Time for the owners to sell up

[taupe]

You don't hold back do you @daggers old boy!

[An Sionnach]

It could be this era is over ,all things pass , but it won't be determined by a couple of close defeats. As always, it is about money , a cost benefit decision. Are the benefits to King Power greater than the costs. They have to decide.

[Daggers]

9 minutes ago, taupe said:

You don't hold back do you @daggers old boy!

No sacred cows, no gods, no masters.

 

No one is ever beyond criticism.

 

No one is ever beyond reproach.

[taupe]

I do genuinely believe there is a rejigging of some kind going on at top/Top level. How that'll eventuate, who knows?

 

Historically we've been a yo-yo club, maybe we're entering another cycle/iteration. 

[Daggers]

Just now, taupe said:

I do genuinely believe there is a rejigging of some kind going on at top/Top level. How that'll eventuate, who knows?

 

Historically we've been a yo-yo club, maybe we're entering another cycle/iteration. 

Just a shame nobody from the club ever says anything anymore

[sylofox]

On 04/01/2023 at 09:01, Dames said:

If the King Power business is in a bad place and he doesn't have the time, energy or money to run this football club he should sell up and move on. It might be a nice little hobby and plaything for him but to us its a lot more. 

Better the devil you know.

Rather stay as we are with owners that care than end up like cov or pompey. Or owners that want to change our colours or name

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 minute ago, sylofox said:

Better the devil you know.

Rather stay as we are with owners that care than end up like cov or pompey. Or owners that want to change our colours or name

A second division club like Cov? Could easily happen under King Power's watch.

[Babylon]

13 hours ago, MancFox24 said:

It's ironic that you say Rodgers is all about Rodgers when you yourself appear to be all about Rodgers. Do you know how many of the £60 million worth of players were his signings? Bertrand definitely was, Vestegaard maybe (with a helping hand from Schmeichel and only after Fofana got crocked), but do you really think he identified Daka and Soumare? And he's not responsible for handing out contracts like it's monopoly money either. As for blaming him for all of our injury problems, not quite sure what your point is. That he injured them himself in training? I guess the fact you weren't happy with the football we were playing when finishing 5th twice and winning the FA cup shows that you were never going to like Rodgers whatever he did. But if you think all our problems go away by getting rid of him then you're in for a nasty surprise. 

Have you actually paid any attention to what goes on at the club.

 

We installed a head of recruitment at his request, Congerton was HIS man. We were warned and warned by Sunderland and Celtic fans that he was absolute bobbins, and Rodgers says he has the final say on transfers. 

 

So you can say that the people at the top allowed him to do all of that and gave him too much control, that's fine and it's true. But if you are trying to absolve him and HIS man of transfers, when they are literally the two guys with final say on who we sign, that's laughable. 

 

We had a great injury record before he arrived. Rennie was go given the green light to dictate workloads and training schedules. Since Rodgers came in, the injuries have gone through the roof and we've binned off a bloke who had an incredible record for us. Why exactly do you think that was? You don't get rid of part of the furniture with a great track record without the manager pushing for it due to disagreements. His excuses and reasoning was also total bull plop that made no sense, as he then backtracked on it down the road. 

 

I don't think the problems immediately vanish, because he's overseen a total shit show of a deterioration of the squad. Through poor signings, wrecking players with injuries and alienating so many I doubt they want to be here. We're in a mess and it's going to take a lot of time to sort this shit out. 

 

Questions have to be asked about others, the DOF and his inexperience, once again causing issues in certain areas. He's learnt as we go along, but letting the wage bill spiral is a big mess... but essentially it does only become a problem when you sign shit. Nobody had an issue with a large wage to turnover % when we were doing well. Nobody is absolved from criticism, but the manager has been given more power than most have had here for a long time, previously others worked within OUR system. He's created his own and it's slowly crumbled. 

Edited 5 January 2023 by Babylon

[Dames]

21 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Have you actually paid any attention to what goes on at the club.

 

We installed a head of recruitment at his request, Congerton was HIS man. We were warned and warned by Sunderland and Celtic fans that he was absolute bobbins, and Rodgers says he has the final say on transfers. 

 

So you can say that the people at the top allowed him to do all of that and gave him too much control, that's fine and it's true. But if you are trying to absolve him and HIS man of transfers, when they are literally the two guys with final say on who we sign, that's laughable. 

 

We had a great injury record before he arrived. Rennie was go given the green light to dictate workloads and training schedules. Since Rodgers came in, the injuries have gone through the roof and we've binned off a bloke who had an incredible record for us. Why exactly do you think that was? You don't get rid of part of the furniture with a great track record without the manager pushing for it due to disagreements. His excuses and reasoning was also total bull plop that made no sense, as he then backtracked on it down the road. 

