Patson Daka

[ClaphamFox]

41 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

Think him and Nacho both go potentially in this window. Deffo by Jan with Nacho out of contract.

That makes no sense. Why would we sell Nacho midway through a season for what would inevitably be a derisory amount?

[Jam orton]

Don't mind loosing Daka if it means us keeping Kelechi 

[FosseSpark]

Let Daka go for £15m and bring in a player like Piroe, but if Daka goes then Nacho needs to stay. We need 3 strikers.

[moore_94]

Selling Daka and signing a new striker would help us with AFCON as well

 

Not sure I like the idea of us going a month or so with Vardy as our only available striker

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Selling Daka and signing a new striker would help us with AFCON as well

 

Not sure I like the idea of us going a month or so with Vardy as our only available striker

Great point 

[Fox85]

46 minutes ago, FosseSpark said:

Let Daka go for £15m and bring in a player like Piroe, but if Daka goes then Nacho needs to stay. We need 3 strikers.

So get rid of Vardy.

 

High wages wirh no out put

[honeybradger]

5 minutes ago, Fox85 said:

So get rid of Vardy.

 

High wages wirh no out put

He will contribute this season if we are going to be promoted. You simply cant play him as a lone striker with Ndidi as an attacking 8 and mcateer on the wing though, he needs some creativity around him in the form of a support striker or better players in midfield or on the wing.

[MGLCFC]

This won't be popular, but I think both Vardy and Daka are not particularly suited to the new system - neither are brilliant at coming deep, back to goal whilst receiving the ball. Their strengths are to run off the shoulder of the last defender. So maybe sell both (or release Vardy) and try to buy Piroe as I don't think we will be playing with 2 CF's in games, so the need for 3 strikers is negated. During the AFCON you could always resort to an inverted 9, if Piroe was injured or suspended or try Mavadidi there. It's only an opinion or even a suggestion and others will have alternative views, I'm sure. 

[Dahnsouff]

 

14 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

He will contribute this season if we are going to be promoted. You simply cant play him as a lone striker with Ndidi as an attacking 8 and mcateer on the wing though, he needs some creativity around him in the form of a support striker or better players in midfield or on the wing.

Not convinced this is how Enzo wants to play, Vardy's value now is nous and talismanic, he is no longer the same that bursting onto through balls is his bread and butter - not saying he cannot as its not binary, but perhaps not as much

However, his nous and passion is worth a lot, so there are difficult choices to make, but we cannot enter the season with 3 (would be) first choice strikers

[Claridge]

2 minutes ago, MGLCFC said:

This won't be popular, but I think both Vardy and Daka are not particularly suited to the new system - neither are brilliant at coming deep, back to goal whilst receiving the ball. Their strengths are to run off the shoulder of the last defender. So maybe sell both (or release Vardy) and try to buy Piroe as I don't think we will be playing with 2 CF's in games, so the need for 3 strikers is negated. During the AFCON you could always resort to an inverted 9, if Piroe was injured or suspended or try Mavadidi there. It's only an opinion or even a suggestion and others will have alternative views, I'm sure. 

I think it is popular, seems obvious that neither of them are suited up top on their own, we need to sell either of them , preferably Daka and get another player in who is suitable 

[KFS]

45 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Selling Daka and signing a new striker would help us with AFCON as well

 

Not sure I like the idea of us going a month or so with Vardy as our only available striker

This is the sort of thoughtful, forward planning that Rudkin won’t be doing 

[Finnegan]

7 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

 

Not convinced this is how Enzo wants to play, Vardy's value now is nous and talismanic, he is no longer the same that bursting onto through balls is his bread and butter - not saying he cannot as its not binary, but perhaps not as much

However, his nous and passion is worth a lot, so there are difficult choices to make, but we cannot enter the season with 3 (would be) first choice strikers

 

Two things occur to me:

 

1. Vardy still has a lot more pace than he's given credit for. 

 

2. Movement, timing, anticipation, awareness, reading a defender and an often overlooked quality - stealth - are all part of "being fast" in the context of getting beyond the defence. 

