Our Next Manager

[Lionator]

21 minutes ago, Blue ROI said:

Thats very much looking like Vichais work now. 

It was under his stewardship but ultimately it was Pearson, his staff and that playing group who created a winning environment in 2013/14 which created a healthy culture throughout the club. That sadly has been dismantled over the past several years. It needed evolution not revolution, but we’ve gone down the devolution path and now need a revolution. 

[winteriscoming]

Was Dean Smith in the running? 
I’m sure I saw somewhere that he’d been interviewed. Might be wrong. 

[Blue ROI]

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

It was under his stewardship but ultimately it was Pearson, his staff and that playing group who created a winning environment in 2013/14 which created a healthy culture throughout the club. That sadly has been dismantled over the past several years. It needed evolution not revolution, but we’ve gone down the devolution path and now need a revolution. 

Pearson was vital regardless what his detractors say. That's a given. 

 

Just saying when people mention the owners its best to separate the reigns of Vichai and Top. 

 

Theres a huge difference in how they have performed.

[StriderHiryu]

36 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Watched this yesterday, fantastic video actually and surprisingly unbiased from a Leeds fans who actually gives a decent insight into what his tactics were at Leeds, how they have changed over time and why they did not work out. It’s a great video. 
 

90% of the Leeds fans have come across as just completely bitter, I can fully understand that it didn’t work out, but it’s always the same crap “he’s shit” “his tactics didn’t work” 

you ask them WHY it didn’t work and which aspect of the tactics failed with some sort of detail…. Tumbleweed…. Then frankly, with respect, the amount of FT users that have peddled out the exact same lines about Leeds when it’s clearly barely anyone actually understand his philosophy is just saddening.
 

I fully respect anyone right to hate his tactical approach if they have taken more than 20 minutes to actually research what it is first.
half the people that hate his philosophy have absolutely no idea what it is or why it didn’t work out at Leeds.  

Great video, thanks for sharing.

 

I think a big issue is that thus far the Red Bull system has not worked in the Premier League and three people have tried it; Hassenhutl, Ragnick and Marsch. Admittedly, any system takes time to implement, but Jesse had time and an entire pre-season to try and get it working with Leeds and failed.

 

One thing I will say is that if we are in the Championship, we probably would have the time to get such a system right. Marco Silva and Vincent Kompany in just the last two seasons have shown that you can rebuild / restructure a team and develop an identity in the division, and in Silva's case, it worked on Fulham's return too.

 

But it's hard just not to be so sad about the current state of affairs, and thus a bit down on the future too.

[stu]

1 hour ago, boosmanana said:

 

At least we might finally see some of our players sprinting when closing down now ...

 

 

Suggest people take 30 mins to watch the above to understand what the football would be like under Jesse Marsch.

 

It is a complete contrast to Rodgersball and given out limited wide options could actually work with the players available.

 

People have been asking for this type of football for years.

 

Unfortunately, the system relies on confidence in trying and succeeding with playing risky passes and with how mentally flat the players are as soon as a misplaced pass happens the fans will be on their and the managers backs and more mistakes will happen.

 

Yes it is a risk, but we are going down anyway and we have completely lost our football identity, so I’m fully on board with adopting a new football identity which this appointment will bring.

 

Give him a chance.

[winteriscoming]

There seems to be very similar opinions of Marsch from Leeds fans like there was from Southampton fans of Puel. 

[An Sionnach]

Just now, stu said:

Give him a chance.

I'd give him a chance but not on a three year contract. Two years with a get out clause and an agreed pay off if he fails.

[cityfanlee23]

1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

Great video, thanks for sharing.

 

I think a big issue is that thus far the Red Bull system has not worked in the Premier League and three people have tried it; Hassenhutl, Ragnick and Marsch. Admittedly, any system takes time to implement, but Jesse had time and an entire pre-season to try and get it working with Leeds and failed.

 

One thing I will say is that if we are in the Championship, we probably would have the time to get such a system right. Marco Silva and Vincent Kompany in just the last two seasons have shown that you can rebuild / restructure a team and develop an identity in the division, and in Silva's case, it worked on Fulham's return too.

 

But it's hard just not to be so sad about the current state of affairs, and thus a bit down on the future too.

I would say it definitely didn’t work fundamentally at United, it’s definitely a system they were not used to with players who didn’t suit it but the whole plan was for Rangnick to build that in its infancy as interim then oversee it as an advisor going forwards. 
 

