Patson Daka

[sm1]

Looked very good when he first came but has progressively got worse. I lay some blame on Rodgers, but now its time for Daka to shine. New manager who'll play attacking football (I hope) and a lower league should suit him.

[Daggers]

7 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Transfer Talk is such a cat fight this year! 

Great isn’t it!

[Nicolo Barella]

I'm putting myself in the pro-Daka camp. Rodgers ruined him. 

[ACF]

Rodgers famously did not play to our player’s strengths last year, and when he did, he wouldn’t play the one striker it would benefit. Then Dean Smith though “oh he’s quick put him on the ****ing wing”

 

If he chooses to go, fair enough, but **** me, there’s a player in there, and playing regularly at a lower level is exactly what he needs imo.

[ACF]

Can’t wait for FT to forget every bad word when the first goal of the season is Praet to Patson 

[justfoxes]

I think the lad has had a raw deal under Brendan Bodgers not playing to Patsons strengths giving him enough game time also the lack of confidence after that massive Bodgers meltdown after the forest FA cup round loss sapped Patson and the rest of the squad’s confidence, but I can see him coming on strong under Maresca along with other members of the squad who seemed to struggle with confidence following Bodgers Blundering worrying outbursts blaming everyone else but his own incompetent self !

[funkyrobot]

7 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

No a lot of people just think you are wrong

What have I said that’s wrong other than suggesting his responses to people he has a differing opinion to are dismissive and condescending? They quite clearly are 😂. Regarding Daka, I’ve said he hasn’t scored enough goals. That is a statistical fact. 

[Solihullfox]

5 minutes ago, justfoxes said:

I think the lad has had a raw deal under Brendan Bodgers not playing to Patsons strengths giving him enough game time also the lack of confidence after that massive Bodgers meltdown after the forest FA cup round loss sapped Patson and the rest of the squad’s confidence, but I can see him coming on strong under Maresca along with other members of the squad who seemed to struggle with confidence following Bodgers Blundering worrying outbursts blaming everyone else but his own incompetent self !

Completely agree.

 

BR sapped the players confidence, trust in each other and put his ego above everything else - huge damage caused and really hope that Enzo can repair some of the damaged players and restore the belief to the players we have remaining after two seasons of terrible management by Bodgers AND get some momentum from new faces, both playing staff and backroom staff who understand “team” dynamics

[RowlattsFox]

Seeing as this is the transfer thread, has he actually been linked anywhere? 

[FosseSpark]

I want us to keep Vardy, Daka AND Iheanacho. Goals win the championship and those three can all get 20 + in the prem let alone the championship. If we add a bigger plan B striker like Piroe or Gyokeres then im all for it.

We have already shifted a big lump of wages (Soyuncu, Mendy, Tete, Amartey, Perez) and will get big fees for Maddison, Barnes + decent fees for Praet, Castagne and 1 or 2 others so short term cash flow shouldnt be the biggest concern.

If theres 1 place we should be ensuring we dont leave ourselves weak it is on the goals front. If you remember 2001/2 we kept 4 or 5 strikers of prem quality and got maasivr points off the back of it.

[FrankieADZ]

5 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I'm putting myself in the pro-Daka camp. Rodgers ruined him. 

spot on, look at how many players went backwards under rodgers, compared to how many progressed 

shocking really

 

 

[Pliskin]

5 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I'm putting myself in the pro-Daka camp. Rodgers ruined him. 

I agree. He was showing enough previously to prove he is a talent. Hopefully Maresca can work some magic and help him find his confidence. 

[moore_94]

16 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Seeing as this is the transfer thread, has he actually been linked anywhere? 

Roma

[JimJams]

27 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Regarding Daka, I’ve said he hasn’t scored enough goals. That is a statistical fact. 

It's not. 

[Finnegan]

19 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Regarding Daka, I’ve said he hasn’t scored enough goals. That is a statistical fact

 

Well, no. Its a subjective opinion. 

 

The number of goals he has scored is a statistic, the number of minutes he's played is a statistic, combining the two to give goals per 90 minutes is a statistic. 

 

Whether the outcome is "enough" or not is subjective. Personally, I think 8 combined goals and assists in 13 lots of 90 minutes (fact) isn't a terrible return (opinion) for a player extremely starved of service (fact), in a team cripplingly short on confidence (opinion) that finished in the bottom three (fact.)

 

I think any striker given inconsistent game time (fact) is going to struggle (opinion) to build up consistent form and that Daka's per 90 stats (facts) compare favourably to his contemporaries from other clubs (facts) given the circumstances (opinion.)

 

I'm taking you at face value here and assuming good faith. To that end this post aspires to be instructional and not deliberately patronising. Whilst my last few posts obviously have quite deliberately played up to accusations of condescension for cheap laughs, it's never really been my aim to make people feel belittled.

