls.

[Leicesterpool]

One thing you would say every time we change the manager there always instant impact and things do change. Pearson sacked in 2015... go on to win the Premier league in 2016 under Raneri, 2017 Claudio sacked, end up with winning six of our last ten under Shakey. Same year Shakey sacked after a poor start. Finish the season top ten under Puel, Puel poor run sacked Rodgers comes in and we finish the season in form. Just shows whenever we have changed the manager, it's worked for the better. Top and his late father never got wrong in the past.

Edited 4 January 2023 by Leicesterpool

[VLC86]

5 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

I am surprised by this thread, but...

 

There have been some ****ing monumentally shite decisions.

 

The biggest one for me is not spending a penny in the summer and then (apparently) allowing the same manager to go large in the January transfer window. The one that os renowned for being a shite rip off on the whole. Certainly not one for complete overhauls.

We were arrogant enough to think we could coast the season or shit enough to that somehow being the only option.

[taupe]

12 hours ago, adejo92 said:

Let's face it, our club was Vichai's baby, not Tops.

I really don't think it was. Vichai was the money man, the business man, the practical hands on one. I was always of the impression though that Top was the one that was behind it all, the heart driven one. Top may not (yet) have the leadership skills, and business acumen, of his dad but I don't doubt for a moment his passion. He perhaps needs help in his position but I don't doubt his motivation nor desire.     

[taupe]

59 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I hope Top can steer us through this, I do not question his desire or love for this club. Those who say it was Vichai's and Top doesn't have the same passion make me laugh. It was Top who has followed Leicester since 1997 and was over the moon when the possibility of them buying us came to fruition

Yes, I have just read this, after I posted above. It's exactly as I see it. 

[VLC86]

3 minutes ago, taupe said:

I really don't think it was. Vichai was the money man, the business man, the practical hands on one. I was always of the impression though that Top was the one that was behind it all, the heart driven one. Top may not (yet) have the leadership skills, and business acumen, of his dad but I don't doubt for a moment his passion. He perhaps needs help in his position but I don't doubt his motivation nor desire.     

If you don’t doubt his motivation why isn’t he here week in week out like he used to be?

[taupe]

Just now, Costock_Fox said:

If you don’t doubt his motivation why isn’t he here week in week out like he used to be?

Because the club isn't his only concern. I think he's there when he can be.

[elvisfmcfly]

1 minute ago, Costock_Fox said:

If you don’t doubt his motivation why isn’t he here week in week out like he used to be?

Why would he want to watch Rodgers ball? 

[5waller5]

I really hope that Khun Top is our (successful) owner for many years. I have no insider info but I do get the impression he does too.

 

The difficulties he and his business are facing currently are plain to see though. The pandemic was brutal for his business, and because we’re now largely over it in the UK doesn’t stop the effects elsewhere.

 

I was travelling around Thailand throughout November and December (2022). 
 

They are a really lovely nation of people, super friendly, humble and well mannered. Talking to restaurant owners / hotel staff / bar owners etc etc the pandemic was never far from their thoughts and they were truly grateful to the few travellers that had made their way back to Thailand.

 

I asked many of them if business had returned to normal - They’d generally smile and say “no where near”… usually saying that customer levels were around 1/4 to a 1/3rd of the pre-pandemic levels.

 

We went through Bhankok airport 6 times during our stay, it was never busy. 
 

KP is a very profitable business… The hero products across the general shop front are dried fruits (eg mango) selling for around 4-5 times the cost of same product in a Bhankok supermarket.

The LCFC shop the same prices as the UK.

 

However, with a severe shortage of footfall they simply won’t generate the turnover they used to.

 

I really hope Thailand and the Srivaddhanaprabha family ride the storm and thrive.
 

It must be difficult to make risky decisions like firing your manager during this turmoil, hopefully he will see that it’s not possible to delay that decision any further.

[gw_leics772]

12 hours ago, Babylon said:

We looked dead and buried under Ranieri for a long time. Pearson withstood being at the foot of the table almost an entire season. 
 