I think Southampton is hard to judge given the fact they spent 70m in 4 seasons on players so honestly to even keep them up with the squad they had and constantly having to get loans in for cover I think Ralf did a fantastic job, it’s hard to really tell if given the finances it would have improved. 
 

And on Leeds as a results business it did fail to work out, however from the data/numbers perspective Leeds did actually improve right across the field, but the biggest issue they had was exposed full backs which led to multiple goals that really shouldn’t have happened (and don’t happen with other teams who implement the counter press) So I know why people aren’t thrilled by the idea based on Leeds, but if we are going to go down I think having a season in the championship which I think we would have enough to get promotion, could be vital in the long term rebuild if this style is one we want to stick with. 
 

Definitely big concerns over it if can work, but personally I buy into the system so I’m keen to sit on the side of the fence that believes it can. We are in a complete mess unfortunately so part of me welcomes an entire ethos shift. 

Even if it doesn’t work out on the pitch, at least Marsch commands 100% effort and commitment, which is something we lost in the seasons after Pearson left and we won the league. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

1 minute ago, stu said:

Suggest people take 30 mins to watch the above to understand what the football would be like under Jesse Marsch…

 

…Give him a chance.

I’ve watched that but have also watched the clips of every goal Leeds conceded under him - and by god the defending was shambolic and lacking any sort of positional structure.

 

And that has to be the biggest concern here, given our own defending is already shambolic and lacking any sort of positional structure.

 

Our situation is crying out for Big Sam - we need to learn how to defend and quickly.

[BielsaIsGod]

1 hour ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Watched this yesterday, fantastic video actually and surprisingly unbiased from a Leeds fans who actually gives a decent insight into what his tactics were at Leeds, how they have changed over time and why they did not work out. It’s a great video. 
 

90% of the Leeds fans have come across as just completely bitter, I can fully understand that it didn’t work out, but it’s always the same crap “he’s shit” “his tactics didn’t work” 

you ask them WHY it didn’t work and which aspect of the tactics failed with some sort of detail…. Tumbleweed…. Then frankly, with respect, the amount of FT users that have peddled out the exact same lines about Leeds when it’s clearly barely anyone actually understand his philosophy is just saddening.
 

I fully respect anyone right to hate his tactical approach if they have taken more than 20 minutes to actually research what it is first.
half the people that hate his philosophy have absolutely no idea what it is or why it didn’t work out at Leeds.  

Yes - lots of us get what he was trying to do.  I watched it week after week from the upper East stand, which provides a good sense of what is happening on the pitch.  The problem with it as an approach is that it didn't work in the Premier League, perhaps one in every 5-6 games at most.

 

The lad with his magnet board misrepresented the Marsch approach because by its nature a magnet board suggests some sort of static scenario based system, whereas in practice Marsch ball was a self defeating chaotic frenzy that just didn't deliver.

 

You did see what that lad showed as the Marsch press in the first ten minutes of most games when the opposition was feeling its way into a game and we maintained shape, pressed like demons, disrupted defensive passing and created chances on goal.  The problem is that EPL managers and players are (mostly) not complete donuts, and very quickly worked out how to deal with it as an approach, which resulted in us wasting the other 80 minutes of most games scrambling around trying to cope. 

 

As I don't have a magnet board or a YouTube channel, I'll summarise the problems with Jesse Marsch's football in words if I can (although the reality is far worse than it is possible to describe).

 

- it is fair to say that against elite teams - the top 5-6 in the league - sometimes it worked.  Our frenzied press on the ball led to them losing track of their patterns of play and allowing us to grab a few high profile wins.  Chelsea last August, Liverpool in October, but mostly better teams just passed around us and we ended up losing.  It wasn't that complicated, the press just didn't do what was pretended of it.  Those 2-3 decent performances against top teams are probably what kept Marsch in his job way longer than he deserved, mind.

- against most of the rest of the premier league dross who were willing to concede possession and sit deep waiting for a smash and grab goal (which sadly this year is most of them), we had no answer at all.  Marsch had no idea what to do in that situation. We actually looked worse against poor teams.   And because of our vulnerability to long balls over the top, as games went on teams willing to sit deep, give us the ball and then lump it forward when we lost possession tended to get those chances and because of our disorganised defensive shape, score.  Marsch teams do badly against relegation rivals.  Really badly.  At least we did.