 

Timing your run, getting in behind whilst staying onside is quite often enough to get in. It's a myth that you need to be an Olympic sprinter to get one on ones and shooting opportunities by playing on the shoulder. A well timed burst of acceleration and you're away. Defenders have to spot you, turn and recover and often it's too late. 

 

Vardy is still more than capable of doing that. But we've barely played single ball like that for our strikers under Maresca so far. Whether we will start to once we get the players we need in midfield and on the wing and we get familiar with his way of playing I don't know. But right now it's predominantly the wingers and underlapping midfielders that are getting fed in with through balls. Ndidi has had more of them played to him than either Vardy or Daka so far. 

 

That's not about their ability it's just the way the game plan has changed. 

 

Edited 8 August 2023 by Finnegan

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

Two things occur to me:

 

1. Vardy still has a lot more pace than he's given credit for. 

 

2. Movement, timing, anticipation, awareness, reading a defender and an often overlooked quality - stealth - are all part of "being fast" in the context of getting beyond the defence. 

 

Timing your run, getting in behind whilst staying onside is quite often a lot to get in. It's a myth that you need to be an Olympic sprinter to get one on ones and shooting opportunities by playing on the shoulder. A well timed burst of acceleration and you're away. Defenders have to spot you, turn and recover and often it's too late. 

 

Vardy is still more than capable of doing that. But we've barely players single ball like that for our strikers under Maresca so far. Whether we will start to once we get the players we need in midfield and on the wing and we get familiar with his way of playing I don't know. But right now it's predominantly the wingers and underlapping midfielders that are getting fed in with through balls. Ndidi has had more of them played to him than either Vardy or Daka so far. 

 

That's not about their ability it's just the way the game plan has changed. 

 

Agree, that is why I said "not as" rather than cannot as this stuff is never as binary as some may portray it. Vardy has plenty to offer, but I have hesitancy for exactly the reasons you describe. It was his lack of suitability to the imagined system Enzo wants to play that made me surprised Nacho didn`t start, as he is far more capable of recycling the ball to these wingers or later arriving midfielders than Vardy. Assume that means fitness or impending exit or my brain is too small to see the real reason. 

[honeybradger]

11 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

 

Not convinced this is how Enzo wants to play, Vardy's value now is nous and talismanic, he is no longer the same that bursting onto through balls is his bread and butter - not saying he cannot as its not binary, but perhaps not as much

However, his nous and passion is worth a lot, so there are difficult choices to make, but we cannot enter the season with 3 (would be) first choice strikers

Vardy could definitely play the role Haaland has in Man City's system, it's just with the personel we have we cant put the ball in the box.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, honeybradger said:

Vardy could definitely play the role Haaland has in Man City's system, it's just with the personel we have we cant put the ball in the box.

Think that is a fair point

[sacreblueits442]

9 hours ago, Stopharage said:

Loan him to Everton regardless of how much they offer; will help hasten their long-deserved relegation. 
 

4 goals against Spartak Moscow and that’s pretty much it. 
 

He plays as if he woke up one day and his left leg was on his right side and vice versa. I’ve never seen someone sober fall over their own feet so often. 

...the only time I have seen him look confident and assured with what he was doing, was when he called for the ball in an inside right position,  10 yards outside the box, drove at the defender and finished with his left foot!!!

  What if his game is not based on playing on the shoulder of the last man, but receiving the ball in front of the defenders and running at them.

  If I recall, there was a training clip of him up against Vestergaard (yes I  know) where he absolutely bamboozled him with quick feet, great ball control and a stunning finish.

  What if that was his game, but we are looking for the wrong things from him?

