Patson Daka

[AKCJ]

Just now, Pliskin said:

If we are going to play a more possession based style, but at the pace Maresca seemingly wants to play at, every player needs to be comfortable in possession and have the ability to keep the ball under pressure

That's probably not all that true, really.

 

Man City (the team famed for their possession based style) rarely give the ball to Erling Haaland and he's done pretty well for himself.

 

and a little closer to home, when things were rosy under Rodgers, it was the same scenario with Vardy. Sky Sports would regularly dig out a stat to say that Vardy had had like 4 touches in the first half but then he'd bag two goals.

 

I think having a competent finisher and someone who has good movement counts for a lot. Daka is definitely that sort of player and his pace will absolutely terrify the plodders we'll come up against at this level.

[LCFCJohn]

3 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

You will of course have taken into account the fact that he's only ever played in the Premier League with limited minutes in a poor side.

Enough with such sensible comments like this!

 

This point is one that can be applied to a number of players imo. Rather than being so quick to write players off after the whole club has been a shambles, why don’t we just see how some of them do under a new manager and coaching staff and in a lower division. If they do not subsequently shine in these new circumstances, by all means move them on.

[Finnegan]

I love the irony in accusing me of being triggered but then going off on some butthurt, insecure wobble about how mean I am for posting actual facts.

 

That said, I do find it a little bit difficult not to be patronising when people are being willfully thick. I'm more than happy to sit and casually explain stats to people without the attitude if they're interested and keen.

 

But when you're some random fan sat at home convincing yourself your "sight test" is a better judge of a footballer than statistical analysis then it's a little bit harder to shelve the attitude. 

 

Especially when your "sight test" concludes that a 24 year old man, a 35 cap international, that scored a goal a game, every 50 minutes in fact, in one of Europe's top ten leagues needs to be farmed off to our development squad or sent on loan to OHL to continue his development

 

And a "good chunk" of our fan base thought Albrighton was better than Mahrez, Praet was better than Tielemans and that Maddison and Iheanacho were so bad they should be booed every time they come on the pitch. Forgive me if this doesn't deter me. 

 

Apologies in advance if my smug, condescending tone hurt your feelings buddy. 

 

Edited 4 July 2023 by Finnegan

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Stats give insight but they don't tell the whole story. And they can be cherry picked to support an argument a la Finnegan. Id love to see the stat for percentage of miscontrols or losing the ball/ falling over when pressured for Daka. It is no good being an elite finisher if you can't receive and control a basic pass...

[Dahnsouff]

5 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Stats give insight but they don't tell the whole story. And they can be cherry picked to support an argument a la Finnegan. Id love to see the stat for percentage of miscontrols or losing the ball/ falling over when pressured for Daka. It is no good being an elite finisher if you can't receive and control a basic pass...

Same is true for selecting a 10 second clip from a game (and posting it on YouTube under the title "Danny Ward is unbeatable!" or "Danny Ward moves to Arsenal")

[Basildon Fox]

The only stat that matters for a striker is goals scored.  That is what we brought him here to do and so far he has been unimpressive.

 

We have a new manager in place who may get the best out of him if he stays. If he does and he gets on a roll like at Salzberg then we have a goal machine on our hands. He certainly needs to improve his all-round game.

 

The problem is that is what we thought we were getting.  I am not sure I have seen anything to suggest he will ever be good enough but I hope that he will kick on if he stays. 

 

I think that there are blinkers on some here who will defend him to the very end, even when you can see with your eyes it has been a massive struggle so far.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Just now, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

The only stat that matters for a striker is goals scored.  That is what we brought him here to do and so far he has been unimpressive.

 

We have a new manager in place who may get the best out of him if he stays. If he does and he gets on a roll like at Salzberg then we have a goal machine on our hands. He certainly needs to improve his all-round game.

 

The problem is that is what we thought we were getting.  I am not sure I have seen anything to suggest he will ever be good enough but I hope that he will kick on if he stays. 

 

I think that there are blinkers on some here who will defend him to the very end, even when you can see with your eyes it has been a massive struggle so far.

Oh but apparently you're not allowed to trust your eyes mate, or form any judgement without having checked the underlying stats first. 😂

[les-tah]

Lets not write Daka off. He was a bit part player in a horrendous team. I have no doubt he could easily score 25 in the championship and rough him up ready for the prem again.

