Daniel Iversen

[The Doctor]

9 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Not really because it’s assuming all players progress equally which obviously isn’t true. Players don’t improve and grow in the same bell curve. Compare the stats of Bojan Krkic to just about anyone else including Lionel

Messi at 16 and Bojan is probably going to become the greatest player of all time.

 

Compare 2 excellent PL strikers for example - a player like Michael Owen who was great at his peak at 18 and then went downwards from the age of about 21 to a player like Didier Drogba who only really became a great player in his 30s.

true, but there's no evidence to suggest that ward has improved over those past 5 years

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Tommy Fresh said:

How did Ward earn his opportunity?

Saved multiple penalties in Cup shootouts over the years, often with clean sheets or MOTM performances. Had some good games at major tournaments for Wales at International level. Was used to the system Rodgers played (who to pass to, how to distribute the ball). If Kasper had have got injured whilst he was number 2, Ward would have stepped in 100%.

 

As it turns out he's dreadful, something the fans worked out really quickly, but it's you can see why he was given an opportunity. He did deserve a chance to stake his claim IMO. 

 

The bigger issue is why Iversen wasn't given an opportunity despite Ward being statistically the worst keeper in the league early doors. At one point we did put a run together with a number of clean sheets, but even in those games he didn't look anything special, and wasn't at the level required for a Premier League goalkeeper.  

[funkyrobot]

1 hour ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Because folk didn't see any of Iversen out on loan during the past few years, it also means the entire forum didn't either

My mate is a Rotherham fan and he raved about him when they had him on loan in 2019. Preston fans were all over Twitter singing his praises last season and then this season they were amazed Calamity Ward was keeping him out of the LCFC team! 

[BillyFOX12]

14 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Saved multiple penalties in Cup shootouts over the years, often with clean sheets or MOTM performances. Had some good games at major tournaments for Wales at International level. Was used to the system Rodgers played (who to pass to, how to distribute the ball). If Kasper had have got injured whilst he was number 2, Ward would have stepped in 100%.

 

As it turns out he's dreadful, something the fans worked out really quickly, but it's you can see why he was given an opportunity. He did deserve a chance to stake his claim IMO. 

 

The bigger issue is why Iversen wasn't given an opportunity despite Ward being statistically the worst keeper in the league early doors. At one point we did put a run together with a number of clean sheets, but even in those games he didn't look anything special, and wasn't at the level required for a Premier League goalkeeper.  

I thought Ward looked absolutely horrific in the recent world cup.

I find it insulting that he is even our number two, I doubt he’d start for any Championship sides.

[Tommy Fresh]

20 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Saved multiple penalties in Cup shootouts over the years, often with clean sheets or MOTM performances. Had some good games at major tournaments for Wales at International level. Was used to the system Rodgers played (who to pass to, how to distribute the ball). If Kasper had have got injured whilst he was number 2, Ward would have stepped in 100%.

 

As it turns out he's dreadful, something the fans worked out really quickly, but it's you can see why he was given an opportunity. He did deserve a chance to stake his claim IMO. 

 

The bigger issue is why Iversen wasn't given an opportunity despite Ward being statistically the worst keeper in the league early doors. At one point we did put a run together with a number of clean sheets, but even in those games he didn't look anything special, and wasn't at the level required for a Premier League goalkeeper.  

Personally think the fella going out and racking up 150 appearances had earnt it more, Ward would have stepped in if Kasper was out because Iversen was out not sat on his arse

Edited 2 May 2023 by Tommy Fresh

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

true, but there's no evidence to suggest that ward has improved over those past 5 years

Not disagreeing with you at all. I just don’t think what Ward did at Huddersfield 5 years ago is relevant and worth comparing to what Iversen did at Preston last season.

 

It’s clear that Iversen is the much superior keeper nowadays, while being younger and yet still no less experienced really.

[The Doctor]

19 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Not disagreeing with you at all. I just don’t think what Ward did at Huddersfield 5 years ago is relevant and worth comparing to what Iversen did at Preston last season.

 

It’s clear that Iversen is the much superior keeper nowadays, while being younger and yet still no less experienced really.

in the absence of the data we now have seeing him play in the PL, it's the most direct comparison of the two you can make, particularly given there's nothing suggesting Ward has improved since so his stats would be marginally worse to relate to the step up in league, which they are (decrease of save percentage by 3.9%, increase in goals conceded of 0.52/90 minutes)

 

obviously now we say it's clear because we've seen the traffic cone with a paper plate face on it play 26 games and the actual keeper play 8 games, but even 29 games ago it was clear

Edited 2 May 2023 by The Doctor

[oxford blue]

Iversen could be one of he best keepers we have had in recent years (yes, better than Schmeicel) but we all know his distribution skills need to be improved. Of course, Kasper's were not great either. Is the goalkeeping coach (Stowell) effective as a coach for the requirements of a modern keeper? There seems to be little or no improvement since he was been with us. I would have thought distribution should be easier to coach/practice than shot stopping etc? 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

There's just no way we could have known he was better than Ward! 

