Rudkin

[jamesmilner]

On 10/08/2024 at 21:22, jock2612 said:

WE know from Enzo that Rudkin did not communicate the clubs financial position. Any descent DOF would have had theses discussions. He is out of his depth & a total incompetent who is now threating to ruin the club for years to come.  

The director of football (DoF) title appears to be a lingering anachronism from the bygone days when the managers tended to be all-encompassing operators, whose powers in roughly all aspects of their football clubs – bar finances and commercial operations .DoF are not allowed anywhere near finance decisions at most clubs . Its just how it is .  

Edited 13 August by jamesmilner

[CosbehFox]

55 minutes ago, jamesmilner said:

The director of football (DoF) title appears to be a lingering anachronism from the bygone days when the managers tended to be all-encompassing operators, whose powers in roughly all aspects of their football clubs – bar finances and commercial operations .DoF are not allowed anywhere near finance decisions at most clubs . Its just how it is .  

The original post wasn’t saying anything about Rudkin and financial decisions but rather communication of the financial situation 

[jamesmilner]

5 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

The original post wasn’t saying anything about Rudkin and financial decisions but rather communication of the financial situation 

So its not in his position to talk about it then . Why would he if not asked ? 

[Wymsey]

Should Whelan take any responsibility?

[CosbehFox]

20 minutes ago, jamesmilner said:

So its not in his position to talk about it then . Why would he if not asked ? 

So let me get this right - you are saying that a Director of Football does not have an awareness of the budget set by the financial team and therefore can not communicate to the manager (and a scouting team) what parameters they working in? And a manager wouldn't ask these questions throughout a season or in the lead-up to each transfer window. 

 

I think we have the reason why we might be in the shit then. 

Edited 13 August by CosbehFox

[Incognito]

I wonder if Rudkin was the one to pay Katie Price to pose nude with a turd on her stomach?!

 

Just joking Jon 👍

[Tommy G]

3 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Should Whelan take any responsibility?

Of course, the CEO has ultimate responsibility for all areas of how a business operates, in this case a football club, because apparently a football club is ran fundamentally different to a business. 

[Wymsey]

10 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Of course, the CEO has ultimate responsibility for all areas of how a business operates, in this case a football club, because apparently a football club is ran fundamentally different to a business. 

What about the accounting side of it?

[Tommy G]

9 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

What about the accounting side of it?

FD’s responsibility authorised by the board. Susan Whelan signs off the accounts so she will be fully in the know too. 

[blue army 1988]

13 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Should Whelan take any responsibility?

100% but she seems to mostly get away with it on this forum.

[mozartfox]

Director of Chaos is a better description. We need change and we deserve change.

[Babylon]

On 10/08/2024 at 21:22, jock2612 said:

WE know from Enzo that Rudkin did not communicate the clubs financial position. Any descent DOF would have had theses discussions. He is out of his depth & a total incompetent who is now threating to ruin the club for years to come.  

You know what Enzo told you, which is one side of the story. I've said it before, but Enzo isn't an idiot and neither would his agent be. They were well aware that as a relegated club we'd need to sell players, I very much doubt that case wasn't communicated. He was then handed one of, if not THE most expsnsively paid set of players to ever grace the championship along with about £40m to spend, again, one of the biggest budgets ever seen. 

 

To then turn around in the January and express shock at the situation of not having money (I mean, did he even ask) always felt some what off to me. Things weren't going to suddenly change from the summer situation. Now, fair enough he might not have known about the PSR stuff, but it was a bit bloody rich to moan about not having funds etc. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

You know what Enzo told you, which is one side of the story. I've said it before, but Enzo isn't an idiot and neither would his agent be. They were well aware that as a relegated club we'd need to sell players, I very much doubt that case wasn't communicated. He was then handed one of, if not THE most expsnsively paid set of players to ever grace the championship along with about £40m to spend, again, one of the biggest budgets ever seen. 

 

To then turn around in the January and express shock at the situation of not having money (I mean, did he even ask) always felt some what off to me. Things weren't going to suddenly change from the summer situation. Now, fair enough he might not have known about the PSR stuff, but it was a bit bloody rich to moan about not having funds etc. 

fair point but we had or did sell Maddison, Barnes, Castagne and Hirst which would have been over £80m which could have been believed or even confirmed would be sufficient at the time. 
 

