The 23/24 squad rebuild

[Sly]

Looking at the squad and our contract situations, I’d think that we only have 11 players you can guarantee will be here next season.

 

That’s Iversen, Faes, Souttar, Kristensen, Castagne, Justin, Ricardo, Soumare, KDH, Barnes, Daka.

 

We’re going to need at least 10 I think as a minimal.
 

Maybe some can come from the reserve / U23s, however nothing suggests they’re ready to step up to Premier League football. 

 

1 x Goalkeeper - Ward likely / needs to leave.

3 x Centre backs - Soyuncu, Evans and Amartey all expiring. He frustrates the life out of me, however Amartey might be worth resigning as the emergency backup. Evans is crocked and not worth the wage we’re paying. 

 

1 x Left back - Bertrand expires (thankfully). Luke Thomas needs to go in loan, so we’ll need a backup to Kristensen. We can’t reply on Castage / Ricardo staying fit.

 

3 x  Centre Mid - Mendy and Tielemans expiring in June. Maddison likely to leave. Choudhury might fill a slot coming back from Watford, although I’d expect him to join permanently for the small agreed price. 

2 x Right Midfielders - Jury is still out on Teté at the moment and is only on loan. Perez leaves and will likely join Betis where he’s doing okay.

 

On top of that, we have the small issue of  8 further players expiring in 2024 (Maddison excluded as he’ll likely leave at the end of this season).

 

Vardy and Albrighton - will potentially stay until 2024 picking up in excess of £200k a week between them. Mark might get another loan. Neither should be renewed, ideally both leave. 

 

Ndidi, Iheanacho and Thomas I’d be giving extensions to, unless the right money comes in / or they won’t resign. 
 

Praet and Vestergard I’d look to sell as they’ve got minimal worth. 

 

Smithies is 3rd choice. So serves adequate backup.

 

That is a crazy amount of player turnover and squad rebuild and quite dangerous. We won’t have seen such a player influx for years. 
 

That’s before we get to, will Rodgers be here and what division we’re in. 

[Aus Fox]

Another reason why staying up this season is critical to us as a club.

Of the 11 you have named maybe Iversen, KDH and Justin stay.

The rest will all want to play in the top division, either here or in Europe. That would require us to bring in a full new squad of players. All most impossible to bring that many in and make a push for promotion.

[fox_favourite]

Also factoring un which league we’ll be in as well will be huge. Go down and it’ll be even tougher to rebuild. Less money incoming, loss of likely revenue from lower ticket sales, premier league money, sponsorship etc. Some players on higher than average wage for championship players. It’ll be so tough. We will need to look at highly talented, youngsters.

 

Stay up, and we’ll have to convince players that we won’t be in another relegation scrap next season. 
 

Whichever league we’re in, first job is we need to get the manager right. Get that wrong and it could ruin us for years to come 

[Nicolo Barella]

Manager first, then we can worry about this. This should be taken as an opportunity to mould the squad around the ideas of a new manager, not just having to sign bodies in the positions we need them in. Emery would have been perfect, but anyone who is happy to start Kelechi most weeks is good by me!

[LCFCJohn]

If we go down, we will need to use the loan market wisely.

 

- Sheffield United had Gibbs-White last season and Doyle and McAtee this.

- Forest used it well to get promoted.

- Burnley I think have quite a few this season.

 

Definitely a good way to bulk your side out as long as you don’t have a team made up of them.

 

Would just need to make sure we done duff ones like that Kane bloke we had last time we were in the Championship 

 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Forest levels of player turnover! 

[Gazza M]

Very similar scenario to when we dropped to league 1 and Pearson had to almost start from scratch. 

 

The caliber of player and who we keep and lose won't be decided until we know what division we are in of course. 

[Lionator]

If we get relegated Castagne and Ricardo will be gone. 

[volpeazzurro]

All sound observations and it's criminal how we have allowed ourselves to get into this situation. I always seem to blame Rodgers for a lot of things but even he can't be to blame for the entire debacle. Succession planning, what's that? Isn't it something every business has to have?