 

[FosseSpark]

No way we should lose Vardy. He's still got plenty of goals in him at this level. I mean Billy Sharp is still a 20 a season man. He will get a lot of chances against the likes of Huddersfield, Rotherham, Preston, Plymouth, Bristol, QPR, Watford, Sunderland, Sheff Weds, Hull, Birmingham, Cardiff, Milwall. 

We forget some of the relatively low quality we will be playing in this league that will be shitting their pants at the thought of someone who knows where the corner of the net is playing againt them. Strikers like Vardy and Nacho who have a track record of high quality finishing are like hens teeth in this league. They all have strong, quick, creative players who can set up a chance - but all the great finishers gravitate to the premier league. We've got 2 great finishers in Vardy and Nacho and should lose them over Enzo's dead body.

[sphericalfox]

I love the idea that we're going to play one way tactically and this will have zero flexibility whoever we play against. Whomever doesn't fit that one tactic is for the bin. Seems like a winning formula.

[Stopharage]

4 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

We should keep him. We invested so much in him and he is young. It does not make sense to sell him at a lost. 

Patson Daka. Sunk cost fallacy in football form. 
 

1 hour ago, FosseSpark said:

Let Daka go for £15m and bring in a player like Piroe, but if Daka goes then Nacho needs to stay. We need 3 strikers.

Let him go for £15m? Who on earth is paying anywhere near that for him? 

4 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...the only time I have seen him look confident and assured with what he was doing, was when he called for the ball in an inside right position,  10 yards outside the box, drove at the defender and finished with his left foot!!!

  What if his game is not based on playing on the shoulder of the last man, but receiving the ball in front of the defenders and running at them.

  If I recall, there was a training clip of him up against Vestergaard (yes I  know) where he absolutely bamboozled him with quick feet, great ball control and a stunning finish.

  What if that was his game, but we are looking for the wrong things from him?

 

Seems like his game is doing well in training but not in actual games. And falling over his own feet. 
 

I’d love the guy to do well but anytime he’s on it makes me feel like we’re playing with 10 men. 

[ronnup]

3 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

I love the idea that we're going to play one way tactically and this will have zero flexibility whoever we play against. Whomever doesn't fit that one tactic is for the bin. Seems like a winning formula.

 

Thing is, I do want us ti have an identity. Its what's been missing for so long. I respect that he starts someone like Vesty because he can pass, and be positive. He's thinking about how to impact positively rather than trying to patch frailties. 

[sphericalfox]

Just now, ronnup said:

 

Thing is, I do want us ti have an identity. Its what's been missing for so long. I respect that he starts someone like Vesty because he can pass, and be positive. He's thinking about how to impact positively rather than trying to patch frailties. 

We'll have an identity sure. A particular style of football. But I keep reading our tactical absolutes as if one tactic will railroad all opposition in this league. We'll need a bit more than that to get out.

[Fox92]

Get rid if we can get another striker in.

[Pliskin]

No point bringing in Piroe, he will want to be the main man and he clearly won’t be. 

[FosseSpark]

In fairness we will need Mavididi, KDH, Vardy, Iheanacho, Rak Sakyi / Casadei (if they come) + another striker to contribute 70 goals between them this season if we are going to get promoted. I can see KDH / MAvididi getting circa 10 each and 1 of the others (if RS and Casadei make good on their non champo goal prowess) so we need to be confident that Vardy, Iheanacho + 1 other striker will get 40 between them.

If you then get odds and sods from defenders / set pieces you are at 90 goals which means you are winning enough games to get promoted. It's all about goal threat, so we need to be very careful before we lose any of the 3 strikers we thought were good enough for the prem.

 

[sacreblueits442]

27 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Vardy could definitely play the role Haaland has in Man City's system, it's just with the personel we have we cant put the ball in the box.

...we do put the ball into the box,  but we di not look to pick out anyone!!!

  Going to the byline and cutting it back for the forwards or supporting players to score is not what is happening. Chances are falling to the wrong players and noticeable that the forwards are not where you would expect them to be, they seem to be behind the play.