 

I've written most of my posts about player stats with the genuine desire to inform, where I become frustrated is when people try and hand wave facts away because of their "sight test" which is just simply arbitrary, subjective nonsense. And we all do it, myself included. I've found myself in the past drawing unfair conclusions about players before I've seen the data and then realising it's probably just confirmation bias. 

 

See that's the problem, you see a player like Daka fall over once or twice or miss a sitter and you draw the conclusion that that's his default. You then ignore all evidence to the contrary but overtly focus on the one or two times he proves you right because it's extremely fulfilling and comes with a big dopamine reward which makes us feel great. 

 

And that's why you'll have multiple posters on here claiming Daka is a rubbish finisher who has missed loads of easy chances when the stats, data, facts just don't support that at all. 

 

I don't resent or begrudge anyone that bias, we all do it, what I do hate is people persisting with denial when they're shown the truth. 

[Ric Flair]

32 minutes ago, FosseSpark said:

I want us to keep Vardy, Daka AND Iheanacho. Goals win the championship and those three can all get 20 + in the prem let alone the championship. If we add a bigger plan B striker like Piroe or Gyokeres then im all for it.

We have already shifted a big lump of wages (Soyuncu, Mendy, Tete, Amartey, Perez) and will get big fees for Maddison, Barnes + decent fees for Praet, Castagne and 1 or 2 others so short term cash flow shouldnt be the biggest concern.

If theres 1 place we should be ensuring we dont leave ourselves weak it is on the goals front. If you remember 2001/2 we kept 4 or 5 strikers of prem quality and got maasivr points off the back of it.

I really think we've missed a trick in loaning out Opoku again. His physicality is the exact ingredient we are missing from our current strikers. In a 50+ game season with us quite likely going 3-4-1-2, he'd have gotten opportunities and if he didn't succeed then a loan in January could have been arranged.

[Criggers]

If Daka leaves I reckon it’ll be like Kramaric. I haven’t seen who if anyone he is linked with but could see him going back to Europe and a regaining goal scoring form.

 

I still think he has a chance to come good here. But I still also think despite any stats that he’s spent a lot of time on the floor and his first touch and general play has had the look of a man with zero confidence.

[The People's Hero]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Well, no. Its a subjective opinion. 

 

The number of goals he has scored is a statistic, the number of minutes he's played is a statistic, combining the two to give goals per 90 minutes is a statistic. 

 

Whether the outcome is "enough" or not is subjective. Personally, I think 8 combined goals and assists in 13 lots of 90 minutes (fact) isn't a terrible return (opinion) for a player extremely starved of service (fact), in a team cripplingly short on confidence (opinion) that finished in the bottom three (fact.)

 

I think any striker given inconsistent game time (fact) is going to struggle (opinion) to build up consistent form and that Daka's per 90 stats (facts) compare favourably to his contemporaries from other clubs (facts) given the circumstances (opinion.)

 

I'm taking you at face value here and assuming good faith. To that end this post aspires to be instructional and not deliberately patronising. Whilst my last few posts obviously have quite deliberately played up to accusations of condescension for cheap laughs, it's never really been my aim to make people feel belittled.

 

I've written most of my posts about player stats with the genuine desire to inform, where I become frustrated is when people try and hand wave facts away because of their "sight test" which is just simply arbitrary, subjective nonsense. And we all do it, myself included. I've found myself in the past drawing unfair conclusions about players before I've seen the data and then realising it's probably just confirmation bias. 

 

See that's the problem, you see a player like Daka fall over once or twice or miss a sitter and you draw the conclusion that that's his default. You then ignore all evidence to the contrary but overtly focus on the one or two times he proves you right because it's extremely fulfilling and comes with a big dopamine reward which makes us feel great. 

 

And that's why you'll have multiple posters on here claiming Daka is a rubbish finisher who has missed loads of easy chances when the stats, data, facts just don't support that at all. 

 

I don't resent or begrudge anyone that bias, we all do it, what I do hate is people persisting with denial when they're shown the truth. 

This is my truth, tell me yours.

 

No, seriously, I agree with you. You're right about Daka.

 

What I really want to know though is your thoughts on Luke Thomas; since I can't work out if he's good or not and I suspect he just got Brodgered; but what do the stats tell us?

[Finnegan]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I really think we've missed a trick in loaning out Opoku again. His physicality is the exact ingredient we are missing from our current strikers. In a 50+ game season with us quite likely going 3-4-1-2, he'd have gotten opportunities and if he didn't succeed then a loan in January could have been arranged.

 

Would he have gotten a work permit? Maybe we've got other plans for those few slots for otherwise ineligible players? 

[Finnegan]

8 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

This is my truth, tell me yours.

 

No, seriously, I agree with you. You're right about Daka.

 

What I really want to know though is your thoughts on Luke Thomas; since I can't work out if he's good or not and I suspect he just got Brodgered; but what do the stats tell us?