 

Yes, it's almost 'build again from scratch ' time however, surely, as someone has suggested, we can't let Rodgers do this. Personally, I think this would have the potential to damage the club beyond repair. I for one really don't think I could listen to his slobber for another year or watch his brand of football. 

[Bourbon Fox]

I think there's a player in Praet, I just don't know if he's the one we need.

 

He's good on the ball, he offers movement, he's a very tidy player and he sits in an area of the pitch where we're losing 2 or 3 men.

 

In a year where we were looking to free up space to bring quality in, maybe let him go as he's clearly not mates with Rodgers. But in this situation, I'm not sure we should let a decent footballer go and have to replace him?

Edited 20 March 2023 by Bourbon Fox

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

If we get relegated Castagne and Ricardo will be gone. 

Doubt Ricky will go but Castagne is a saleable asset and will likely be sold this summer, whether we are relegated or not ……

[moore_94]

5 hours ago, Sly said:

Looking at the squad and our contract situations, I’d think that we only have 11 players you can guarantee will be here next season.

 

That’s Iversen, Faes, Souttar, Kristensen, Castagne, Justin, Ricardo, Soumare, KDH, Barnes, Daka.

 

We’re going to need at least 10 I think as a minimal.
 

Maybe some can come from the reserve / U23s, however nothing suggests they’re ready to step up to Premier League football. 

 

1 x Goalkeeper - Ward likely / needs to leave.

3 x Centre backs - Soyuncu, Evans and Amartey all expiring. He frustrates the life out of me, however Amartey might be worth resigning as the emergency backup. Evans is crocked and not worth the wage we’re paying. 

 

1 x Left back - Bertrand expires (thankfully). Luke Thomas needs to go in loan, so we’ll need a backup to Kristensen. We can’t reply on Castage / Ricardo staying fit.

 

3 x  Centre Mid - Mendy and Tielemans expiring in June. Maddison likely to leave. Choudhury might fill a slot coming back from Watford, although I’d expect him to join permanently for the small agreed price. 

2 x Right Midfielders - Jury is still out on Teté at the moment and is only on loan. Perez leaves and will likely join Betis where he’s doing okay.

 

On top of that, we have the small issue of  8 further players expiring in 2024 (Maddison excluded as he’ll likely leave at the end of this season).

 

Vardy and Albrighton - will potentially stay until 2024 picking up in excess of £200k a week between them. Mark might get another loan. Neither should be renewed, ideally both leave. 

 

Ndidi, Iheanacho and Thomas I’d be giving extensions to, unless the right money comes in / or they won’t resign. 
 

Praet and Vestergard I’d look to sell as they’ve got minimal worth. 

 

Smithies is 3rd choice. So serves adequate backup.

 

That is a crazy amount of player turnover and squad rebuild and quite dangerous. We won’t have seen such a player influx for years. 
 

That’s before we get to, will Rodgers be here and what division we’re in. 

1 goalkeeper - Iversen / Ward 2nd choice, Smithies 3rd (unless Iversen smashes the rest of the season)

 

1 full back* - only needed if we sell Castagne which I think we might, otherwise Ricardo, Timmy, JJ, and Kristiansen is fine, Thomas loaned out

 

2 centre backs - 1 starting partner for Souttar, Faes 3rd choice, 1 younger player to fight with Faes for 3rd choice

 

1 defensive mid - Ndidi backup, Mendy to leave, Soumare booted out the door

 

1 centre mid - Tielemans replacement

 

1 attacking mid - Maddison replacement

 

1 right winger - Tete if he picks up by the end of the season, if not then someone else

 

1 versatile forward - someone who can cover either wing

Edited 20 March 2023 by moore_94

[Oldblueyes]

Successful businesses have a long term, 5 year plan with some flexibility. We had one until the old man died. We don't seem to even have a plan b nowadays. 