[ALC Fox]

When Daka got that four-goal haul against Spartak, he looked like the Vardy heir we all dreamt of. Pacy, direct and an extremely natural finisher.

 

But, he also joined a side that, as we now know, was on the precipice of a slow - and then very quick - collapse. Rodgers' tactics started to fail. Daka was in and out of the side, much like Vardy and Iheanacho were, as Rodgers didn't know who his best striker was or how to get the best out of a squad that was now largely immune to his David Brent style of man management. We were also all about overperforming our xG (i.e. we didn't create lots of good chances), which doesn't bode well if you're rotating strikers so much and therefore they're not high on confidence or given a chance to build up some form.

 

Daka, at times, does still look raw, which is a worry. But I think he's a confidence player, and if you set up a team to suit him, he will bang in the goals at Championship and PL level. Whether Maresca's style will suit him, I don't know. He may need to move on to fulfill his potential.

[Finnegan]

36 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Stats give insight but they don't tell the whole story. And they can be cherry picked to support an argument a la Finnegan. Id love to see the stat for percentage of miscontrols or losing the ball/ falling over when pressured for Daka. It is no good being an elite finisher if you can't receive and control a basic pass...

 

Focusing on stats for productivity of a striker is cherry picking? If you'd bothered to read (and to be clear, I 100% don't expect people to - I've written a hell of a lot of waffle about our strikers stats and I appreciate a lot of people aren't interested and that's fine, different strokes etc) much of what I've written I've been pretty comprehensive in weighing up the three of them including the areas in which Daka falls behind Iheanacho and Vardy (or non Leicester contemporaries.)

 

I can't help the fact there just aren't as many of those as would support your sight test. 

 

It's true I've not really done a massive amount of analysis on "falling over", mostly because it's completely dumb and it apparently doesn't hold back Jack Grealish, Bruno Fernandes, Raheem Sterling, Mo Salah or any other Premier League player that's on the deck any time they get a whiff of the opposition's Lynx Africa. 

 

But what I can tell you, despite preconceptions of Patson Daka being physically too weak for English football (yawn), is that he makes more tackles per 90 minutes (1.11, winning 0.71) than both Iheanacho (0.64/0.33) and Jamie Vardy (0.39/0.26.) 

 

Makes more blocks (0.8) per 90 than Vardy (0.64) but less than Iheanacho (1.05) and more interceptions (0.29) than both Kel (0.12) and Vards (0.07)

 

If you wanted to focus on something he's bad it, it'd be dribbling. He's comfortably the worst forward at the club for take ons, he has a 29.4% success rate trying to dribble by someone which compares to Iheanacho leading at 50% and Vardy at 41.2%. It's why he's by far and away the worst to try and dump out on the wing which was never going to end well. 

 

But this is exactly my point and exactly why his usage under Rodgers was so frustrating and exactly why your eye test is flawed. The statistical profile of Patson Daka is of a penalty box poacher and of a striker that thrives getting off the shoulder of the last man and in to space. If we're hitting the ball at him with his back to goal in areas where he has to physically contest with a centre back to hold the ball up then that's our collective, tactical failure as a team. We might as well be upset with Sammy Braybrook (who funnily enough almost nobody is worried about being too weak for the Championship) for not winning aerial duels.

 

We create chances and put the ball in to space for Daka he is going to score. It's as simple as that. If that's not what Maresca wants a striker to do, if he wants someone to hold the ball up, great, lets get Piroe or whoever else in. Got no problem with that. But if we let Daka go for cheap, some other club is going to have the sense to play to his strengths and he'll be as devastating as he was at Salzburg. 

 

Edited 4 July 2023 by Finnegan

[FoxesWalk]

He won’t be going anywhere

[Arriba Los Zorros]

25 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Focusing on stats for productivity of a striker is cherry picking? If you'd bothered to read (and to be clear, I 100% don't expect people to - I've written a hell of a lot of waffle about our strikers stats and I appreciate a lot of people aren't interested and that's fine, different strokes etc) much of what I've written I've been pretty comprehensive in weighing up the three of them including the areas in which Daka falls behind Iheanacho and Vardy (or non Leicester contemporaries.)

 

I can't help the fact there just aren't as many of those as would support your sight test. 

 

It's true I've not really done a massive amount of analysis on "falling over", mostly because it's completely dumb and it apparently doesn't hold back Jack Grealish, Bruno Fernandes, Raheem Sterling, Mo Salah or any other Premier League player that's on the deck any time they get a whiff of the opposition's Lynx Africa. 