[Supergray22]

9 minutes ago, oxford blue said:

Iversen could be one of he best keepers we have had in recent years (yes, better than Schmeicel) but we all know his distribution skills need to be improved. Of course, Kasper's were not great either. Is the goalkeeping coach (Stowell) effective as a coach for the requirements of a modern keeper? There seems to be little or no improvement since he was been with us. I would have thought distribution should be easier to coach/practice than shot stopping etc? 

He was brilliant last night but there were a couple of moments when he played the ball short centrally to a player ( I think Wilf) with an opponent closing him down quickly from behind. It reminded me of the mess ups we have had recently in particular Maddison and youri. Just for now I’d be happy if we launch the ball upfield if there is no good safe short pass. We are in a relegation battle and all teams are on the lookout for such balls in the press now. As a keeper he is far the superior player at the club and just wish we had played him from the outset. 

[gurru991]

13 minutes ago, oxford blue said:

Iversen could be one of he best keepers we have had in recent years (yes, better than Schmeicel) but we all know his distribution skills need to be improved. Of course, Kasper's were not great either. Is the goalkeeping coach (Stowell) effective as a coach for the requirements of a modern keeper? There seems to be little or no improvement since he was been with us. I would have thought distribution should be easier to coach/practice than shot stopping etc? 

Would distribution skills be better coached by a defensive coach ? Surely passing out from the back is a defensive thing. I have very little faith in Stowell to coach anything.

[Lambert09]

7 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

There's just no way we could have known he was better than Ward! 

just baffling isn’t it. A good save is a good save, doesn’t matter  what level it was at. It’s far easier to judge a keepers success no matter what division they are in, than any other position. 
 

A great save in the conference is the same as making one in the prem. So the fact he was so unreal for preston really should have been enough for rodgers to give him a try. Especially as he was the person we used in most of pre-season. 

 

you drop ward down to preston he won’t suddenly be making worldie  saves because  he’s in a lower division. The decent efforts will still be going in there’s just going to be fewer decent efforts. 

 

my logic on a keeeper is that if you are going to loan them, always send them to a weaker team. You want them to have more to do. Sending a keeper to burnley for example would be a bit of a waste 

Edited 2 May 2023 by Lambert09

[STUHILL]

Giving Ward a fair chance was never the issue, and I was all for it. However, it was very quickly apparent that he was/is nowhere near good enough and actually costing us goals and games. Rodgers stubbornness in not dropping him, no doubt put us in a worse position than we are now, by how much? Maybe as little as a point or two, but they all bloody count, and after last night's performance, maybe more than that! 

 

Not playing Soyuncu and taking so long to drop Ward for Iverson, were sackable offences in their own right! 

[Phenom]

Iversen is a great shot stopper and we have more pressing areas to fix but he was really poor in the preseason. Still, no excuse to give Ward such a large leash during the season. He was a mess since game 1.

[justfoxes]

Great shot stopper will be superb just has to sort his kicking and distribution but other than that great performance on Monday night !

[gurru991]

40 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Giving Ward a fair chance was never the issue, and I was all for it. However, it was very quickly apparent that he was/is nowhere near good enough and actually costing us goals and games. Rodgers stubbornness in not dropping him, no doubt put us in a worse position than we are now, by how much? Maybe as little as a point or two, but they all bloody count, and after last night's performance, maybe more than that! 

 

Not playing Soyuncu and taking so long to drop Ward for Iverson, were sackable offences in their own right! 

What bothers me is that no one at the club stepped in & pushed for change. Surely Rodgers didn't have that much power that he was allowed to do something that was obviously wrong !

[lee7]

1 hour ago, oxford blue said:

Iversen could be one of he best keepers we have had in recent years (yes, better than Schmeicel) but we all know his distribution skills need to be improved. Of course, Kasper's were not great either. Is the goalkeeping coach (Stowell) effective as a coach for the requirements of a modern keeper? There seems to be little or no improvement since he was been with us. I would have thought distribution should be easier to coach/practice than shot stopping etc? 

To be fair i hate these modern keepers! Just look at Ward...he is pretty good with his feet but rubbish at keeping the ball out of the net. Whereas Iversen is bad with his feet but looks pretty effective at keeping the ball out. 

 

I know out of the two which one i would prefer.

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, Lambert09 said:

just baffling isn’t it. A good save is a good save, doesn’t matter  what level it was at. It’s far easier to judge a keepers success no matter what division they are in, than any other position. 
 

A great save in the conference is the same as making one in the prem. 

to an extent although it's much easier to stop Erik Holland at Godmanchester FC scoring than Erling Haaland, which is why your save percentage and your PSxG+/- tend to decrease as you go up the divisions, coming up against better finishers.