[foxinsocks]

21 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

1 goalkeeper - Iversen / Ward 2nd choice, Smithies 3rd (unless Iversen smashes the rest of the season)

 

1 full back* - only needed if we sell Castagne which I think we might, otherwise Ricardo, Timmy, JJ, and Kristiansen is fine, Thomas loaned out

 

2 centre backs - 1 starting partner for Souttar, Faes 3rd choice, 1 younger player to fight with Faes for 3rd choice

 

1 defensive mid - Ndidi backup, Mendy to leave, Soumare booted out the door

 

1 centre mid - Tielemans replacement

 

1 attacking mid - Maddison replacement

 

1 right winger - Tete if he picks up by the end of the season, if not then someone else

 

1 versatile forward - someone who can cover either wing

Take one item... replacing youri.  How much would such a player cost?  We would be better to pay that ammount to youri over 4 years.... as we know what we are getting

[OntarioFox]

cattermole

 

maynard

 

mackail-smith

 

preki

 

we'll shit em

[westernpark]

There are going to be so many outgoings, we need to be offering Mendy and possibly Amartey new terms. We need backup players, I don’t want us to be spending sizeable amounts of money on them. Save it for those to make an impression on the first 11. As we saw with Vestegaard, sometimes that’s what 15 million gets you.

[moore_94]

13 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

Take one item... replacing youri.  How much would such a player cost?  We would be better to pay that ammount to youri over 4 years.... as we know what we are getting

Depends on who we go for really

 

Ideally we try for someone like Enzo Le Fee from Lorient who would only has 1 year left on his contract in the summer

 

We have been linked with Dahoud from Dortmund on a free as well

 

This summer we need to be smart really, no big outlay on just 1 player, gotta spread the money out as much as possible

 

We need to be targeting players with 1 year left on their contracts, a couple of loans with option to buy, at least 1 free, or players similar to Souttar / Kristiansen where it wont cost anymore than £15m

Edited 20 March 2023 by moore_94

[murphy]

I don't think we will be able to afford the number of players we need.

 

Perhaps it's worth noting how we got into this mess.  A couple of years ago we had major assets worth huge amounts and the future looked bright.  Somehow we have sleepwalked into a situation where Cags, once a major asset, will leave for free and doesn't even play, Tielemans will leave for free, Ndidi, once a major asset has become a shadow of himself and currently worth very little.  That only leaves Maddison who will be on the last year of his contract and therefore worth less than his market value.

 

Add to that the fact that Vardy's game has fallen off a cliff.  We knew he couldn't carry on forever but his decline has been more dramatic than anticipated.  Thomas too has joined the list of players that has gone backwards under Rodgers along with Cags and Wilf.

 

And then add to that, the fact that we went two years without improving the team one jot and as they say, standing still is going backwards.  We had the infamous window of Soumare, Bertrand, Vestergaard and Daka.  A clean sweep of duds and Congerton's parting gift.  I still have hope for Daka but he has been a disappointment.  The other three wasted £35m and are just wage sink holes.  Three of the very worst players to represent us in this PL era.

 

The following year we failed to improve the team again and brought no one at all except Faes, a transfer that we were forced in to due to Fofana jumping ship.  Our second attempt at replacing him after if became apparent that Vestergaard was not fit for purpose.  On top of all that we have lost the 'great'  Ayoze Perez for free.  Another £30m fee down drain.

 

What a mess.  Our transfer dealings used to be the envy of the league.  We used to factor in succession planning and we used to buy bright young players with huge potential and resale values.  That model has been trashed.  If we survive this year, I fear for us next. 

 

[Tielemans63]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

If we get relegated Castagne and Ricardo will be gone. 

I think Ricardo might actually stay given the club have supported him through numerous serious injuries. Just got a feeling hes that kind of character.

[GingerrrFox]

All I know is that Football Manager 24 will be a lot of fun for fans of the club. 

[AjcW]

I said it in another thread, but I do wonder how much the board have seen what Burnley have done and thought 'that might not be the worst idea for a financial re-set', (I know it sounds farfetched but bare with me...) i'm starting to think they can't see a way out of the hole we are in without having a reason to have a fire sale.

 

- We'd make an absolute fortune/regain a fortune from being relegated with the players we'd sell and the wages we'd lose. (I can get to £150m just with Madders, Barnes, Castagne and Iheanacho)

- Parachute keeps things safe for a season assuming we go straight back up.