 

But what I can tell you, despite preconceptions of Patson Daka being physically too weak for English football (yawn), is that he makes more tackles per 90 minutes (1.11, winning 0.71) than both Iheanacho (0.64/0.33) and Jamie Vardy (0.39/0.26.) 

 

Makes more blocks (0.8) per 90 than Vardy (0.64) but less than Iheanacho (1.05) and more interceptions (0.29) than both Kel (0.12) and Vards (0.07)

 

If you wanted to focus on something he's bad it, it'd be dribbling. He's comfortably the worst forward at the club for take ons, he has a 29.4% success rate trying to dribble by someone which compares to Iheanacho leading at 50% and Vardy at 41.2%. It's why he's by far and away the worst to try and dump out on the wing which was never going to end well. 

 

But this is exactly my point and exactly why his usage under Rodgers was so frustrating and exactly why your eye test is flawed. The statistical profile of Patson Daka is of a penalty box poacher and of a striker that thrives getting off the shoulder of the last man and in to space. If we're hitting the ball at him with his back to goal in areas where he has to physically contest with a centre back to hold the ball up then that's our collective, tactical failure as a team. We might as well be upset with Sammy Braybrook (who funnily enough almost nobody is worried about being too weak for the Championship) for not winning aerial duels.

 

We create chances and put the ball in to space for Daka he is going to score. It's as simple as that. If that's not what Maresca wants a striker to do, if he wants someone to hold the ball up, great, lets get Piroe or whoever else in. Got no problem with that. But if we let Daka go for cheap, some other club is going to have the sense to play to his strengths and he'll be as devastating as he was at Salzburg. 

 

OK thanks, and mean that, now you've not throwing insults around and taken the time to explain your logic that's a really good and insightful post. I can get behind the idea that if we do play to his strengths (which not too many have) he could be lethal. Just like we did with JV. Still not convinced that he has the all round game to be effective but here is hoping. 🤞

[CosbehFox]

Looking at his training on insta, he’s working on holding up play with Leroy Lita 

[Buzzell]

2 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Whatever the carefully selected stats the likes of @Finnegan dig up and shove in our faces to justify their faith in Daka, he hasn't passed the sight test up until now, he appears to be exceptionally raw and would be better suited in the reserves or sent to OHL for a while to improve his all round game.

 

If he does stay, then I hope Maresca will be working on improving his weaknesses so that he and we can actually benefit from his pace and finishing when he does play. Because at the moment he is a total passenger when he plays and I'm not convinced that dropping down a league solves that. 

 

One thing you can say that is definitely in his favour is that he has the attributes that can't be taught and is lacking in those which can, so provided he has the right attitude and coaching there is hope, and that's the only reason to not cut our losses on him here and now.

 

Sorry if that triggers you Finnegan, and I await the inevitable condescending smartest man in the room reply, but until he performs for us you're going to have to accept a good chunk of our fanbase are not impressed with what we've seen of Daka.

There’s deffo room for improvement with Daka but there’s also a talented player inside somewhere. A season in the Championship with him being our main striker will hopefully do him the world of good. He needs to play consistently for us so that he can show what he can do. He should relish next season.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 hour ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

 Id love to see the stat for percentage of miscontrols or losing the ball/ falling over when pressured for Daka. 

Best I can find;

 

 

Times tackled during take-on per 90

 

Iheanacho 1.36

Vardy 0.68

Daka 0.61

 

 

 

Tackled during take-on %

 

Vardy 48.3%

Daka 44.4%

Iheanacho 43.6%

 

 

 

Miscontrols per 90

 

Daka 3.48

Iheanacho 3.28

Vardy 1.60

 

 

 

Dispossessed per 90 (not including take-ons)

 

Iheanacho 2.88

Daka 1.44

Vardy 0.78

 

 

 

Passes received successfully per 90

 

Iheanacho 30.4

Daka 21.8

Vardy 12.7

 

 

 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

If we are going 3-4-1-2 then Patson Daka in the Championship will be frightening. As he was in Austria. The Championship is a better standard than the top Austrian league but the key is 2 up front and poorer standard of defending = Patson shits goals.

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

If we are going 3-4-1-2 then Patson Daka in the Championship will be frightening. As he was in Austria. The Championship is a better standard than the top Austrian league but the key is 2 up front and poorer standard of defending = Patson shits goals.

