Rudkin

[gurru991]

23 minutes ago, glasgowfox said:

I don't really understand how it works guys tbh.  Surely Rudkin cannot make all of these decisions on his own?  I get he is the Head but would think there has to be a meeting of minds over contracts, wages, transfers and acceptable fees for players...I very much doubt if he decided to get rid of for example KDH he would not be able to make that decision himself and it be carried through which I guess is the same with everything else he does or does not do.

We don't know a quarter of what actually goes on within our club or anyone else's for that matter. If we believe half of what we read here, Rudkin makes all the decisions at the club with no input from anyone else

[Adster]

Just now, gurru991 said:

We don't know a quarter of what actually goes on within our club or anyone else's for that matter. If we believe half of what we read here, Rudkin makes all the decisions at the club with no input from anyone else

Come on. Its corporate business. That's definitely not how it'll work. 

 

It's likely Rudkin will have a team that report into the DoF. But like with any business, the director will assume ultimate responsibility for decisions made by either himself or his direct reports. 

 

The main reason I typically stay out of these arguments is because of what you're saying though. No one has definitive proof of the structure/processes that govern footballing decisions of the club. As such, its a pointless debate. I'm not saying Rudkin gets a free pass, I just think it's niave and borderline childish to throw the "iTs AlL RuDkInS FaUlT" narrative every time there is a perceived "bad decision" made at the club. 

[gurru991]

23 minutes ago, glasgowfox said:

I don't really understand how it works guys tbh.  Surely Rudkin cannot make all of these decisions on his own?  I get he is the Head but would think there has to be a meeting of minds over contracts, wages, transfers and acceptable fees for players...I very much doubt if he decided to get rid of for example KDH he would not be able to make that decision himself and it be carried through which I guess is the same with everything else he does or does not do.

We don't know a quarter of what actually goes on within our club or anyone else's for that matter. If we believe half of what we read here, Rudkin makes all the decisions at the club with no input from anyone else

[Ricey]

4 hours ago, Tuna said:

People think it's football manager, don't work like that.

Football Manager don’t work like that either.

[Tuna]

5 minutes ago, Ricey said:

Football Manager don’t work like that either.

I used it as an example of people thinking everything is done by a click of a button, as in a computer game

[Dan LCFC]

The only let-off I give Rudkin, and it isn't really a let-off, is that the longer he's in place the longer I think he is just simply carrying out the instructions from above.

[Dan LCFC]

2 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

People are saying that it’s harder than it might look, so let’s have a look a couple of other clubs who have to be careful around FFP and what they managed to get done this summer…

 

Southampton’s player sales for a fee:

 

Ward-Prowse (West Ham)

Tella (Bauer Leverkusen)

Djenepo (Standard Liege)

Nlandulu (Bolton)

Chauke (Burton Albion)

Orsic (Trabzonspor)

Diallo (Al-Duhail)

Livramento (Newcastle)

Salisu (Monaco)

Lavia (Chelsea)

Olaigbe (Cercle Brugge)

Bycroft (Swindon Town)

 

12 players shifted for a fee. Not all superstars that were cherry-picked. Many that will have been on decent wages and who were brought in for significant fees. Sold to all corners of the globe and all

levels of the English football pyramid. 
 

Now let’s look at Everton:

 

Price (Standard Liege)

Nkounkou (Saint Etienne)

Kean (Juventus)

Simms (Coventry)

Samuels-Smith (Chelsea)

Cannon (Leicester)

Iwobi (Fulham)

Gray (Al-Ettifaq)

 

8 players sold for a fee. Again, sold around Europe and lower down the English pyramid. A nice fee in there from the Saudi gold rush to boot.

 

Now let’s look at ourselves…

 

We sold 5 (Maddison, Barnes, Castagne, Hirst and Odunze) for a fee. Three out of five I’d have been able to find a buyer for myself. Four out of five were sold to clubs in the English pyramid.

 

So what is it about Leicester City that means we struggle to sell where other clubs don’t? How come

we are unable to do business on the continent or in the Middle East? Why can other clubs shift players they don’t want, or need, for a fee, whereas we can only sell our coveted assets or release players on free transfers?

 

Those of you who say it’s not like Football Manager are right. It requires a little black book of contacts. It requires a network. It requires favours from old friends and proactivity to get out and make connections before clubs even realise they have a need for a player.

