Why are we the only relegation battlers that are playing like we don't care ?

[STEVIE B]

7 hours ago, sm1 said:

The unity in the squad has gone, there's too many cliques formed at Seagrave. The Belgium lads have their clique, the young English players, KDH, Barnes, Maddison & Thomas have theres. The African lads, Ndidi, Nacho & Amartey have theres. Seagrave is such a huge place, the intimacy of Belvior Drive has been lost, so has the team spirit. 

Is this your belief, or actual fact ? 
Rodgers has a lot to answer for, but if the latter of what you say is true, he should’ve addressed it, as should the more senior squad members & staff. Ridiculous situation. 

[Alf Bentley]

10 hours ago, sm1 said:

The unity in the squad has gone, there's too many cliques formed at Seagrave. The Belgium lads have their clique, the young English players, KDH, Barnes, Maddison & Thomas have theres. The African lads, Ndidi, Nacho & Amartey have theres. Seagrave is such a huge place, the intimacy of Belvior Drive has been lost, so has the team spirit. 

 

Yep, at Seagrave it's disturbing how the Belgian lads are always sat together in the Luxury Lounge, chomping waffles and swilling Stella. Amazing, too, how the African lads always stick together, bound by coming from the same continent despite originating from different countries, speaking different languages and following different religions. It was well meant when the English clique suggested that they all celebrate St. George's Day by setting up a maypole at Seagrave and dancing around it together, but the gesture might have been a bit clumsy.

 

Just wondering how you're aware of the clique problem? Are you the one who helps Shaky carry the balls out to the training pitches or the one who stacks the weights in the gym? As you've probably guessed, I'm the bloke who washes the dishes in the Players' Luncheon Bistro. I seriously reckon the Belgian lads should put less Nutella on their waffles - might give Youri a bit more midfield mobility and help Timmy sprint to cover back-post crosses. 

 

In other words, er..... 

 

I have no inside knowledge - and there may or may not be truth in the unsourced allegations of cliques. But based on observation of our play over the last 1-2 years and of our former manager's media comments, I'm inclined to agree with Simon Jordan. Namely that it's not that the players don't care, it's that they're "bricking it": i.e. a lack of character in the squad massively exacerbated by having Rodgers' drip-drip media insinuations that half of them aren't good enough and needed replacing. That doesn't absolve the players from criticism for failing to consistently display positive physical commitment during matches, but it's hard to feel self-belief and to get on the front foot if there's nobody galvanising the group and your former manager, for his own motives, has spent months publicly suggesting that you're not good enough. Even players who feel no bond with LCFC will naturally want to perform well to boost their reputations and careers, but a loss of individual/squad self-belief can undermine that.

 

Here's hoping that the players and interim management team are doing work on morale and self-belief this week to give us a chance of an unlikely result on Monday. If they show such self-belief on the pitch, it'll improve performance and they'll get the crowd's vocal backing, I'm sure.... 

[sacreblueits442]

5 hours ago, jayfox26 said:

Why are we unfit? Has Rodgers ran the players into the ground? Possibly. Lack of actually caring so not giving 100% on the training ground? Possibly. Training ground environment too comfortable with the golf course, swimming pool, beds for sleeping, sauna etc? Possibly. 

...only if they were using these facilities instead of conditioning!!!

 The nice environment is not the issue,  but the program laid out for the players (even to the point of individual training) should be the norm.

[sacreblueits442]

On 10/05/2023 at 19:12, Kitchandro said:

A lot of people talking about the contracts, but it isn’t that,

 

It’s the character of the players. Unlike under Pearson, we are not buying players with a strong, professional mentality.

 

The bad attitude has been here for several seasons now, hence why we threw away two top 4 finishes and lose almost every crunch game.

...would those characters be outspoken and assertive in certain situations!!!

  If there were one type of player that we would not have brought in under Rodgers it would be players with those traits.

