Is Jesse Marsch better than Rodgers ?

[KP Fox]

46 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

Genuine question, and not a dig. Anybody who was dead against MON when the rumours got me excited... Is this better or worse for you? 

 

I feel like I'm in mourning and can barely bring myself to read about it. 

 

My expectations are now somehow even lower than they were from immediately after the match. 

 

I've always believed aside from the big 6, a club like ours is only one bad appointment away from relegation, but somehow we managed it with a manager who was actually successful (on the face of it) but this is next level. 

 

I'll support the team, as I always have done but somehow the disconnect has got even stronger. 

 

Premier league experience is a must, even if you were really shit at it. 

 

Pep never had Premier league  experience before he went to Man City. Pearson or MON never had Premier league experience and both of them never got us relegated. 

[StanSP]

50 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

Genuine question, and not a dig. Anybody who was dead against MON when the rumours got me excited... Is this better or worse for you? 

Better because MON has been detached from all kinds of management for what, 6 or 7 years? 

 

I don't see enough in the O'Neill appointment compared to having someone who knows the Premier League in a much more recent way. 

 

For me, it didn't make sense to get O'Neill in. I wouldn't want his legacy with us tarnished if the gamble didn't work. 

[ramaiya2]

Is Jesse Marsch better then BR? NO A big FAT NO

 

We are screwed, we are playing championship football next season and will need to re-build and Jesse Marsch will F*** that up

 

I have excepted it and am coming to terms with it.

[Shaqq]

At least the games will be fast paced and entertaining, considering the dire fvcking football I’ve been watching from us the last 18 months or more - that’s all I need.

 

Edited 9 April 2023 by Shaqq

[st albans fox]

Once we’re mathematically down then that’s that 

until then, those who are posting that they don’t care and they’d rather we go down than make this appointment can basically F off 

 

Seriously don't bother posting on here - you’re not needed if you actually feel this way - and I’ve no problem whatsoever if you block/mute me - infact I’d be happy 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

1 hour ago, SheppyFox said:

What consolation is this if we go down, it’s kids stuff! “I ain’t chanting Cus muh players dunt love muh club”. It’s bigger than that.

Not bigger than that though is it?  do you cheer and applaud when you go to a restaurant who's chef can't be bothered and serves you shite food? did you clap and sing like a moron when Pleat was in charge or Taylor?  the only way we have of voicing our displeasure at the way the team and the club are letting us down is the atmosphere it's the only one they take notice of. Clapping and cheering when it's no longer appropriate is like Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Not bigger than that though is it?  do you cheer and applaud when you go to a restaurant who's chef can't be bothered and serves you shite food? did you clap and sing like a moron when Pleat was in charge or Taylor?  the only way we have of voicing our displeasure at the way the team and the club are letting us down is the atmosphere it's the only one they take notice of. Clapping and cheering when it's no longer appropriate is like Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

Equating a restaurant with your football club?

 

Really?!

 

World of difference and if you don't understand that then you do understand football.

[The_77]

15 hours ago, RothleyFox said:

If the rumour is believed ,  it is expected that Jesse Marsche will soon be named as the next LCFC manager

 

Please someone explain how he is a better manager than Rodgers !

It doesn’t matter if Marsch is better than Rodgers. Rodgers was checked out all season and definitely taking us down, and Marsch might be one of the few who’ll take this job in our current predicament. 

[Beachyboy]

1 hour ago, josh_baskin said:

I’m past caring completely I just want the team to play like a team normally does in a relegation scrap like Everton have been since Dyche came in, trying to win regardless of if it looks ugly.

I don't think this team is capable of playing for a 1-0 or digging in for points like he has them doing.Last three games prove you make your own luck if you are positive. We need to be on the front foot, except we will concede goals like we have all season and just try and score even more like than the opposition. Think Holloway at Blackpool, Keegan at Newcastle, if we are going down let's go down in style.

Edited 9 April 2023 by Beachyboy

[Trav Le Bleu]

The way people have just accepted we're going to get relegated regardless of 8 games remaining reminds me of Vichy France, but even they had a resistance.

[FLINTHAMFC]

I'll just answer the question. No he isn't.

[deep blue]

29 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Better because MON has been detached from all kinds of management for what, 6 or 7 years? 

 

I don't see enough in the O'Neill appointment compared to having someone who knows the Premier League in a much more recent way. 

 

For me, it didn't make sense to get O'Neill in. I wouldn't want his legacy with us tarnished if the gamble didn't work. 

I'm not strongly in favour of O'Neill because he's been out of active management for some time, but he does tick the box in that he's pragmatic,  plays to the players' strengths, gets them believing in themselves, gets them well up for the game, instils fight and togetherness.   These are the things we need for the remaining games of this season.

 

Is there any feeling that Marsch can provide those qualities?

In all events, for me it's a crazy decision  to appoint for the long term now as the requirements are completely different between the needs for the remaining games of this season and the siruation we find ourselves in next season (whatever division we are in).

[deep blue]

25 minutes ago, Shaqq said:

At least the games will be fast paced and entertaining, considering the dire fvcking football I’ve been watching from us the last 18 months or more - that’s all I need.