Had we not sold anyone then I would agree Enzo and his agent would be beyond naive to not foresee a financial issue, however given what was raised through sales it is feasible that the club believed we would be ok and therefore didn’t tell Enzo until they had realised the problem was bigger than initially envisaged. 

[jamesmilner]

17 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

So let me get this right - you are saying that a Director of Football does not have an awareness of the budget set by the financial team and therefore can not communicate to the manager (and a scouting team) what parameters they working in? And a manager wouldn't ask these questions throughout a season or in the lead-up to each transfer window. 

 

I think we have the reason why we might be in the shit then. 

Scouting team Scout, nothing to do with money or ffp .Awareness, isn't ability to talk about the finances.   Control of finances is a no .

 At the club BBQ yesterday , it was quite plain and obvious a certain lady was in control . 

[CosbehFox]

19 minutes ago, jamesmilner said:

Scouting team Scout, nothing to do with money or ffp .Awareness, isn't ability to talk about the finances.   Control of finances is a no .

 At the club BBQ yesterday , it was quite plain and obvious a certain lady was in control . 

Yeah I don’t think you are getting my point. I wouldn’t say expect a DoF to control finances or set them but I’d expect him to be aware of the budget which then they communicate to the manager and the scouting team. 
 

The scouts need to be aware of budget (or most certainly Glover does). What’s the point of a scouting team if they keep giving unrealistic names? According to some on here; the scouts are the ones what tell Rudkin who much to bid 
 

Equally I’d expect a CEO to be quite well involved at a club staff BBQ.

 

 

Edited 14 August by CosbehFox

[jamesmilner]

12 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Yeah I don’t think you are getting my point. I wouldn’t say expect a DoF to control finances or set them but I’d expect him to be aware of the budget which then they communicate to the manager and the scouting team. 
 

The scouts need to be aware of budget (or most certainly Glover does). What’s the point of a scouting team if they keep giving unrealistic names? According to some on here; the scouts are the ones what tell Rudkin who much to bid 
 

Equally I’d expect a CEO to be quite well involved at a club staff BBQ.

 

 

I know the scouting teams dont work to a budget ,as who sets the initial price of a player ? The club who own him .  .Any scout can say buy 'Watkins etc' i know but most scouts are looking for the 'Kante' player . Rudkin does not say how much to bid on any player trust me . If you think a DoF should have top skills in business and a  business plan, then you're moving on to the position of 'technical director ' https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-does-a-technical-director-do-in-football

The lady in question has a big say at LCFC , massive . She helps run a company that makes billions .

Watch how hard a dof position is at Villa as discussed to day on Talksport and these guys are good at it . 

 

[jamesmilner]

15 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Of course, the CEO has ultimate responsibility for all areas of how a business operates, in this case a football club, because apparently a football club is ran fundamentally different to a business. 

Hellalujah !

[CosbehFox]

Correct the club who own the player do have a say on the price - equally I’d expect the buying club to have what they consider fair value. Someone has to be that barometer of what value is. 
 

If we go back to that original point, the communication between manager and DoF with the budget is important because that might affect how you view that ‘value’.
 

The technical director is the same role as director of football (it’s just a semantics thing) as shown here https://www.premierleague.com/news/3991780 . In fact our man Jon is listed there as the man with that role at LCFC 
 

That article goes into great detail the expectation of what Rudkin should be doing. I don’t doubt it’s a hard job but if those tasks aren’t been done by himself, then the club isn’t being run into a manner expected of modern football

Edited 14 August by CosbehFox

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

Yeah I don’t think you are getting my point. I wouldn’t say expect a DoF to control finances or set them but I’d expect him to be aware of the budget which then they communicate to the manager and the scouting team. 
 

The scouts need to be aware of budget (or most certainly Glover does). What’s the point of a scouting team if they keep giving unrealistic names? According to some on here; the scouts are the ones what tell Rudkin who much to bid 
 

Equally I’d expect a CEO to be quite well involved at a club staff BBQ.

