Rudkin

[Out Foxed]

fudkin

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

It was said way back that the scouting team pass on the general value of a player, are involved in making sure we get value etc. He's not a scout. That doesn't absolve him of everything clearly, for all we know he just ignores that information. But it's not all on him, he could be getting recommended a shit player and being giving duff info about their value. 

 

That's why I always say I'd rather focus on what is likely his decision, in putting the head of recruitment in place. Eg. Getting Congerton despite a clear history of rubbish. He allowed the manager to dictate a key position in the club. Those for me are the failings there. I can see him falling for all the bluster Rodgers used to come out with about Congerton spotting X and Y players. 

 

To balance that, I would say Mascia was a decent decision and the new guy the jury is out so far. Nobody is going to get it right all the time. 

 

We don't know for sure, but I suspect there isn't a great deal of forward planning. You'd like to think the scouting team were tasked with watching managers and signings of other clubs so see who is building a reputation for great work, so that we can keep them in mind. But it doesn't really feel like that with some of our decisions. Again, I think that forward planning is a potential failure point. 

Our wage structure is certainly a collective decision. I'd still mark a good chunk of that on the Director of Football in their negotiations with players, likewise the transfer fees as its well documented we've paid extremely well and not been able to move players on as a result of it.

 

However, it was a clear strategy of the club that in order to try and remain challenging the top 7, we had to have a wage structure that enabled that. I.e reward players with new contracts comparable to salaries they'd get elsewhere (within reason) and starting salaries that aren't too out of kilter with our best players terms. That's a hard process to juggle and what we've fallen foul of IMO.

 

Who's fault that is, it's not one singular individual but certain areas who are massively involved come under the Microscope.

[Tommy G]

2 hours ago, MGLCFC said:

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not here. I did say I didn't blame Rudkin for signing players recommended to him by Head of Recruitment or managers and that with all clubs signings can be hit or miss. What I'm baffled by are the contracts. Why do we offer such lucrative contracts when we are then lumbered with players who no one wants or can afford. Similarly, some responsibility has to lie with Rudkin for allowing players to run down contracts, rather than cashing in - again it probably boils down to the fact they don't want to move because of the contracts they are on.

Because if we don't offer the contract someone else will - we also aren't an attractive club compared to other PL teams - location or size of club - so to make it more atractive we probably have to pay slightly more. 

 

On the flip side - doesn't mean you give into agent and players demands and roll over, but I suspect we are paying market rate for wages or slightly above - I'm not sure we are out of the ordinary here. 

 

We could pay less in wages and offer shorter contracts but you will end up with a team full of average players, it's a tricky balancing act. 

 

Also offloading a player who you think is mustard at the time then turns out to be cr*p, it becomes harder. 

[Tommy G]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Our wage structure is certainly a collective decision. I'd still mark a good chunk of that on the Director of Football in their negotiations with players, likewise the transfer fees as its well documented we've paid extremely well and not been able to move players on as a result of it.

 

However, it was a clear strategy of the club that in order to try and remain challenging the top 7, we had to have a wage structure that enabled that. I.e reward players with new contracts comparable to salaries they'd get elsewhere (within reason) and starting salaries that aren't too out of kilter with our best players terms. That's a hard process to juggle and what we've fallen foul of IMO.

 

Who's fault that is, it's not one singular individual but certain areas who are massively involved come under the Microscope.

I've just pretty much wrote the same thing with a sandwich hanging out my mouth so your piece is worded a bit better 

[Heskey2011]

The internal and external teams hired by who exactly?

It's not completely gash is it, come on man give it a rest, people even Rudkin, have done bad things but also has done good things.

You've no idea who did what at the end of the day so how can you be so direct in your blame?

Balance, or being objective is considering as many factors as possible, you're being deliberately blind to the positive stuff, makes your arguments for negative sound daft.

 

 

 

 

[Tommy G]

24 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Complete gash.

 

The appeal was needed because of the consequences of his actions.

 

The only people who deserve praise from the result of the appeal are the extended internal and external legal teams.

 

Rudkin's action's plunged the club into massive debt, rendered the squad devoid of talent, and gifted a ridiculous manager at the helm for this season. This hasn't changed one iota despite a legal appeal over a points deduction.

 

This has nothing to do with balance.

Rudkin and the rest of the board you mean. The club isn't in debt apart from your normal leveraged football club, this is a PSR issue related to allowable losses, not how the balance sheet is structured. 

 

I agree with your point on the the internal and external lawyers but the rest of it is gash. 