 

- one of the reasons for us falling apart against these less decent teams was that Marsch's ball focused press pulled us out of shape, typically dragging all our defenders over to one side of the pitch or the other, leaving us vulnerable to the long diagonal ball over the top to the winger who then chipped the ball in to an advancing forward who nodded it in at the far post. We conceded game after game this way and Marsch never made any adjustments to address this flaw, which once worked out killed us.  It is interesting that our massively hated LB Junior Firpo has turned into the second coming of Roberto Carlos and a bit of a terrace favourite since Marsch left and he has been trusted by Gracia to play a somewhat more conventional game.  The lad with the magnet board pretended that the press prevented the long ball out.  It didnt.  The long ball out and over our press killed us time after time.  Everyone could see it but he just wouldn't acknowledge it.

 

- As a part of his theory of football Marsch likes getting the ball up field without control, conceding possession with the aim of then imposing the press, to try to force mistakes to create scoring opportunities.  But the nature of transitions of this sort is that the team is steaming up the pitch, they aren't in shape like the lad with the magnet board shows, so the disruptive press or dynamic net or whatever you want to call it rarely if ever worked, which meant that our defence was under pressure for long periods of most games.  Add in the issues with the long diagonal ball over the top being a magic button combination move to score against us, and the entire "philosophy" was close to suicidal.

 

- the absolute hatred of wing play pushed our wide players (of which we've got loads, most of whom are pretty good tbf) narrow, which provided little or no support to our full backs, who were mostly nervous wrecks by the end of many games.  Not least because of all the balls over the top that we seemed to have no defence against.  

 

- when we did get the ball, usually from a turnover up the pitch as we didn't tend to play patiently from the back, the idea was to get the ball through to the penalty spot asap from midfield.  Against teams that congested midfield and defence, that would require Messi-level needle threading that just isn't possible for 99.99% of players.  We typically played some super fast intricate passes that amounted to nothing and then having hurtled forward and crammed all our players into the central zone of the pitch ended up seeing our LB or RB skinned by a winger who had received a long ball over the top.  As soon as we got a new manager in who allowed our wingers to actually go wide, we immediately started to look better as a team, both in attack and in defence.

 

Perhaps his football style does work in a league where managers are less sharp in terms of tactical adjustments, or the team you are managing has players who are several levels above their opposition.  Or defences are less disciplined and more prone to mistakes.  But it is a terrible fit for the EPL.  It is flawed beyond belief.  But he never ever reflected on that failure or made any adjustments or changes at all.  Ever.

 

One reason for all of this is perhaps because he is hugely lazy.  From his interviews over his time at Leeds it was clear that unlike many other managers he didnt put much time into researching or preparing teams. He set up the same time after time.  Early on in his time he was asked about how he would deal with various problems with the team from previous games and it was clear he hadn't even bothered to watch them back.  This isn't a "he isn't Bielsa" thing - our new manager, Javia Gracia (who may or may not keep us up) clearly carefully prepares us for every game and sets up to compete with whoever we are playing, adjusting as necessary.  Marsch never showed any evidence of that.  Most of the time when asked about game preparation, he just talked about "taking pressure off the players" and "playing without fear" when it was clear from a few games in that he was the one who was falling apart not the players.  FWIW he seemed to spend way too much time out in Harrogate with his other half midweek when he might have been putting effort into technical analysis and match prep, but maybe that was just his way of coping with his problems operating in a high pressure environment like the EPL.  Whatever, it didnt work for us as a club. 

 

I think that's probably enough.  Perhaps Marsch will have reflected and learnt from what didnt work at Leeds.  But given his personality and approach that seems highly unlikely.  He speaks well and starts out as a little bouncing ball of positivity and energy.  But before long it becomes clear that he is fairly clueless and non-reflective, has no idea of how to fix stuff that obviously isn't working, cannot handle pressure at all well, and - eventually - alienates the players in a big way.  Most of our fan base now see him as having been an absolute fraud and spoofer.  Some took longer than others to get to that point, but by the end nearly everyone could see it, in and out of the club.  It was notable that no players at Leeds wished him well or offered him thanks when he left the club.

Edited 9 April 2023 by BielsaIsGod

[USMNT Matt]

9 hours ago, RedSoxUK said:

Do you have any thoughts about who would be Jesse's assistant manager and if he would be bringing in coaches, seeing as some are still at Leeds?

 

He's worked closely with Chris Armas previously and I think he'd be the first choice. Ewan Sharp and Cameron Toshack also tend to go with him so likely will for this as well. I'd really like to see Orta go with him from Leeds as he's a talented DOF - albeit a little erratic in his personality - but has the right sort of profile for a club like Foxes

[TonyN11]

I'm coming round to the big Jesse appointment and he'll certainly get my support.  Looking forward to a good performance at the Etihad, regardless of the score 

[Guest Mee-9]

Possibly will be announced today, with a view of taking training tomorrow. 