 

Is Mr Rudkin doing that? Did he build those agent and club connections when he was running the academy? Was he out in the market making things happen during the Thailand PR tour this summer or sat next to Top at functions and meaningless games like some sort of glorified Executive Assistant?

 

You might want to cut him some slack. But until I’m told different than it’s his remit and his job to get players out of the door in a beneficial manner, I’ll continue to point the finger and demand a little more for the good

of the club.

Great stuff. The other teams lists sum it up completely to me. The bloke isn't good enough.

[st albans fox]

5 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

People are saying that it’s harder than it might look, so let’s have a look a couple of other clubs who have to be careful around FFP and what they managed to get done this summer…

 

Southampton’s player sales for a fee:

 

Ward-Prowse (West Ham)

Tella (Bauer Leverkusen)

Djenepo (Standard Liege)

Nlandulu (Bolton)

Chauke (Burton Albion)

Orsic (Trabzonspor)

Diallo (Al-Duhail)

Livramento (Newcastle)

Salisu (Monaco)

Lavia (Chelsea)

Olaigbe (Cercle Brugge)

Bycroft (Swindon Town)

 

12 players shifted for a fee. Not all superstars that were cherry-picked. Many that will have been on decent wages and who were brought in for significant fees. Sold to all corners of the globe and all

levels of the English football pyramid. 
 

Now let’s look at Everton:

 

Price (Standard Liege)

Nkounkou (Saint Etienne)

Kean (Juventus)

Simms (Coventry)

Samuels-Smith (Chelsea)

Cannon (Leicester)

Iwobi (Fulham)

Gray (Al-Ettifaq)

 

8 players sold for a fee. Again, sold around Europe and lower down the English pyramid. A nice fee in there from the Saudi gold rush to boot.

 

Now let’s look at ourselves…

 

We sold 5 (Maddison, Barnes, Castagne, Hirst and Odunze) for a fee. Three out of five I’d have been able to find a buyer for myself. Four out of five were sold to clubs in the English pyramid.

 

So what is it about Leicester City that means we struggle to sell where other clubs don’t? How come

we are unable to do business on the continent or in the Middle East? Why can other clubs shift players they don’t want, or need, for a fee, whereas we can only sell our coveted assets or release players on free transfers?

 

Those of you who say it’s not like Football Manager are right. It requires a little black book of contacts. It requires a network. It requires favours from old friends and proactivity to get out and make connections before clubs even realise they have a need for a player.

 

Is Mr Rudkin doing that? Did he build those agent and club connections when he was running the academy? Was he out in the market making things happen during the Thailand PR tour this summer or sat next to Top at functions and meaningless games like some sort of glorified Executive Assistant?

 

You might want to cut him some slack. But until I’m told different than it’s his remit and his job to get players out of the door in a beneficial manner, I’ll continue to point the finger and demand a little more for the good

of the club.

 

 

 

The ones we wanted out were on higher wages than most of those at other clubs (probably rudkin’s fault) and it would have actually damaged our ffp situation to have sold them for a low fee and had to pay up their contracts to the difference of what we owed them and what another team would pay them. Add in the excellent workplace that exists here and some players are content to not play than take a financial hit. 
your comments re contacts etc are probably valid too

the buck has to stop somewhere but i also think it’s a little more complex than we understand financially. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

Without doubt Rudkin carries a proportion of the blame/responsibility, he is a senior executive at the club, however he will be working within an agreed financial framework and structure which has been signed off, he will not have been making decisions without some level of governance, sign off or pre-approval.
 

Our current plight and the restrictions we have placed ourselves in are a result of collective decisions taken over the last 4/5 years to roll the dice and gamble on achieving champions league football. The weight of accountability sits with a number of senior execs/managers not just at the door of Rudkin. 
 

What we are unlikely to ever find out, is who was the catalyst in moving us down a different path following our FA Cup success and  moving away from the established model. Did the owner and board get giddy and excited by the success, did Rodgers use it as an opportunity to exert some pressure or a mix of them both? 

The real acid test moving forward for Rudkin, Whelan and Top is have learnt from the mistakes made and have we used this season in the Championship to reset and negotiate lower base wages with promotion based incentives, bonus and wage increases.

 

In relation to the academy, Maresca has actually bailed Rudkin out big time, whether the relegation has helped or hiring a manager who isn’t afraid to promote academy prospects but the fact that as many as 7 academy graduates have been involved this season and 4 of those have been given their competitive LCFC debuts this season, probably takes the heat of the DoF in that respect. 
 