 

I don't think the problems immediately vanish, because he's overseen a total shit show of a deterioration of the squad. Through poor signings, wrecking players with injuries and alienating so many I doubt they want to be here. We're in a mess and it's going to take a lot of time to sort this shit out. 

 

Questions have to be asked about others, the DOF and his inexperience, once again causing issues in certain areas. He's learnt as we go along, but letting the wage bill spiral is a big mess... but essentially it does only become a problem when you sign shit. Nobody had an issue with a large wage to turnover % when we were doing well. Nobody is absolved from criticism, but the manager has been given more power than most have had here for a long time, previously others worked within OUR system. He's created his own and it's slowly crumbled. 

Not just that he's essentially salted the earth to ensure that any rebuild is going to be time consuming and difficult. Even if we do remove Rodgers a lot of the problems behind the scenes will remain for a long time because he has systemically broken down everything that was good about the club to satisfy his own ego. 

[Clever Fox]

17 minutes ago, taupe said:

I do genuinely believe there is a rejigging of some kind going on at top/Top level. How that'll eventuate, who knows?

 

Historically we've been a yo-yo club, maybe we're entering another cycle/iteration. 

There's obviously things going on we don't know about, The accident made sure of that.

I think it was Vichai who said that the Club had to become self sufficient and that's the path we are on.

The Training ground was a great investment to begin with. Not only is it a brilliant place to work but it will attract players that we cannot afford otherwise. It will also attract a lot of elite young talent who otherwise might have gone to Utd, Chelsea etc. 

Just think about it, One elite player coming through could go on to pay for the whole investment in the Training ground.

Not to mention the others who can make a career here like KDH and Harvey. This project was brilliant forward thinking and is exactly what I would have done.

When you add in the Ground expansion and the new Commercial developments it's not hard to see the direction the Club is going in.

Yes, It's a pity the team is struggling at the minute leaving aside the Rogers argument. We also know that thing can change quickly in Football for the good or bad and Money doesn't always fix the problem. Look at Utd,  Liverpool currently , Everton, and West Ham.

 

The Model is fine, it just may take a little longer to get there. Just relax and believe in those at the top of the Club.

They haven't done too badly so far. Either with moving the Club forward or success on the pitch.

 

[Babylon]

12 minutes ago, Dames said:

Not just that he's essentially salted the earth to ensure that any rebuild is going to be time consuming and difficult. Even if we do remove Rodgers a lot of the problems behind the scenes will remain for a long time because he has systemically broken down everything that was good about the club to satisfy his own ego. 

The summer wound me up, not because we didn't sign anyone. But because all he did was run down the squad we had, what they could achieve... purely on the basis of absolving himself of any blame. 

[taupe]

2 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

it just may take a little longer to get there

That's my take. The plan/path has been disrupted, that's all. I'm relaxed about it too. It is important that we stay up (even if it's only on goal difference!) but I appreciate the club is juggling issues at the moment, trying to deal with stuff short term/long term, expected/unexpected etc etc etc. I've no idea what's going on, nor how things stand (obviously) so have no ideas nor expectations but I have a kind of faith in the club.

[StanSP]

8 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Just think about it, One elite player coming through could go on to pay for the whole investment in the Training ground.

 

I thought it was pretty much paid for from the Maguire sale anyway?

[Babylon]

6 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

There's obviously things going on we don't know about, The accident made sure of that.

I think it was Vichai who said that the Club had to become self sufficient and that's the path we are on.

The Training ground was a great investment to begin with. Not only is it a brilliant place to work but it will attract players that we cannot afford otherwise. It will also attract a lot of elite young talent who otherwise might have gone to Utd, Chelsea etc. 

Just think about it, One elite player coming through could go on to pay for the whole investment in the Training ground.

Not to mention the others who can make a career here like KDH and Harvey. This project was brilliant forward thinking and is exactly what I would have done.

When you add in the Ground expansion and the new Commercial developments it's not hard to see the direction the Club is going in.

Yes, It's a pity the team is struggling at the minute leaving aside the Rogers argument. We also know that thing can change quickly in Football for the good or bad and Money doesn't always fix the problem. Look at Utd,  Liverpool currently , Everton, and West Ham.

 

The Model is fine, it just may take a little longer to get there. Just relax and believe in those at the top of the Club.

They haven't done too badly so far. Either with moving the Club forward or success on the pitch.

 

It's a knife edge model, it's very hard to achieve without extra financial stimulus. We've done amazingly so far as a club to grow off the pitch and on it, until recently. It's a very difficult balance to strike, and it was based on us selling players. Problem is now... we've run out of assets. Players running down contracts and injuries wrecking players has lost his perhaps £100-£150m worth of income we probably were banking on at some point. 