 

 

[mazarron fox]

4 hours ago, Viva said:

You’re deluded if you think we can compete in the top 6 year after year. No club our size can in this modern era. 
We tried and did it for a few years. It only takes two bad transfer windows for it to change. We then can’t buy more players to turn it back around like clubs like Chelsea can. 

Absolutely this. We haven’t got the income/ financial global appeal to sustain a push year after year. Bad window the end , had we have had a good window sooner or later the status quo would return. It’s not a level playing surface, it’s broken.

[Mickyblueeyes]

31 minutes ago, Heskey2011 said:

The internal and external teams hired by who exactly?

It's not completely gash is it, come on man give it a rest, people even Rudkin, have done bad things but also has done good things.

You've no idea who did what at the end of the day so how can you be so direct in your blame?

Balance, or being objective is considering as many factors as possible, you're being deliberately blind to the positive stuff, makes your arguments for negative sound daft.

 

 

 

 

Internal legal team i.e. the GC - would’ve been CEO.

 

Legal Counsels would’ve been hired by the GC.

 

External legal team - would’ve been hired by the GC.

 

Advice to board to pursue claim and risk further permission - would’ve been GC presentation.

 

Decision to pursue external legal advice and GC presentation - would’ve been board as whole. 
 

GC neck on the line on risking of further permission and pissing off two regulators at once for no reward. 
 

He has done a stellar job. Takes balls.

[The whole world smiles]

2 hours ago, Stadt said:

I also want Top and Whelan out so it's not all on Rudkin.

 

If we lost the legal appeal that wouldn't have been Rudkin's fault, obviously. He's a large part of why we had to do it in the first place though.

 

He was DoF when the good stuff happened, true but it was primarily under a different owner in Vichai. Rudkin can take the credit for bringing Rodgers in but we all know how that ended.

 

I don't think anybody thinks he's an all powerful executive but he is the director of football at a football club and the football part has been particularly shoddy recently.

 

So it's a combination of Top and Rudkin making the bad decisions.

 

I think the Rudkin out, Top in brigade are in denial tbh. Top isn't cut out for the role as evidenced by his don't be mean to me statement after we got relegated. We were promised a review after we got relegated and the findings weren't announced, nor do we even know if it happened.

Yes this is part of what I've been getting at. Being Rudkin out is an outlet for people who don't feel comfortable attacking the ownership after everything that's happened (huge success, vichai death etc) but still want to whinge a moan about the direction of travel when its pretty obvious that whatever Rudkin does or doesn't do day to day he is tops right hand man.

 

I also think more people on the board would stick up for top so it's perhaps a slightly cowardly way to have a good vent without being pulled up.

 

you will have to scroll a long way down to find a thread on top.

Edited 5 September by The whole world smiles

[The whole world smiles]

2 hours ago, Daggers said:

Complete gash.

 

The appeal was needed because of the consequences of his actions.

 

The only people who deserve praise from the result of the appeal are the extended internal and external legal teams.

 

Rudkin's action's plunged the club into massive debt, rendered the squad devoid of talent, and gifted a ridiculous manager at the helm for this season. This hasn't changed one iota despite a legal appeal over a points deduction.

 

This has nothing to do with balance.

I can't obviously say for sure what you personally would or wouldn't do but if you are honestly saying this thread wouldn't have gone hot the minute we failed our appeal then your deluded.

[Stadt]

Just now, The whole world smiles said:

I can't obviously say for sure what you personally would or wouldn't do but if you are honestly saying this thread wouldn't have gone hot the minute we failed our appeal then your deluded.

People would be rightly angry with Rudkin’s role in this mess, he is one of the most culpable people. The appeal is little to do with him, some people will wrongly conflate that I get that but he played a big role in us being charged in the first instance.

 

The people that think replacing Rudkin is a silver bullet are short-sighted but it’s also  more likely than a change of ownership.

 

It’s the low hanging fruit at the club. Tempt an astute DoF from a smart club and give them the same authority as Rudkin and we’d be in a better position over the next five years - I’m certain.

[SafewayFox]

8 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

I agree with this regarding transfers that you should look at the heads of recruitment and see if their period was a success. 

 

Steve Walsh: big success

Macia: big success

Congerton big disappointment

Glover: jury still out but last summer was ace

 

So based on that he is doing his job.

How about basing it on how well he negotiates deals (incomings and outgoings).

 

Surely you can’t overlook the millions of pounds worth of assets that have walked away for free as “him doing his job”.