 

But are our players fit enough for fast-paced games?

[Kilworthfox]

Nobody could have been worse than Rodgers and Watching Rodgersball. 

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, deep blue said:

But are our players fit enough for fast-paced games?

Maybe he’ll play the ones who are 

 

newcastle are third with Jacob Murphy playing wide right and Dan burn at left back 

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

sometimes a manager may have had failure elsewhere but his methods and philosophy strike a chord with a different group of players and profile of player, that is what I am hoping for. 
 

Exactly this..

 

Sometimes managers and clubs just fit. I think Marsch has an underdog vibe that might suit us

[gw_leics772]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Better because MON has been detached from all kinds of management for what, 6 or 7 years? 

 

I don't see enough in the O'Neill appointment compared to having someone who knows the Premier League in a much more recent way. 

 

For me, it didn't make sense to get O'Neill in. I wouldn't want his legacy with us tarnished if the gamble didn't work. 

I envy you now, it ain't working for me. 

[gw_leics772]

On the plus side for Mardch, his Leeds side never had half the shite runs we had. Oh to have decisive owners... 

Never thought I'd ever be jealous of Leeds in that regard. 😭

Edited 9 April 2023 by gw_leics772

[Clarkey123]

4 hours ago, Buzzell said:

Understandable it’s been shit all season, longer than that in fact but why not give the next person a chance to sort out the shit that the last manager left?

 

Out of curiosity, who was you expecting to come in?

 

I would’ve tried to get someone like O’Neill in until the end of the season and go from there

Also would rather have had Viera than Marsch…

[Revieist]

3 hours ago, football not soccer said:

Marsch will be an absolutely dreadful appointment for you. Don't be under any illusions he's completely out of his depth in the premier league. At Leeds he played a dreadful ,narrow,chaotic type of football with the full backs isolated with no one playing in wide positions in front of them, coupled with a high press this left us extremely vulnerable to counter attacks. 

The strongest part of or squad is our wingers. We have 4 very good wingers in Gnonto, Harrison, Sinisterra and Summerville yet he refused to play with width. 

You're down I'm afraid and Marsch won't last a year. Still as Marsch is fond of saying "The goal is in the middle "😁

Well, to play Devil's advocate: Jesse did play with width, and his concept of narrow play didn't just mean playing in the centre/through the middle.  It's an example of how Leeds supporters didn't have a good understanding of the Marsch system and this contributed to his downfall.  In a system where you compress play, especially on the flanks, players like Gnonto and Harrison can thrive. 

 

Just to be clear: I never liked the Marsch system, but here I am being objective about it.  It could have worked.  He had bad luck: Injuries to Bamford and Sinisterra.  Harrison underperformed overall, maybe due to shortcomings of others.  Summerville came alive but he is young.  Kristensen and Aaronson, who were ideal players for his system, underperformed and struggled to adapt to the Premier League.

 

On the subject of wingers, Alf Ramsay's Wingless Wonders won the 1966 World Cup, and while it wasn't exactly the same system as Jesse's, some of the principles were the same:

 

- a narrow formation

 

- direct play through the middle

 

- attacking midfielders instructed to play as inverted forwards

 

There's also the problem of nomenclature narrowing how people perceive a player's utility.  Gnonto, Aaronson, Harrison, Sinisterra and Summerville are general attacking midfield players.  They don't just have to play on the wing.  Gnonto and Harrison would probably do well in more central positions.  Harrison has thrived recently under Gracia in a roaming role, not just playing down the flanks.

 

True, Jesse's system could leave the Leeds full backs exposed, but really that wasn't because nobody was playing wide in front of them, it was because the defensive line was too high against some teams.  What happened is that some of the cruder teams that had pacy wingers just hoofed it over our defensive line, usually down the flanks, and this led to us conceding silly 'counter attacking' goals.  Jesse should have adapted and played a bit deeper sometimes.  Yet at the same time, Jesse wanted opposition teams to hoof it, as more often than not it brought us back into possession - it's swings and roundabouts. 

 

Having better full backs may solve some of it.  If Leicester have fast-paced full backs, Marsch's system may work that bit better.  At times, Jesse may have been better deploying a back three alongside a double pivot (especially after Wöber and McKennie came on board at Leeds).  It seemed that most of the time he wasn't tactically responsive/flexible, either to the opposition or the players available to him, and I think this lack of pragmatism was the root of his undoing at Leeds.  It could be that he just didn't understand the demands of the Premier League.  He bought Kristensen, a Danish international right back, but he has struggled.  Aaronson was another one who was supposed to be ideal for the Marsch system, but he has struggled.  Both talented players who will probably come good under Gracia, but at the same time, you get the impression that they would do better in the Austrian league, which is where Jesse thrived.  Was Jesse buying for Austria, forgetting to consider the demands of English top flight football?  

Edited 9 April 2023 by Revieist

[football not soccer]

44 minutes ago, Revieist said:

Well, to play Devil's advocate: Jesse did play with width, and his concept of narrow play didn't just mean playing in the centre/through the middle.  It's an example of how Leeds supporters didn't have a good understanding of the Marsch system and this contributed to his downfall.  In a system where you compress play, especially on the flanks, players like Gnonto and Harrison can thrive. 