[Babylon]

Just now, StanSP said:

I thought it was pretty much paid for from the Maguire sale anyway?

Nah, that money was used on wages and signings. 

[Chrysalis]

15 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

I personally don't want Top to go. I understand people's frustrations and would hate to see all of the progress made during the owners tenure be ruined by poor management. I think Top is committed to the club and like the fans he will be devastated with what's happening. 

 

Having thought about the situation and without being too critical of Rodgers (although for the record I'll be glad to see the back of him), I think the board and Top in particular rely heavily upon having a manager/DOF that understand the football business as I think they're quite naive when it comes to the workings of running a football club and need that input. Rodgers may be a great coach but I don't think he gets what's needed to be successful as a club/business. 

 

Looking back at all of our managers since the owners came on board, I think only Pearson and Puel with the assistance of Macia are the only two where we've genuinely looked like we have a plan/vision. At all other times whether it be Sousa, Shakespeare, Rodgers, and it pains me to say it but even Ranieri, all of whom like to focus their efforts on the training pitch, we've regressed. I'm not suggesting that either Pearson or Puel were the most successful, rather that they put in place systems that gradually progressed the club from when they took over and left a legacy for the next manager to succeed. Let's not forget also that the majority of these managers were appointed whilst Vichai was alive so I think this isn't a new trend that's suddenly occurred since Top took the reins. 

 

I think Top with the right manager who understands the broader picture of running a football club is still the man to continue moving us in the right direction. Having money is great and clearly enhances a teams chances of finishing higher up the league but it's the owners commitment and application to achieve success that fundamentally determines what is or isn't achievable, Stoke City being a prime example. 

Thats all great and all, but you didnt explain why you think Top is committed.

[StanSP]

Is KP as a business picking up now following the COVID hit? 

 

Quite well documented how much of a hit the business took, but is it recovering?

[Sly]

24 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Is KP as a business picking up now following the COVID hit? 

 

Quite well documented how much of a hit the business took, but is it recovering?

Yes, although it isn’t projected to return to normal levels until 2024.

 

They’ve invested in other business streams as well, so who knows where the priories lie.

 

I wonder what the OHL fans make of King Power?

 

@Phugalu

@Bonanza

@Pelotas

@demakke

Edited 5 January 2023 by Sly

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, sylofox said:

Better the devil you know.

Rather stay as we are with owners that care than end up like cov or pompey. Or owners that want to change our colours or name

Using two clubs that were once run poorly as examples isn't an argument.

 

There are plenty of well run clubs in the Country, more well run than not.

 

The whole "where would we be without King Power" just doesn't make sense. They haven't taken us from non league like Wigan. We've played third tier football once in our entire history. Don't pretend we're lucky to be in the top flight.

Edited 5 January 2023 by Fox92

[Sly]

Here’s the rank by nett worth:

 

20. Brentford – Matthew Benham (£3m)

19. Leeds – Andrea Radrizzani (£344m)

18. Nottingham Forest – Evangelos Marinakis (£505m)

17. Brighton – Tony Bloom (£765m)

16. Bournemouth – Maxim Denim (£900m)

15. West Ham – David Sullivan and David Gold (£1.62bn)

14. Everton – Farhad Moshiri (£1.9bn)

13. Liverpool – John Henry (£2.14bn)

12. Southampton – Gao Jisheng (£2.3bn)

11. Leicester – Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha (£2.9bn)

10 Crystal Palace – Joshua Harris (£3.36bn)

9. Manchester United – The Glazers (£3.5bn)

8. Tottenham – Joe Lewis (£3.6bn)

7. Wolves – Guo Guangchang (£4.5bn)

6. Aston Villa – Nassef Sawiris (£5.3bn)

5. Fulham – Shahid Khan (£5.8bn)

4. Arsenal – Stan Kroenke (£6.35bn)

3. Chelsea – Todd Boehly and Clearlake Capital (£10.86bn)

2. Man City – Sheikh Mansour (£22.9bn)

1. Newcastle – Saudi Public Investment Fund (£320bn)

 

Article ranking by morals (We finished 14th out of 20, the closer to 20 the better)

 

https://www.football365.com/news/ranking-premier-league-owners-morals-bin-salman-abramovich-mansour

 

Article ranking best owners bad to good (We finished 7th, lower the better)

 

https://www.1sports1.com/premier-league-owners-ranked-from-worst-to-best/amp/

 

Largely opinion based a lot of that. 
 

What it points to, do we have the best owners? Maybe not, do we have the worst? Maybe not. 
 