He has credit in the bank with them, and I think they would prefer to muddle on through to the summer if at all possible. 

Do you genuinely think they will change it if we do manage to muddle through?

 

 

I dont share your confidence. If it is based on lack of investment and they take responsibility for it, I fear he gets another crack at it.

[VLC86]

11 minutes ago, taupe said:

Because the club isn't his only concern. I think he's there when he can be.

Do you think he is there enough then?

[Ric Flair]

57 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I take the statement of a little money as we need 3 or 4 in but only have 30-40m to spend, which is what is left of the Fofana money. 

 

I think the club approach has been we have enough to get through this season and the rebuild. 

 

Our wage bill is going to drop by around 400k-500k per week in the summer, which is around 20m-25m a year.

 

More importantly, our amortisation for player transfers drops from around 65m to 38m in the summer, free up another 20m and drops again to 25m in 23/24.

 

Now freeing up 20m on player amortisation doesn't sound like a lot, but it would allow you to spend 70m on players on 5-year contacts amortised at 14m a year and still be better off. 

 

Roughly our current amortisation looks like this. (Including Faes)

 

22/23 £  62,698,888.89

23/24 £  38,810,000.00

24/25 £  25,210,000.00

25/26 £  14,260,000.00

26/27 £    3,000,000.00

 

So things should be easing up over the next few seasons 

It's a bit of a potential red herring on getting loads off the wage bill this summer. We've supposedly offered Evans, Soyuncu and Amartey new deals. There's been talk that ideally Rodgers wants Perez to stay and most definitely we are desperate for Tielemans to stay. None of these players are in it for a pay cut are they? So it's very confusing on what on earth we are going to do. 

 

We seem to have to move players on but at the same time refuse to sell fringe players unless it meets our valuation, rather than with the main goal of getting them gone and free up wages.

 

The more I type all this, the more confused I am and the more angry I get at how this club is being ran. I hope I'm very misunderstood or clueless, it wouldn't surprise me.

[adejo92]

23 minutes ago, taupe said:

I really don't think it was. Vichai was the money man, the business man, the practical hands on one. I was always of the impression though that Top was the one that was behind it all, the heart driven one. Top may not (yet) have the leadership skills, and business acumen, of his dad but I don't doubt for a moment his passion. He perhaps needs help in his position but I don't doubt his motivation nor desire.     

I dont doubt Top's love for the club, but I certainly feel he's taken on something far beyond his capabilities.

 

That said, it wasn't a voluntary thing, it's the circumstances of a traumatic occurrence. I'd have thought, that for someone so wealthy, or a family with such business success, he'd be a lot better advised than he clearly is.

 

I guess none of us know the inner workings. I'd love to see Top keep the ownership and thrive, and perhaps this is just all part of a tough learning curve.

 

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

It's a bit of a potential red herring on getting loads off the wage bill this summer. We've supposedly offered Evans, Soyuncu and Amartey new deals. There's been talk that ideally Rodgers wants Perez to stay and most definitely we are desperate for Tielemans to stay. None of these players are in it for a pay cut are they? So it's very confusing on what on earth we are going to do. 

 

We seem to have to move players on but at the same time refuse to sell fringe players unless it meets our valuation, rather than with the main goal of getting them gone and free up wages.

 

The more I type all this, the more confused I am and the more angry I get at how this club is being ran. I hope I'm very misunderstood or clueless, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

Every month that passes makes me more and more sure that we were just very lucky to have Pearson/Walsh and Puel/Macia when we did. There seems to be absolutely no plan from above from a sportive point of view that makes me think any of them have a clue how they want us to run and maximise our potential on the football side of things.

 

Rudkin is one of the luckiest men in football.

 

[CosbehFox]

24 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

 

I really hope Thailand and the Srivaddhanaprabha family ride the storm and thrive.
 

Without being overly political I don’t think the two exist. There’s a storm brewing in Thailand and expect to see scenes akin to Iran over the forthcoming years