Who would be the likely 1 in that formation? Kel or a new signing? 

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Lionator said:

Who would be the likely 1 in that formation? Kel or a new signing? 

New signing, probably Tom Cairney or Vasquez given the direction the club appears to be going down on signings (rumoured and confirmed signings).

[Babylon]

I'll reserve judgement on what he's going to do until I've seen us play under the new manager. Play the right way and I've seen enough to think he'll be a success, conversely play him the wrong way and I've seen enough to know it'll be totally fruitless. 

[brookfox]

Good that both the stats and my eyes confirm that Daka is fast and a good finisher but relatively poor at hold up play and with the ball at his feet. In the right team and setup he'd score goals, I don't think that's up for debate. Or it shouldn't be!

 

My concern for him in the Championship is how much space he's going to get in behind. I imagine most teams will play very deep vs us and be quite happy for us to neatly pass it around in front of them (I'm expecting a fair few sideways passes this season!). Particularly if he's on his own in say a 433/4231 this isn't going to suit Daka at all as it requires the two things he's particularly poor at. Play him in a 2 and I think we'll see him thrive, big question is if this is Mareca's plan, if it's not we may as well cash in.

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, brookfox said:

Good that both the stats and my eyes confirm that Daka is fast and a good finisher but relatively poor at hold up play and with the ball at his feet. In the right team and setup he'd score goals, I don't think that's up for debate. Or it shouldn't be!

 

My concern for him in the Championship is how much space he's going to get in behind. I imagine most teams will play very deep vs us and be quite happy for us to neatly pass it around in front of them (I'm expecting a fair few sideways passes this season!). Particularly if he's on his own in say a 433/4231 this isn't going to suit Daka at all as it requires the two things he's particularly poor at. Play him in a 2 and I think we'll see him thrive, big question is if this is Mareca's plan, if it's not we may as well cash in.

 

I think you'll find he's scored more goals for us in and around the box from finding space and being in the right place than by actually running behind the defensive line. 

 

It's a similar myth to the one that prevails with Jamie Vardy, it was always made out that he was a one trick pony that could only score counter attacking goals but a lot of his work is just getting free in the box. 

 

Keep in mind that when Daka scored a goal a game for Salzburg in the Austrian Bundesliga he was obviously playing for a dominant side that had most of the ball in every game against teams parking the bus. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

44 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Best I can find;

 

 

Times tackled during take-on per 90

 

Iheanacho 1.36

Vardy 0.68

Daka 0.61

 

 

 

Tackled during take-on %

 

Vardy 48.3%

Daka 44.4%

Iheanacho 43.6%

 

 

 

Miscontrols per 90

 

Daka 3.48

Iheanacho 3.28

Vardy 1.60

 

 

 

Dispossessed per 90 (not including take-ons)

 

Iheanacho 2.88

Daka 1.44

Vardy 0.78

 

 

 

Passes received successfully per 90

 

Iheanacho 30.4

Daka 21.8

Vardy 12.7

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah these are good stats and illustrate well how they all play. Kel being more involved in the general play than Daka and Vardy (Daka is more involved than JV) . Vardy having a more reliable first touch and keeping the ball than the other 2 although receiving it far less. 

[brookfox]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

I think you'll find he's scored more goals for us in and around the box from finding space and being in the right place than by actually running behind the defensive line. 

 

It's a similar myth to the one that prevails with Jamie Vardy, it was always made out that he was a one trick pony that could only score counter attacking goals but a lot of his work is just getting free in the box. 

 

Keep in mind that when Daka scored a goal a game for Salzburg in the Austrian Bundesliga he was obviously playing for a dominant side that had most of the ball in every game against teams parking the bus. 

Great! Then my optimism for the season has increased to near stratospheric levels!!

[Finnegan]

7 minutes ago, brookfox said:

Great! Then my optimism for the season has increased to near stratospheric levels!!

 

So just watch us now sell him to Besiktas for 7m

[Daggers]

26 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I'll reserve judgement on what he's going to do until I've seen us play under the new manager. Play the right way and I've seen enough to think he'll be a success, conversely play him the wrong way and I've seen enough to know it'll be totally fruitless. 

The one positive I took from yesterday is that he said he’ll set up according to who he has, playing to their strengths, rather than last season’s gimp who forced the squad to play his way and his way alone.