I mean, someone could get all creative and give them a mean ranking if they could be bothered. I’m guessing our owners would come out closer to the top, than the bottom.

 

Still doesn’t mean we’re not sleep walking into impending Championship football, playing terrible football. 

[CrispinLA in Texas]

2 hours ago, Le Renard said:

Unless the money comes from the middle east, we will be sold to American investment interests.   The American led owners are spending money at Chelsea, but the money is not coming from the ownership's pockets, it is borrowed and they will need a return on their investment. 

 I think our owners have made mistakes over these last couple of years, and they probably have had a reality check.  With King power struggling during the pandemic and a manager who's lost his way, players running down contracts, our club seems to be entering very choppy waters, it could take a couple of seasons to rectify it, and some heads need to roll.  Although the owners loyalty to staff is commendable, it has maybe blind sided them, and a few of the board have got a bit too comfy in their jobs.  They started to believe all the hype, that Leicester were a well run club, and in the meantime they were putting their feet up and patting themselves on the back.

The club does need a refresh, but will the owners have the balls to do it?

Guess who funds Chelsea's Todd Boehly's group Clearlake Capital, it's the Saudi's PIF who bought Newcastle. It's all dirty oil money these days

Edited 5 January 2023 by CrispinLA in Texas

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

It's a knife edge model, it's very hard to achieve without extra financial stimulus. We've done amazingly so far as a club to grow off the pitch and on it, until recently. It's a very difficult balance to strike, and it was based on us selling players. Problem is now... we've run out of assets. Players running down contracts and injuries wrecking players has lost his perhaps £100-£150m worth of income we probably were banking on at some point. 

Absolutely right, which is why the expected Maddison money in the summer has to be very thoughtfully invested or we're absolutely done for! Rodgers cannot be allowed anymore input but then the risk is he'll refuse to integrate anyone he didn't choose. It is therefore essential he goes too. He cannot be trusted anymore in any way, shape or form.

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Absolutely right, which is why the expected Maddison money in the summer has to be very thoughtfully invested or we're absolutely done for! Rodgers cannot be allowed anymore input but then the risk is he'll refuse to integrate anyone he didn't choose. It is therefore essential he goes too. He cannot be trusted anymore in any way, shape or form.

I do worry about the guy we've installed as head of recruitment, I don't see any amazing record there previously. It stinks of us needing to fill a position and literally advertising for the role. Rather than any sort of ongoing due diligence on people out there with great track records and us seeking out who we really want. 

Edited 5 January 2023 by Babylon

[volpeazzurro]

Just now, Babylon said:

I do worry about the guy we've installed as head of recruitment, I don't see any amazing record there previously. It stinks of us needing to fill a position and literally advertising for the role. Rather than any sort of ongoing due diligence on people out there with great track records and us seeking out who we really want. 

I must admit, I couldn't see the attraction or previous history either, I just presumed they know a lot more about it. On the other hand, Congerton's CV appeared pretty transparent and couldn't see how he was still managing to get a job in football!

 

Who are the recruiters of these people, what is their knowledge and expertise? With Congerton you'd surely have to assume Rodgers had some input. Medical and coaching staff? All roads appear to lead to Rome, get rid asap!

[ian__marshall]

51 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Thats all great and all, but you didnt explain why you think Top is committed.

1) Top issued a statement a few months back in his programme notes reaffirming his commitment to the club. 

 

2) I have no reason to doubt his commitment as him and his father have always appeared to have had the clubs best interests at heart since they took over and so have built up a great deal of trust over a significant period of time. 

 

3) The only person peddling the lack of commitment narrative is Rodgers, and he talks so much sh*te in-order to protect his own reputation that I don't respect a thing he says. 

 

4) Is it totally inconceivable that they just might be holding back investment for BR given the support he's had previously and a potential lack of confidence in him? Admittedly one might argue if that's the case then just get rid. 

 

5) There's a possibility that money isn't an issue at all but we simply can't spend it due to an over bloated squad and our position in terms of FFP/Sustainability rules. 

 

6) Why announce huge plans for a stadium redevelopment if you have no intention of seeing them through?!? Surely you'd just be setting yourself for a fall. 

 

7) Pure and simply from a business perspective it would make zero sense to cease support now. If he/family want out they won't get anywhere near the value they'd be after from a prospective buyer if we end up in the EFL. 

 

I admit that recent ongoings at the club are rather bizarre and are concerning but again as mentioned previously I think this is largely due to naviety/lack of understanding rather than a deliberate attempt to run the club into the ground. Without doubt I think Top should be given the benefit of the doubt, he and his family have earnt that at least, and fundamentally it is their money that is at stake.