[Lambert09]

45 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

to an extent although it's much easier to stop Erik Holland at Godmanchester FC scoring than Erling Haaland, which is why your save percentage and your PSxG+/- tend to decrease as you go up the divisions, coming up against better finishers.

Of course but a shot hit to the top corner is the same leaving one players boot to the other. Of course with Haaland the frequency of occurrence is much higher.  But I  wouldnt look at his amazing reel from last season and think... yeah but haaland didnt hit that, it doesnt matter.  A prem players more likely to put one in the corner, sure but if they do youre not blaming the keeper anyway. 

[HankMarvin]

2 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

just baffling isn’t it. A good save is a good save, doesn’t matter  what level it was at. It’s far easier to judge a keepers success no matter what division they are in, than any other position. 
 

A great save in the conference is the same as making one in the prem. So the fact he was so unreal for preston really should have been enough for rodgers to give him a try. Especially as he was the person we used in most of pre-season. 

 

you drop ward down to preston he won’t suddenly be making worldie  saves because  he’s in a lower division. The decent efforts will still be going in there’s just going to be fewer decent efforts. 

 

my logic on a keeeper is that if you are going to loan them, always send them to a weaker team. You want them to have more to do. Sending a keeper to burnley for example would be a bit of a waste 

Save percentage is not really used as a barometer anymore, PSxG/SoT has to be taken into account which has nothing to do with the Keepers ability, but a percentage based on probability of the shot going in.

From that Post-Shot Expected Goals minus Goals Allowed (PSxG+/-) is calculated it calculates a goalkeeper's performance relative to the shots they face. It takes the expected goals allowed by a keeper and subtracts the number of goals allowed.

 

PSxG+/- isolates a goalkeeper's pure shot-stopping ability in a way that saves and clean sheet percentage simply cannot.

 

Iversen is currently rated 45 across the top 5 leagues. Obviously based all a small sample size at this stage though

 

edit

 

to pre-empt the question 

Ward is 170 out of 185

with the Southampton keeper bottom 

Edited 2 May 2023 by HankMarvin

[The Doctor]

31 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

Of course but a shot hit to the top corner is the same leaving one players boot to the other. Of course with Haaland the frequency of occurrence is much higher.  But I  wouldnt look at his amazing reel from last season and think... yeah but haaland didnt hit that, it doesnt matter.  A prem players more likely to put one in the corner, sure but if they do youre not blaming the keeper anyway. 

placement isn't quite everything though, it's the combination of placement and power you get going up through the levels. a league one striker will place it with a daisycutter or blast it wildly, prem strikers blast it into a postage stamp. like goalkeeper stats do drop off as you go up through division, which is why you want as close a comparison as possible as far as that sort of variable goes. Iversen we had it with his form for Preston Vs Wards at Huddersfield, same division, same age, and of course we've got it again now that he's got a run under his belt

[The Doctor]

33 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Save percentage is not really used as a barometer anymore, PSxG/SoT has to be taken into account which has nothing to do with the Keepers ability, but a percentage based on probability of the shot going in.

From that Post-Shot Expected Goals minus Goals Allowed (PSxG+/-) is calculated it calculates a goalkeeper's performance relative to the shots they face. It takes the expected goals allowed by a keeper and subtracts the number of goals allowed.

 

PSxG+/- isolates a goalkeeper's pure shot-stopping ability in a way that saves and clean sheet percentage simply cannot.

 

 

Iversen is currently rated 45 across the top 5 leagues. Obviously based all a small sample size at this stage though

 

 

he's 45th for cumulative, control it as per90 to account for that smaller sample size and he jumps to 32nd. 

[HankMarvin]

4 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

he's 45th for cumulative, control it as per90 to account for that smaller sample size and he jumps to 32nd. 

Yeah but it needs more games to pan out, even Ward had 6 good games before the World Cup 6/8 clean sheets. 
It’s very encouraging at the moment, but lots of variables at play. It will be interesting revisiting at the end of the season. Hopefully he maintains the good start.

[BillyFOX12]

2 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Save percentage is not really used as a barometer anymore, PSxG/SoT has to be taken into account which has nothing to do with the Keepers ability, but a percentage based on probability of the shot going in.

From that Post-Shot Expected Goals minus Goals Allowed (PSxG+/-) is calculated it calculates a goalkeeper's performance relative to the shots they face. It takes the expected goals allowed by a keeper and subtracts the number of goals allowed.

 

PSxG+/- isolates a goalkeeper's pure shot-stopping ability in a way that saves and clean sheet percentage simply cannot.

 

Iversen is currently rated 45 across the top 5 leagues. Obviously based all a small sample size at this stage though

 

edit

 

to pre-empt the question 

Ward is 170 out of 185

with the Southampton keeper bottom 

170 out of 185? What an abomination, seriously we can't risk having this guy as our number 2.

[ronnup]

I love him, but his kicking is abysmal