- Means we can get back to signing young players and better wages

- They'll look at a core of Iverson, Souttar, Faes (he wouldn't get bought), Kristiansen (too young to be plucked by a prem team straight away), Justin (a season to recover from injury), KDH (not done enough to be poached) Alves and Braybrooke (both retruning form injury)

- Issue is a whole new attacking line, there's not a single player in our attacking phase who would stay, lots of money to be made by the club there, potentially Daka is loaned for a season like Norwich often do with a big player while they're yo-yoing.

- Not to mention they get shift the goblin out on his massive wages and get a talented younger manager in.

- Could close a stand and get the redevelopment done a season early?

Edited 20 March 2023 by AjcW

[AjcW]

Just now, GingerrrFox said:

All I know is that Football Manager 24 will be a lot of fun for fans of the club. 

I did it a season early this year, it's great fun, I sacked pretty much every member of staff too  

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, AjcW said:

I said it in another thread, but I do wonder how much the board have seen what Burnley have done and thought 'that might not be the worst idea for a financial re-set', (I know it sounds farfetched but bare with me...) i'm starting to think they can't see a way out of the hole we are in without having a reason to have a fire sale.

 

- We'd make an absolute fortune/regain a fortune from being relegated with the players we'd sell and the wages we'd lose. (I can get to £150m just with Madders, Barnes, Castagne and Iheanacho)

- Parachute keeps things safe for a season assuming we go straight back up.

- Means we can get back to signing young players and better wages

- They'll look at a core of Iverson, Souttar, Faes (he wouldn't get bought), Kristiansen (too young to be plucked by a prem team straight away), Justin (a season to recover from injury), KDH (not done enough to be poached) Alves and Braybrooke (both retruning form injury)

- Issue is a whole new attacking line, there's not a single player in our attacking phase who would stay, lots of money to be made by the club there, potentially Daka is loaned for a season like Norwich often do with a big player while they're yo-yoing.

- Not to mention they get shift the goblin out on his massive wages and get a talented younger manager in.

 

You're not factoring in the riches of Preier League membership and didn't we borrow against future TV revenue anyway?  I think that relegation would be financial apocalypse.

[pmcla26]

1 minute ago, AjcW said:

I said it in another thread, but I do wonder how much the board have seen what Burnley have done and thought 'that might not be the worst idea for a financial re-set', (I know it sounds farfetched but bare with me...) i'm starting to think they can't see a way out of the hole we are in without having a reason to have a fire sale.

 

- We'd make an absolute fortune/regain a fortune from being relegated with the players we'd sell and the wages we'd lose. (I can get to £150m just with Madders, Barnes, Castagne and Iheanacho)

- Parachute keeps things safe for a season assuming we go straight back up.

- Means we can get back to signing young players and better wages

- They'll look at a core of Iverson, Souttar, Faes (he wouldn't get bought), Kristiansen (too young to be plucked by a prem team straight away), Justin (a season to recover from injury), KDH (not done enough to be poached) Alves and Braybrooke (both retruning form injury)

- Issue is a whole new attacking line, there's not a single player in our attacking phase who would stay, lots of money to be made by the club there, potentially Daka is loaned for a season like Norwich often do with a big player while they're yo-yoing.

- Not to mention they get shift the goblin out on his massive wages and get a talented younger manager in.

 

I doubt that they'll think like this - the Premier League is the commercial motherland, they won't want to be relegated. 

 

Also, I doubt Alves nor Braybrooke are ready to be relied upon in the Championship every week. 

 

Staying up is definitely better. We can rebuild this side, we just need to spend wisely. 

[J. James]

In the event of relegation, our squad rebuild HAS to get ahead of the game, looking at the standard of Championship football atm we would be mid table at best with our presently selected team/ tactics and mentality.

 

And this is before we lose the few quality players we have.

 

Promotion immediately is a pipe dream and sadly relegation to L1 is much more likely imao.

Momentum is real and we could very easily keep sliding downwards.

 

Lots of people saw this catastrophe coming last season, sadly our owners were and are seemingly blind to the prospect of allowing Rodgers to destroy us.

We may well "do a Blackburn" here, but in much quicker time.