  Pearson's selection was, do they have what we are looking for, do they have the right mentality to play for us and do they fit into the squad we are creating. 

  I have said it before, he (Rodgers) cannot handle players who have a strong personality.

Edited 12 May 2023 by sacreblueits442
Spelling error.

[MANFACE]

Easy £70/80 K per week, and summer hols on the horizon.

[Costello]

Easy to go down the "they don't care" route when things are not going well, but as documented above, it's a lack of confidence across the board which filters all over the pitch. Fulham was a classic example, we (the fans anyway) were thinking this could be an opportunity, we've put 3 games unbeaten together, we're scoring goals and Fulham are missing players and don't have a lot to play for, except pride maybe. So when you lose a goal like we did, keeper error, heads go down, where's the leadership to steady the ship and dig in ? Answer: it's not there. The blame thing comes in, finger pointing and you're on the back foot. When your confidence is that fragile, all it needs is a goal conceded to trigger the same reactions as before, panic on the ball, fear of making a mistake, blame others and you're on the slippery slope. That's where we are, I'm not sure Pep or anyone else can instill different actions into a set of players that are pretty much running scared. The errors, the penalty misses, giving the ball away, it all contributes to a squad that just doesn't think it can get out of the brown stuff. Everton at least have a manager that looks like he cares, would kill someone if they said the wrong thing and some players with the balls to stand up and fight. 

Edited 12 May 2023 by Costello

[Beachyboy]

1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...would those characters be outspoken and assertive in certain situations!!!

  If there were one type of player that we would not have brought in under Rodgers it would be players with those traits.

  Pearson's selection was, do they have what we are looking for, do they have the right mentality to play for us and do they fit into the squad we are creating. 

  I have said it before, he (Rodgers) cannot handle players who have a strong personality.

Rogers won't ever get his "big club job" then if he can't handle strong personalities. Most of the big name players who have a winning mentality, have a bit of an ego. A Paul Scholes type is the exception rather than the rule.

Edited 12 May 2023 by Beachyboy

[Beachyboy]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Yep, at Seagrave it's disturbing how the Belgian lads are always sat together in the Luxury Lounge, chomping waffles and swilling Stella. Amazing, too, how the African lads always stick together, bound by coming from the same continent despite originating from different countries, speaking different languages and following different religions. It was well meant when the English clique suggested that they all celebrate St. George's Day by setting up a maypole at Seagrave and dancing around it together, but the gesture might have been a bit clumsy.

 

Just wondering how you're aware of the clique problem? Are you the one who helps Shaky carry the balls out to the training pitches or the one who stacks the weights in the gym? As you've probably guessed, I'm the bloke who washes the dishes in the Players' Luncheon Bistro. I seriously reckon the Belgian lads should put less Nutella on their waffles - might give Youri a bit more midfield mobility and help Timmy sprint to cover back-post crosses. 

 

In other words, er..... 

 

I have no inside knowledge - and there may or may not be truth in the unsourced allegations of cliques. But based on observation of our play over the last 1-2 years and of our former manager's media comments, I'm inclined to agree with Simon Jordan. Namely that it's not that the players don't care, it's that they're "bricking it": i.e. a lack of character in the squad massively exacerbated by having Rodgers' drip-drip media insinuations that half of them aren't good enough and needed replacing. That doesn't absolve the players from criticism for failing to consistently display positive physical commitment during matches, but it's hard to feel self-belief and to get on the front foot if there's nobody galvanising the group and your former manager, for his own motives, has spent months publicly suggesting that you're not good enough. Even players who feel no bond with LCFC will naturally want to perform well to boost their reputations and careers, but a loss of individual/squad self-belief can undermine that.

 

Here's hoping that the players and interim management team are doing work on morale and self-belief this week to give us a chance of an unlikely result on Monday. If they show such self-belief on the pitch, it'll improve performance and they'll get the crowd's vocal backing, I'm sure.... 