 

Just to be clear: I never liked the Marsch system, but here I am being objective about it.  It could have worked.  He had bad luck: Injuries to Bamford and Sinisterra.  Harrison underperformed overall, maybe due to shortcomings of others.  Summerville came alive but he is young.  Kristensen and Aaronson, who were ideal players for his system, underperformed and struggled to adapt to the Premier League.

 

On the subject of wingers, Alf Ramsay's Wingless Wonders won the 1966 World Cup, and while it wasn't exactly the same system as Jesse's, some of the principles were the same:

 

- a narrow formation

 

- direct play through the middle

 

- attacking midfielders instructed to play as inverted forwards

 

There's also the problem of nomenclature narrowing how people perceive a player's utility.  Gnonto, Aaronson, Harrison, Sinisterra and Summerville are general attacking midfield players.  They don't just have to play on the wing.  Gnonto and Harrison would probably do well in more central positions.  Harrison has thrived recently under Gracia in a roaming role, not just playing down the flanks.

 

True, Jesse's system could leave the Leeds full backs exposed, but really that wasn't because nobody was playing wide in front of them, it was because the defensive line was too high against some teams.  What happened is that some of the cruder teams that had pacy wingers just hoofed it over our defensive line, usually down the flanks, and this led to us conceding silly 'counter attacking' goals.  Jesse should have adapted and played a bit deeper sometimes.  Yet at the same time, Jesse wanted opposition teams to hoof it, as more often than not it brought us back into possession - it's swings and roundabouts. 

 

Having better full backs may solve some of it.  If Leicester have fast-paced full backs, Marsch's system may work that bit better.  At times, Jesse may have been better deploying a back three alongside a double pivot (especially after Wöber and McKennie came on board at Leeds).  It seemed that most of the time he wasn't tactically responsive/flexible, either to the opposition or the players available to him, and I think this lack of pragmatism was the root of his undoing at Leeds.  It could be that he just didn't understand the demands of the Premier League.  He bought Kristensen, a Danish international right back, but he has struggled.  Aaronson was another one who was supposed to be ideal for the Marsch system, but he has struggled.  Both talented players who will probably come good under Gracia, but at the same time, you get the impression that they would do better in the Austrian league, which is where Jesse thrived.  Was Jesse buying for Austria, forgetting to consider the demands of English top flight football?  

You can play devils advocate all you want but he didn't set the team up to play with width. 

Suggesting you have a better understanding ot Marschs tactics than other Leeds supporters is nonsense and arrogance on your part .

I'd rather chew my own nipples off than watch a team playing Marschs adult kick and rush. 

Awful, naive out of his depth and that's before you get to the cod psychology and Ted Lasso speak bullshit. 

[Chrysalis]

17 hours ago, RothleyFox said:

If the rumour is believed ,  it is expected that Jesse Marsche will soon be named as the next LCFC manager

 

Please someone explain how he is a better manager than Rodgers !

Talk about been judgemental, he hasnt started yet.

 

I do think though he should be in the stands for the next game, make his first game a winnable one.

 

I remember people judging Claudio before he started, and then what happened.

Edited 9 April 2023 by Chrysalis

[Skid_1884]

5 minutes ago, football not soccer said:

You can play devils advocate all you want but he didn't set the team up to play with width. 

Suggesting you have a better understanding ot Marschs tactics than other Leeds supporters is nonsense and arrogance on your part .

I'd rather chew my own nipples off than watch a team playing Marschs adult kick and rush. 

Awful, naive out of his depth and that's before you get to the cod psychology and Ted Lasso speak bullshit. 

Haven’t you got a Leeds forum to debate this between yourselves, plus your currently playing at the moment if you hadn’t noticed.

[Revieist]

15 minutes ago, football not soccer said:

You can play devils advocate all you want but he didn't set the team up to play with width. 

Suggesting you have a better understanding ot Marschs tactics than other Leeds supporters is nonsense and arrogance on your part .

I'd rather chew my own nipples off than watch a team playing Marschs adult kick and rush. 

Awful, naive out of his depth and that's before you get to the cod psychology and Ted Lasso speak bullshit. 

I merely say that Leeds supporters do tend to misunderstand Marsch's tactics or have an incomplete understanding of those tactics.  Whether I am being arrogant or not seems irrelevant.  I could easily call you arrogant and unpleasant in the way you express your opinion of Marsch.  It's best to just stick to the topic and avoid getting personal.

 

I didn't like Marsch's football, but rightly or wrongly, he was hounded out of his job.  I'm saying nowt more. 

[wokinghamfox]

2 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

The way people have just accepted we're going to get relegated regardless of 8 games remaining reminds me of Vichy France, but even they had a resistance.

I think the acceptance is because we looked so bad yesterday in fact so much so that our capability of getting the victories we need just isn't there. Maybe there is a formula but based on our last six results and current performances I can't see anything changing in the last eight games.