 

Either that or announced tomorrow morning. 

[Saxondale]

Mirror reporting it’s done.

[Saxondale]

.

Edited 9 April 2023 by Saxondale

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, Saxondale said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/leicester-city-manager-jesse-marsch-29663228?fbclid=IwAR2kCvr8dxiebfbny1gJ_2gHJi3uUL_JPiruFQwA9Kp0JJgQqF2dn5QHgD8#lg97e2wf9vknkssfvt

This has to go down as the worst Easter weekend in our history.

[Crinklyfox]

IMO we will be dead in the water if we appoint Marsch.  We need a man manager who will instil some self-belief and confidence in the players, without which we won't win any game.  We have players with talent, they have played to a much higher level before, we need someone who can untap that lost potential.  Re-working of previously failed tactics isn't going to achieve that.

[MrsJohnMurphy]

30 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

Pearson wouldn’t unite the fan base.

I'd like to hear the noise at the KP first game with Nige stood there on the touchline in his massive white Reeboks.............could you imagine 

[HybridFox]

Put us out of our misery. Announce it

[Pliskin]

9 minutes ago, BielsaIsGod said:

Yes - lots of us get what he was trying to do.  I watched it week after week from the upper East stand, which provides a good sense of what is happening on the pitch.  The problem with it as an approach is that it didn't work in the Premier League, perhaps one in every 5-6 games at most.

 

The lad with his magnet board misrepresented the Marsch approach because by its nature a magnet board suggests some sort of static scenario based system, whereas in practice Marsch ball was a self defeating chaotic frenzy that just didn't deliver.

 

You did see what that lad showed as the Marsch press in the first ten minutes of most games when the opposition was feeling its way into a game and we maintained shape, pressed like demons, disrupted defensive passing and created chances on goal.  The problem is that EPL managers and players are (mostly) not complete donuts, and very quickly worked out how to deal with it as an approach, which resulted in us wasting the other 80 minutes of most games scrambling around trying to cope. 

 

As I don't have a magnet board or a YouTube channel, I'll summarise the problems with Jesse Marsch's football in words if I can (although the reality is far worse than it is possible to describe).

 

- it is fair to say that against elite teams - the top 5-6 in the league - sometimes it worked.  Our frenzied press on the ball led to them losing track of their patterns of play and allowing us to grab a few high profile wins.  Chelsea last August, Liverpool in October, but mostly better teams just passed around us and we ended up losing.  It wasn't that complicated, the press just didn't do what was pretended of it.  Those 2-3 decent performances against top teams are probably what kept Marsch in his job way longer than he deserved, mind.

- against most of the rest of the premier league dross who were willing to concede possession and sit deep waiting for a smash and grab goal (which sadly this year is most of them), we had no answer at all.  Marsch had no idea what to do in that situation. We actually looked worse against poor teams.   And because of our vulnerability to long balls over the top, as games went on teams willing to sit deep, give us the ball and then lump it forward when we lost possession tended to get those chances and because of our disorganised defensive shape, score.  Marsch teams do badly against relegation rivals.  Really badly.  At least we did.

 

- one of the reasons for us falling apart against these less decent teams was that Marsch's ball focused press pulled us out of shape, typically dragging all our defenders over to one side of the pitch or the other, leaving us vulnerable to the long diagonal ball over the top to the winger who then chipped the ball in to an advancing forward who nodded it in at the far post. We conceded game after game this way and Marsch never made any adjustments to address this flaw, which once worked out killed us.  It is interesting that our massively hated LB Junior Firpo has turned into the second coming of Roberto Carlos and a bit of a terrace favourite since Marsch left and he has been trusted by Gracia to play a somewhat more conventional game.  The lad with the magnet board pretended that the press prevented the long ball out.  It didnt.  The long ball out and over our press killed us time after time.  Everyone could see it but he just wouldn't acknowledge it.

 

- As a part of his theory of football Marsch likes getting the ball up field without control, conceding possession with the aim of then imposing the press, to try to force mistakes to create scoring opportunities.  But the nature of transitions of this sort is that the team is steaming up the pitch, they aren't in shape like the lad with the magnet board shows, so the disruptive press or dynamic net or whatever you want to call it rarely if ever worked, which meant that our defence was under pressure for long periods of most games.  Add in the issues with the long diagonal ball over the top being a magic button combination move to score against us, and the entire "philosophy" was close to suicidal.