The next 2 years are going to be massive and it wlll be interesting to see how the club and Rudkin operate once the decks have been cleared, personally I think it’s time for Rudkin to move out of the role and look for somebody new with a fresh outlook, ideas and network, however as @Ric Flair says I honestly cannot see a change happening as long as Top owns the club unless Rudkin leaves of his own accord. 

[Ric Flair]

14 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Shock horror the Rudkin criticism commences as we get jitters when we don't have players incoming.

 

This isn't football manager, we have a hardcore group of players that are tough to get rid of, a big squad etc. We are also 10 pts clear of 3rd, why the sudden panic - had we won at the weekend it's unlikely there would be any comments. I don't think its' complacency to say we won't go up, we need a max of 10 more wins. Enzo should get this team up with the current squad we have an reevaluate in the summer. 

 

Rudkin isn't without blame, but he had a stellar summer window by all accounts. Can't wait for the transfer window to shut tbh.

 

 

Is it any surprise the criticism starts when our manager confesses he only found out two weeks ago about the financial position. His direct line is to Rudkin. We've been here before.

 

This isn't even about whether he's failed in his role as a DOF in the aspects of recruitment for sensible fees and wages. This appears to be either a lack of basic communication or being economical with the truth.

 

It would be beggars belief that the footballing gods have gone against us twice in 2 years on unplanned financial compliance that has meant the goal posts are moved.

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

The ones we wanted out were on higher wages than most of those at other clubs (probably rudkin’s fault) and it would have actually damaged our ffp situation to have sold them for a low fee and had to pay up their contracts to the difference of what we owed them and what another team would pay them. Add in the excellent workplace that exists here and some players are content to not play than take a financial hit. 
your comments re contacts etc are probably valid too

the buck has to stop somewhere but i also think it’s a little more complex than we understand financially. 

This is exactly the issue.  We were not in a position to sell players at a significant loss, and the combination of higher wages and high fees makes it essentially better to keep them on board even if they are not playing.

[Stadt]

Even if our mismanagement is due to FFP concerns Rudkin has to carry some of the burden for that. Our average wage was circa £84k pw at one stage (even including bonuses and whatever else it was unsustainable). He's a bad negotiator e.g the Kristiansen fee, the sums received for Maddison and Barnes were at the low end,  we paid inflated wages and it takes so long to sign players.

 

We're only good on the pitch atm, we need a refresh at CEO and DoF level but Top won't do it because those two are so embedded with KP.

[Ric Flair]

35 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

This is exactly the issue.  We were not in a position to sell players at a significant loss, and the combination of higher wages and high fees makes it essentially better to keep them on board even if they are not playing.

Which in itself is absolutely farcical. You're in a position that managers actively want players gone, they would leave if they could but its unlikely they will.

 

This is why I've repeatedly called for better financial flexibility. We're never going to get every transfer right but you need to have a mechanism that tries to prevent being snookered if it doesn't pay off.

 

We've had the double whammy of most of our purchases prior to this season in the £15-30m bracket on 5 year deals on salaries north of £70k a week. Most of these players doubling or tripling their salaries too. Not so sure these signings were anymore successful than when we took a few risks on talented but unproven players for modest fees either.

 

I'd like to see us redefine our recruitment strategy, only pay more than £10-15m for a player with exceptional potential. Wage structure should be performance based in that players aren't starting on salaries near to those who've achieved success with us. But contracts increase with the players contribution, it usually becomes quite clear within a season whether a player is going to be a success or not.

 

If this prevents us signing certain players because we now no longer pay over and above what our rivals do then so be it. Likewise if we need to completely overhaul our recruitment network to a model that works exclusively on value for money with huge upscale. 

 

 

 

 

[honeybradger]

16 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Exactly. People seem to thing Rudkin can just make these players go. What club wants to pay for some of the shit we've got.

We have had offers for the likes of Soumare in the past and turned them down. Think there were offers for Praet a few seasons ago as well.