[kingston_fox]

Based on experience, someone at the TOP is asking for things and people below don't want to say no and will deliver it regardless of the consequences.

 

The fact he isn't trusted to deal with the big deals says it all. Clearly over-spent/didn't balance the books with the outgoings on the football side and the business side has had to deal with it via the legal channels. Out of his depth and needs to go now

[Dan LCFC]

On 04/09/2024 at 22:54, The whole world smiles said:

I'm not one to stick up for Rudkin, There has obviously been mistakes made over the last 5 years and I find the lack of transparency and lack of respect shown to the fans absolutely infuriating.

 

But...

 

what I find baffling about the Rudkin out mob. Literally anything that goes wrong at the club is his fault entirely and anything that goes right is someone else's responsibility to take credit for.

 

If we had lost the legal appeal and got 6 points deducted with none taken of for co-operation can anyone honestly say with a straight face that it wouldn't have got pinned on Rudkin on here? So surely he then has to take a small amount of credit now?

 

As well as the relegation and ffp breaches which were obviously bad he was also doing exactly the same job when we won the premier league, fa cup and qualified for Europe 5 times which is obviously good.

 

He can't be some all powerful exec with his grubby hands on every bad decision whilst simultaneously being in his office wanking it off while all the good decisions are being made.

 

You can't blame him for 100 percent of the bad and credit him with 0 percent of the good to do so insults people's intelligence and in my case turns me off your cause because it's so obviously not logical and biassed.

If we had been deducted points it would've been something he was responsible for overseeing. The fact we've gotten off means it's simply something we can't hold as much against him (and it's not just him by the way) rather than something we can praise him for. We didn't get away with it because of good process and good organisation, unless that's what people think has actually taken place.

 

The red flags are there even this summer. Left our business late, panicked, overpaid and have quite obviously caved into a managers demands again like we did Rodgers. We've made numerous poor economical moves again tying ageing players to lucrative and long contracts. He should be the one saying no to this sort of thing, unless he believes this is the way forward - which I would disagree with him on. If he isn't saying no, then he either believes in this way, or he's having things dictated to again by those supposedly below him. Exactly what got us into the mess in the first place.

 

Nobody on here will convince me he's any good. But like I said earlier - he isn't the sole issue. He's a big issue but I find the tolerance of his performance even more concerning and that comes from above him. Rudkin wasn't 'good' when Rodgers clearly needed sacking either and Rodgers was getting barrels on here. Rodgers was simply the most replaceable at the time.

[Dan LCFC]

On 05/09/2024 at 10:55, Tommy G said:

I think we are all guilty of hindsight, no club will get every transfer right and we can pick out many good signings as bad - everyone agrees post winning the league and champions league money was wasted - Rudkin and the whole management team were thrown into managing a bigger beast overnight with money flying in - pressure from all ends to recruit and spend money and continue the success, whether it be fans, media etc. PSR has come in after this to protect the big 6 and stifle clubs like ours - and we still maanged to win the FA cup.

 

I think Tete is a really good recent example - as fans we thought he was the next Mahrez, the excitement and euphoria on this forum was boiling over - and he turned out to be absolute w*ank - so us as fans get it wrong about a player too. Look how many awful signings Man Utd have made? Spent £600m under Ten Haag on absolute dross. Everton - dross. Chelsea - complete scattergun sh*t show. Bournemouth, Brighton, Arsenal to an extent have done well. Newcastle haven't been able to kick on. 

 

 

Tete's honestly not the best example, he gets highlighted because he came with a lot of excitement and didn't deliver, but at least there wasn't some long term commitment to him. Tete costs us nothing beyond May 2023. Someone like Ayew or Reid if they don't perform will be costing us for years.

 

This isn't to say Tete was a good signing, if all signings got a pass on simply not costing much we'd never get anywhere, but we've made far worse deals. Souttar for example is a disaster in comparison.

[Tommy G]

6 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Tete's honestly not the best example, he gets highlighted because he came with a lot of excitement and didn't deliver, but at least there wasn't some long term commitment to him. Tete costs us nothing beyond May 2023. Someone like Ayew or Reid if they don't perform will be costing us for years.

 

This isn't to say Tete was a good signing, if all signings got a pass on simply not costing much we'd never get anywhere, but we've made far worse deals. Souttar for example is a disaster in comparison.