 

I think the problem with Thomas is that his potentially biggest flaws are really hard to analyse with publicly available stats. 

 

There's a lot of work being done at the moment by leading football stats agencies to solve what's actually amusingly been called by some of them The Vardy Problem. How do we sufficiently measure the value of what a player does without the ball, which is the majority of time they spend on a pitch. But at the moment most of that work hasn't seen enormous fruition and isn't accessible to the average Joe on the internet. 

 

I haven't checked but I would actually suspect that Thomas compares quite favourably to other full backs on paper if you go and look up passing and crossing stats, he's pretty good on the ball. 

 

What worries me most with Thomas is his pace and his positioning, both of which aren't really easy to measure by just combing through the likes of fbref. 

 

Edited 5 July 2023 by Finnegan

[Bluetintedspecs]

What I'd be interested in seeing is what people really think about Daka 

[volpeazzurro]

48 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

What have I said that’s wrong other than suggesting his responses to people he has a differing opinion to are dismissive and condescending? They quite clearly are 😂. Regarding Daka, I’ve said he hasn’t scored enough goals. That is a statistical fact. 

If you're not playing, you can't score. That is also a statistical fact.

 

If you also only get a few minutes or get played in the wrong way, using poor tactics or don't get the ball, that can also hamper your chances of scoring a smidge too 🤣

[The People's Hero]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

I think the problem with Thomas is that his potentially biggest flaws are really hard to analyse with publicly available stats. 

 

There's a lot of work being done at the moment by leading football stats agencies to solve what's actually amusingly been called by some of them The Vardy Problem. How do we sufficiently measure the value of what a player does without the ball, which is the majority of time they spend on a pitch. 

 

I haven't checked but I would actually suspect that Thomas compares quite favourably to other full backs on paper if you go and look up passing and crossing stats, he's pretty good on the ball. 

 

What worries me most with Thomas is his pace and his positioning, both of which aren't really easy to measure by just combing through the likes of fbref. 

I'm in the camp that he's actually really good, but then I've watched back some of the goals we've conceded and he's become a master at the holy trinity of somehow always managing to get caught under the ball, being too narrow and just marking no one at all, or bizarrely just picking up the complete wrong man. I think he's one that would benefit from a settled defensive shape (whether thats a 4 or 5 and his role full back or wing back) and a real run of games. Basically, I have the gut feeling he's really good but when other people say he's shit, I find it hard to argue the point. There must be a golden stat you can give me to wind up for foxestalk plebs?

 

 

[Finnegan]

5 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

I'm in the camp that he's actually really good, but then I've watched back some of the goals we've conceded and he's become a master at the holy trinity of somehow always managing to get caught under the ball, being too narrow and just marking no one at all, or bizarrely just picking up the complete wrong man. I think he's one that would benefit from a settled defensive shape (whether thats a 4 or 5 and his role full back or wing back) and a real run of games. Basically, I have the gut feeling he's really good but when other people say he's shit, I find it hard to argue the point. There must be a golden stat you can give me to wind up for foxestalk plebs?

 

 

 

The bit about being too narrow and not close enough to the opposition winger, it's something all of our full backs have always done under Rodgers. Pretty sure you'll find it's a deliberate instruction to try and keep the defence compact, surrender the wider areas and defend the box.

 

Obviously losing your man entirely because you're ball watching isn't inherently part of the plan but is a bit of a byproduct that everyone from Chilwell to Castagne to Thomas have been guilty of at times. 

 

Edited 5 July 2023 by Finnegan

[LCFCJohn]

1 minute ago, The People's Hero said:

I'm in the camp that he's actually really good, but then I've watched back some of the goals we've conceded and he's become a master at the holy trinity of somehow always managing to get caught under the ball, being too narrow and just marking no one at all, or bizarrely just picking up the complete wrong man. I think he's one that would benefit from a settled defensive shape (whether thats a 4 or 5 and his role full back or wing back) and a real run of games. Basically, I have the gut feeling he's really good but when other people say he's shit, I find it hard to argue the point. There must be a golden stat you can give me to wind up for foxestalk plebs?

 

 

Thing with Thomas is that he has had some of his better games and raised his game against the better players. Remember Salah in his pocket? The cup final? Even the defensively sound performance away at Newcastle in the penultimate game. This could indicate that the ability is there but it’s the mental side such as confidence and focus. 
 

As well as that, the arguments made re Daka such as being used correctly and consistent minutes could also apply. 
 

He also hasn’t known anything but Rodgers (apart from Smith for those few games). Never been out on loan etc and came into the side after covid where peak Rodgers time had passed. 
 

He’s one that people judging him calling him shit and calling for a League 2 loan etc need to get themselves firmly in the bin. He may not progress as hoped but it’s sure as hell not determined at this point!