[ealingfox]

11 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

People are saying that it’s harder than it might look, so let’s have a look a couple of other clubs who have to be careful around FFP and what they managed to get done this summer…

 

Southampton’s player sales for a fee:

 

Ward-Prowse (West Ham)

Tella (Bauer Leverkusen)

Djenepo (Standard Liege)

Nlandulu (Bolton)

Chauke (Burton Albion)

Orsic (Trabzonspor)

Diallo (Al-Duhail)

Livramento (Newcastle)

Salisu (Monaco)

Lavia (Chelsea)

Olaigbe (Cercle Brugge)

Bycroft (Swindon Town)

 

12 players shifted for a fee. Not all superstars that were cherry-picked. Many that will have been on decent wages and who were brought in for significant fees. Sold to all corners of the globe and all

levels of the English football pyramid. 
 

Now let’s look at Everton:

 

Price (Standard Liege)

Nkounkou (Saint Etienne)

Kean (Juventus)

Simms (Coventry)

Samuels-Smith (Chelsea)

Cannon (Leicester)

Iwobi (Fulham)

Gray (Al-Ettifaq)

 

8 players sold for a fee. Again, sold around Europe and lower down the English pyramid. A nice fee in there from the Saudi gold rush to boot.

 

Now let’s look at ourselves…

 

We sold 5 (Maddison, Barnes, Castagne, Hirst and Odunze) for a fee. Three out of five I’d have been able to find a buyer for myself. Four out of five were sold to clubs in the English pyramid.

 

So what is it about Leicester City that means we struggle to sell where other clubs don’t? How come

we are unable to do business on the continent or in the Middle East? Why can other clubs shift players they don’t want, or need, for a fee, whereas we can only sell our coveted assets or release players on free transfers?

 

Those of you who say it’s not like Football Manager are right. It requires a little black book of contacts. It requires a network. It requires favours from old friends and proactivity to get out and make connections before clubs even realise they have a need for a player.

 

Is Mr Rudkin doing that? Did he build those agent and club connections when he was running the academy? Was he out in the market making things happen during the Thailand PR tour this summer or sat next to Top at functions and meaningless games like some sort of glorified Executive Assistant?

 

You might want to cut him some slack. But until I’m told different than it’s his remit and his job to get players out of the door in a beneficial manner, I’ll continue to point the finger and demand a little more for the good

of the club.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for doing the legwork and proving the point. Sadly as usual I suspect we'll be told that our Director of Football can't be held responsible for directing the club's football operations. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

There is nothing wrong with the sell to buy approach. We know better than most that a ridiculously large points gap means nothing until its over. Being careful is good sometimes. Our wage bill in this league must be huge. 

 

The issue I have is the apparent communication issue. Enzo is building us here. We need to be telling him (or anyone else) of what is/is not available before the 1st week in Jan. That I do have a problem with. 

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

Even if our mismanagement is due to FFP concerns Rudkin has to carry some of the burden for that. Our average wage was circa £84k pw at one stage (even including bonuses and whatever else it was unsustainable). He's a bad negotiator e.g the Kristiansen fee, the sums received for Maddison and Barnes were at the low end,  we paid inflated wages and it takes so long to sign players.

 

We're only good on the pitch atm, we need a refresh at CEO and DoF level but Top won't do it because those two are so embedded with KP.

I am pretty sure we sold Maddison for a smaller fee to get the income in the 22/23 FFP window; he was sold in June, in a similar way Forest should have sold Johnson early but held out for a larger fee.

 

As for Barnes, he was sold in July so I assume we had to bring in money to be able to kick-start our own business, so let him go cheaper to get it done early.

 

Like you, I can't see Top making a change. 

 

[Stadt]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I am pretty sure we sold Maddison for a smaller fee to get the income in the 22/23 FFP window; he was sold in June, in a similar way Forest should have sold Johnson early but held out for a larger fee.

 

As for Barnes, he was sold in July so I assume we had to bring in money to be able to kick-start our own business, so let him go cheaper to get it done early.

 

Like you, I can't see Top making a change. 

 

Newcastle bought Livramento for a similar price to Barnes, we just don't negotiate well - attributing it to FFP is good cover for the club.

 

Even in other non-sporting organisations as they grow, people are often out of the depth as the environment develops. King Power's COO or FD 15 years ago probably isn't the same one now, yet at Leicester none of the key personnel ever leave or get sacked behind the scenes. It's pretty stagnant and we've completely coincidentally I'm sure - been on the wane for years.

 

Top is seemingly quite hands off owner, he watches ages but he doesn't;t appear to be involved in much of the day to day. Consequently, it's absolutely pivotal the CEO and DoF do a great job given massive losses and the worst PL relegation ever, it's not the case.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Is it any surprise the criticism starts when our manager confesses he only found out two weeks ago about the financial position. His direct line is to Rudkin. We've been here before.