Sorry my point was not around cost, my point being we all thought he would be class - as did the scouting team, so I was trying to explain (badly) that it’s not easy to get every signing right despite best efforts 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

On 05/09/2024 at 14:29, Ric Flair said:

Our wage structure is certainly a collective decision. I'd still mark a good chunk of that on the Director of Football in their negotiations with players, likewise the transfer fees as its well documented we've paid extremely well and not been able to move players on as a result of it.

 

However, it was a clear strategy of the club that in order to try and remain challenging the top 7, we had to have a wage structure that enabled that. I.e reward players with new contracts comparable to salaries they'd get elsewhere (within reason) and starting salaries that aren't too out of kilter with our best players terms. That's a hard process to juggle and what we've fallen foul of IMO.

 

Who's fault that is, it's not one singular individual but certain areas who are massively involved come under the Microscope.

Also when those highly paid players turn to shit they become harder to offload. As we have experienced countless times there are few destinations for PL flops. And combine that with when you stall a bit, you get players running their contracts down and becoming less motivated by the minute. All culminating in losing assets for diddly squat.

 

We should have never gone after “established” players. As soon as we did that, and moved away from what Brighton are doing now, we simply couldn’t sustain it. It was a total shambles how it unravelled. I will never ever forgive those responsible.

Edited 6 September by Wasyls Pec Deck

[hackneyfox]

On 04/09/2024 at 23:54, The whole world smiles said:

I'm not one to stick up for Rudkin, There has obviously been mistakes made over the last 5 years and I find the lack of transparency and lack of respect shown to the fans absolutely infuriating.

 

But...

 

what I find baffling about the Rudkin out mob. Literally anything that goes wrong at the club is his fault entirely and anything that goes right is someone else's responsibility to take credit for.

 

If we had lost the legal appeal and got 6 points deducted with none taken of for co-operation can anyone honestly say with a straight face that it wouldn't have got pinned on Rudkin on here? So surely he then has to take a small amount of credit now?

 

As well as the relegation and ffp breaches which were obviously bad he was also doing exactly the same job when we won the premier league, fa cup and qualified for Europe 5 times which is obviously good.

 

He can't be some all powerful exec with his grubby hands on every bad decision whilst simultaneously being in his office wanking it off while all the good decisions are being made.

 

You can't blame him for 100 percent of the bad and credit him with 0 percent of the good to do so insults people's intelligence and in my case turns me off your cause because it's so obviously not logical and biassed.

Good points, well made but have we qualified for Europe 5 times?

[The whole world smiles]

9 hours ago, hackneyfox said:

Good points, well made but have we qualified for Europe 5 times?

I don't think so champions league with Claudio and Europa league twice with Brendan one time we ended up in the conference league I'm the same season so it probably felt like 5 times.

[Foxin_Mad]

Unbelievable really that people try to make a case for this absolute clown. He's a failure end of. A decent Premier League club's somehow managed to let it's football operations get so bad it went from top 10 to relegation in one season. That is a failure.

 

Rudkin is in charge of football it's failing, it's still failing and we will if we continue as we have started be relegated again. 

 

The guy has been promoted beyond his capability, he's a youth club coach, that's it. That parts not his fault but he's out of his depth. 

[moore_94]

Leuven's technical director doing a video about his first transfer window at the club, his first few months at the club and looking ahead

 

We will never see anything like this from Rudkin or Whelan or anyone else at the club will we?

 

 

 

 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

3 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Rudkin is in charge of football it's failing, it's still failing and we will if we continue as we have started be relegated again. 

 

The guy has been promoted beyond his capability, he's a youth club coach, that's it. That parts not his fault but he's out of his depth. 

And weren’t the youth teams pretty pants when he was involved with them?

Edited 7 September by Wasyls Pec Deck

[Royston.]

Maybe Top knows his onions and has given rudders a fancy job title but he really does nothing apart from rub Tops belly........

[Foxmeister]

On 05/09/2024 at 07:43, Viva said:

Ah yes, the ok Jon reply. Not had that one before. 

It's the sheep who laugh at it every single time that gets me.

[Dan LCFC]

22 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Sorry my point was not around cost, my point being we all thought he would be class - as did the scouting team, so I was trying to explain (badly) that it’s not easy to get every signing right despite best efforts 

I'd agree with you on that but I do think you can make signings where the worst case scenario isn't being tied down to some potential deadwood for years and we've done this on numerous occasions - plenty happening this summer.

 

I just think we allow ourselves a bit too much risk. Our business this summer to me risks quite a lot of downside and unless the likes of El Khannouss and Okoli are top drawer (there's a chance with El Khannouss) there isn't tonnes of upside. If we do end up going down it's a really damaging window for me.