 

 

Let's just clariify this, it came from people who worked at the club when every man and their dog wanted to interview our staff about the goings on at the club because we did so well. They laid out how they worked and it included basically handing over a deal that was already partially negotiated. 

 

I'm not going to spend hours trying to find the exact article or excert from a book, so I appreciate I can only offer my word on it here. But here is a little bit in one of Rob McKenzies interviews that talks about them and the finances side of things. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10716991/the-changing-face-of-scouting-dealing-with-agents

 

"One of the jobs of the modern scout is to filter out the names that get thrown at you on a daily basis. The key is to be able to explain quickly and succinctly why they do not fit the profile of player that the club is looking for. And even if they do fit the profile, is there an alternative available for half the price? Have you considered all the options?"

 

John Rudkin is not a scout, he does not scout players, he's not there to know every single player in world football and what they are valued at. The club literally employ "experts" in their field who are meant to spend their time looking at all of this stuff. Walsh used to talk about building links with players and clubs etc long before we bid. That they've basically hand the club a player and an already partially done transfer deal. 

 

What he is going to be responsible for is hiring the wrong people in the wrong positions at the head of the scouting department. Hire the wrong people there... eg. A certain managers mate who was useless at his previous clubs, then they might give you duff info because they are rubbish at their job, or because the manager has too much inflluence on them. One wrong decision can lead to dozens and dozens of poor decisions down the chain. 

 

Edited 14 August by Babylon

[Stadt]

If clubs only ever bid what the selling club asked for very little business would be done.

[SafewayFox]

Let’s get out Rudkin’s puff piece from the other month.

 

That will settle any debate 

[AshbyBlue]

Mate of mine worked at Tony Pulis house for a few weeks and he ask him about transfers and players and he said at the start of the season I would give the Dof a list of 8 players he wanted and said you were lucky if you got 3 in but more likely 2 because of agents fees,and wages.He also said he would give the names of positions he wanted and the scouts would recemed other options.So must be a bit of a nightmare trying to assemble your team.Mate said he makes a top fry up.

[Tielemans63]

Give the guy a break, he's working hard at getting none of these deals over the line.

[mozartfox]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

Let's just clariify this, it came from people who worked at the club when every man and their dog wanted to interview our staff about the goings on at the club because we did so well. They laid out how they worked and it included basically handing over a deal that was already partially negotiated. 

 

I'm not going to spend hours trying to find the exact article or excert from a book, so I appreciate I can only offer my word on it here. But here is a little bit in one of Rob McKenzies interviews that talks about them and the finances side of things. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10716991/the-changing-face-of-scouting-dealing-with-agents

 

"One of the jobs of the modern scout is to filter out the names that get thrown at you on a daily basis. The key is to be able to explain quickly and succinctly why they do not fit the profile of player that the club is looking for. And even if they do fit the profile, is there an alternative available for half the price? Have you considered all the options?"

 

John Rudkin is not a scout, he does not scout players, he's not there to know every single player in world football and what they are valued at. The club literally employ "experts" in their field who are meant to spend their time looking at all of this stuff. Walsh used to talk about building links with players and clubs etc long before we bid. That they've basically hand the club a player and an already partially done transfer deal. 

 

What he is going to be responsible for is hiring the wrong people in the wrong positions at the head of the scouting department. Hire the wrong people there... eg. A certain managers mate who was useless at his previous clubs, then they might give you duff info because they are rubbish at their job, or because the manager has too much inflluence on them. One wrong decision can lead to dozens and dozens of poor decisions down the chain. 

 

0ff topic from Rudkin for a minute.  These experts you reference surely cannot be suggesting we sign Ayew?  Can they?

 

If so, Rudkin should be telling them to stop smoking spliffs on Club time.

[Babylon]

14 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

0ff topic from Rudkin for a minute.  These experts you reference surely cannot be suggesting we sign Ayew?  Can they?

 

If so, Rudkin should be telling them to stop smoking spliffs on Club time.

Exactly why I put “experts”. But budget and our ability to commit to long term contracts is obviously dictating a lot.

 

Ayew is very well liked at Palace, so it depends what the manager has asked for doesn’t it.