 

This isn't even about whether he's failed in his role as a DOF in the aspects of recruitment for sensible fees and wages. This appears to be either a lack of basic communication or being economical with the truth.

 

It would be beggars belief that the footballing gods have gone against us twice in 2 years on unplanned financial compliance that has meant the goal posts are moved.

 

 

He’s too busy buying horse feed for KPs fleet of stallions.

Edited 16 January by Wasyls Pec Deck

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

5 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Newcastle bought Livramento for a similar price to Barnes, we just don't negotiate well - attributing it to FFP is good cover for the club.

 

Even in other non-sporting organisations as they grow, people are often out of the depth as the environment develops. King Power's COO or FD 15 years ago probably isn't the same one now, yet at Leicester none of the key personnel ever leave or get sacked behind the scenes. It's pretty stagnant and we've completely coincidentally I'm sure - been on the wane for years.

 

Top is seemingly quite hands off owner, he watches ages but he doesn't;t appear to be involved in much of the day to day. Consequently, it's absolutely pivotal the CEO and DoF do a great job given massive losses and the worst PL relegation ever, it's not the case.

We also have a lot of players that have **** all and have minimal resale value. Take Praet as an example. Our problem is also that one wants our players. Some of the players listed in this thread from other clubs are young, have potential and significant resale value. A lot of ours don’t. We ditched the model of buying potential, and I’ve read that Rodgers was driving that as he thought it would bring more immediate success. And look what happened.

[Ric Flair]

12 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

He’s too busy buying horse for KPs fleet of stallions.

Don't even get me started on effectively 4 full time positions that he holds across LCFC, King Power and OH Leuven.

[Stadt]

59 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

We also have a lot of players that have **** all and have minimal resale value. Take Praet as an example. Our problem is also that one wants our players. Some of the players listed in this thread from other clubs are young, have potential and significant resale value. A lot of ours don’t. We ditched the model of buying potential, and I’ve read that Rodgers was driving that as he thought it would bring more immediate success. And look what happened.

From the Percy articles last year it was Rudkin that gave Rodgers carte blanche, whichever way you slice it, he's a serious problem. It's reductive to say it's all him as Top and Whelan are his superiors but as the literal director of football responsible for negotiating transfers and contracts - he should veto signings like Ward, Vestergaard, Praet when they were never going to be starters, represented a big outlay and long contracts with unsustainable wages.

 

DoFs have agency (or should have), it's like he's just a functionary, a rubber stamp, rather than the strategic vision behind the footballing operations. Given he supposedly didn't even interview Maresca we have serious issues behind the scenes. 

 

If Rudkin is key to KP's horse racing he's far too close to Top, the DoF should be an independent voice rather than a lackey. 

Edited 16 January by Stadt

[Mickyblueeyes]

36 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Don't even get me started on effectively 4 full time positions that he holds across LCFC, King Power and OH Leuven.

But it makes no sense right. I mean, its not uncommon in any season job to have a capable, highly experienced deputy. Rudkin takes an ernomous amount of flack. Why dont we have one who does face the questions, media etc. With Rudkin overseeing. 

 

Deputy DOF Wes Morgan or Deputy DOF Rob Huth - both have a nice ring to it. 

[Stadt]

4 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

But it makes no sense right. I mean, its not uncommon in any season job to have a capable, highly experienced deputy. Rudkin takes an ernomous amount of flack. Why dont we have one who does face the questions, media etc. With Rudkin overseeing. 

 

Deputy DOF Wes Morgan or Deputy DOF Rob Huth - both have a nice ring to it. 

Huth has completed a course in sport directorship or something along those lines. I can't remember who said it but in a podcast I heard somebody in the game refer to loans manager role as a great pathway to being a DoF too. David Weir did it at Brighton.

[Ric Flair]

19 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

But it makes no sense right. I mean, its not uncommon in any season job to have a capable, highly experienced deputy. Rudkin takes an ernomous amount of flack. Why dont we have one who does face the questions, media etc. With Rudkin overseeing. 

 

Deputy DOF Wes Morgan or Deputy DOF Rob Huth - both have a nice ring to it. 

Yeah I've said the same, he's not going anywhere. He's a massively respected and trusted disciple of Top and his family. So have him heading up all those positions but have someone closer to it that can do each role justice. A sporting director is needed under Rudkin at Leicester.