 

- the absolute hatred of wing play pushed our wide players (of which we've got loads, most of whom are pretty good tbf) narrow, which provided little or no support to our full backs, who were mostly nervous wrecks by the end of many games.  Not least because of all the balls over the top that we seemed to have no defence against.  

 

- when we did get the ball, usually from a turnover as we didn't tend to play patiently from the back, the idea was to get the ball through to the penalty spot asap from midfield.  Against teams that congested midfield and defence, that would require Messi-level needly threading that just isn't possible for 99.99% of players.  We typically played some super fast intricate passes that amounted to nothing and then having hurtled forward and crammed all our players into the central zone of the pitch ended up seeing our LB or RB skinned by a winger who had received a long ball over the top.  As soon as we got a new manager in who allowed our wingers to actually go wide, we immediately started to look better as a team, both in attack and in defence.

 

Perhaps his football style does work in a league where managers are less sharp in terms of tactical adjustments, or the team you are managing has players who are several levels above their opposition.  Or defences are less disciplined and more prone to mistakes.  But it is a terrible fit for the EPL.  It is flawed beyond belief.  But he never ever reflected on that failure or made any adjustments or changes at all.  Ever.

 

One reason for all of this is perhaps because he is hugely lazy.  From his interviews over his time at Leeds it was clear that unlike many other managers he didnt put much time into researching or preparing teams. He set up the same time after time.  Early on in his time he was asked about how he would deal with various problems with the team from previous games and it was clear he hadn't even bothered to watch them back.  This isn't a "he isn't Bielsa" thing - our new manager, Javia Gracia (who may or may not keep us up) clearly carefully prepares us for every game and sets up to compete with whoever we are playing, adjusting as necessary.  Marsch never showed any evidence of that.  Most of the time when asked about game preparation, he just talked about "taking pressure off the players" and "playing without fear" when it was clear from a few games in that he was the one who was falling apart not the players.  FWIW he seemed to spend way too much time out in Harrogate with his other half midweek when he might have been putting effort into technical analysis and match prep, but maybe that was just his way of coping with his problems operating in a high pressure environment like the EPL.  Whatever, it didnt work for us as a club. 

 

I think that's probably enough.  Perhaps Marsch will have reflected and learnt from what didnt work at Leeds.  But given his personality and approach that seems highly unlikely.  He speaks well and starts out as a little bouncing ball of positivity and energy.  But before long it becomes clear that he is fairly clueless and non-reflective, has no idea of how to fix stuff that obviously isn't working, cannot handle pressure at all well, and - eventually - alienates the players in a big way.  Most of our fan base now see him as having been an absolute fraud and spoofer.  Some took longer than others to get to that point, but by the end nearly everyone could see it, in and out of the club.  It was notable that no players at Leeds wished him well or offered him thanks when he left the club.

Good insight. And from what I’ve seen and heard from most Leeds fans this is how they also feel about him. 
 

I think our fans are just desperate, the whole “give him a chance” approach when he’s had one, at a decent club and he’s completely flopped. 
 

It’s a “haven’t got a ****ing clue” appointment, and all it will do is sink us fans even further into a depression than we already are.

[21st Century Fox]

What sort of time can we expect Marsch to make substitutions? 60 on the dot?

[Rossiter]

40 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

We’re probably 1 of the most famous football clubs of the last 10 years, and as it stands now, currently in the premier league. I don’t think we should have to get in an American manager to try and get some investment from somewhere

I've heard from people in the far east that they've been trying to get investment for quite some time. Advertising in the press there etc.  Covid really hit King Power as a lot of money was made from Chinese tourism which has still to get going again. Maybe you're right but, to date, no investment has materialised. 

[Guest Mee-9]

 

Enjoy every minute of it. The switch in languages, the PASHUN. 

[RedSoxUK]

21 minutes ago, USMNT Matt said:

 

He's worked closely with Chris Armas previously and I think he'd be the first choice. Ewan Sharp and Cameron Toshack also tend to go with him so likely will for this as well. I'd really like to see Orta go with him from Leeds as he's a talented DOF - albeit a little erratic in his personality - but has the right sort of profile for a club like Foxes

I mean our director of football has his arm firmly up the owners arse so I very much doubt we'll be smart on the DoF front, but who knows Rudkin should fall at the end of the season overseeing this shit show.

[BielsaIsGod]

4 minutes ago, 21st Century Fox said:

What sort of time can we expect Marsch to make substitutions? 60 on the dot?

Usually a like for like midfield swap at about 75 mins and then "chuck on a couple of untested U21strikers at 89mins when 2-0 down and hoping for some sort of miracle" towards the end iirc.