You and sacreblueits have made me think if you bring in players that won't answer back to you, if the performances start to deteriorate and the managers calls you not good enough, these type of players are unlikely to puff out there chest and think I will prove him wrong.

[Dan LCFC]

On 10/05/2023 at 20:12, Le Renard said:

Too many players of the same ilk, Dean Smith seems to think they are a good bunch of lads, and that is where the problem lies.  Kasper wound people up and made people uncomfortable, telling people straight if they weren't pulling their weight, maybe Albrighton could be like that in his own way, maybe he isn't vocal like Kasper, but he probably voiced his opinion.  Rodgers slowly got rid of these strong characters and seemed to sideline Vardy, so we all believed that he was finished.  Any organisation needs dissenting voices and a mixture of characters, but we seem to have a squad created in the image of Rodgers, with a bloody leadership group.  Sometimes you just need some home truths told to your face, not a bloody group of leaders to discuss it!!

Rodgers definitely just wanted lap dogs and it shows. It's why it always eventually goes wrong for him. He has to be the top dog and he just isn't quite that character.

[Guest Col city fan]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Rodgers definitely just wanted lap dogs and it shows. It's why it always eventually goes wrong for him. He has to be the top dog and he just isn't quite that character.

He’s done that at every club he’s managed at. I remember when he ‘fell out’ with Gerrard at Liverpool. 
Gerrard was on his way out, but apparently how Rodgers tried to oust him didn’t go down well at the club and the scousers.

He tried to do this with Vardy of course, but Vardy’s influence at the club was/is so great that he struggled to do it. 
Rodgers comes across as a slime-ball imo. Possibly the most I’ve disliked a Leicester manager in years, despite having won the cup with him.

[inckley fox]

8 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Yep, at Seagrave it's disturbing how the Belgian lads are always sat together in the Luxury Lounge, chomping waffles and swilling Stella. Amazing, too, how the African lads always stick together, bound by coming from the same continent despite originating from different countries, speaking different languages and following different religions. It was well meant when the English clique suggested that they all celebrate St. George's Day by setting up a maypole at Seagrave and dancing around it together, but the gesture might have been a bit clumsy.

 

Just wondering how you're aware of the clique problem? Are you the one who helps Shaky carry the balls out to the training pitches or the one who stacks the weights in the gym? As you've probably guessed, I'm the bloke who washes the dishes in the Players' Luncheon Bistro. I seriously reckon the Belgian lads should put less Nutella on their waffles - might give Youri a bit more midfield mobility and help Timmy sprint to cover back-post crosses. 

 

In other words, er..... 

 

I have no inside knowledge - and there may or may not be truth in the unsourced allegations of cliques. But based on observation of our play over the last 1-2 years and of our former manager's media comments, I'm inclined to agree with Simon Jordan. Namely that it's not that the players don't care, it's that they're "bricking it": i.e. a lack of character in the squad massively exacerbated by having Rodgers' drip-drip media insinuations that half of them aren't good enough and needed replacing. That doesn't absolve the players from criticism for failing to consistently display positive physical commitment during matches, but it's hard to feel self-belief and to get on the front foot if there's nobody galvanising the group and your former manager, for his own motives, has spent months publicly suggesting that you're not good enough. Even players who feel no bond with LCFC will naturally want to perform well to boost their reputations and careers, but a loss of individual/squad self-belief can undermine that.

 

Here's hoping that the players and interim management team are doing work on morale and self-belief this week to give us a chance of an unlikely result on Monday. If they show such self-belief on the pitch, it'll improve performance and they'll get the crowd's vocal backing, I'm sure.... 

I don't know, Alf. I think it's 'tough love' time, rather than arms round shoulders, though I totally agree with your diagnosis. I just believe that they haven't understood, for some time, what it entails in terms of application to come out on top in a battle, and that they need a very blunt reminder that, no, they're not sweating blood without just rewards (which seems to be their take). But I could be wrong.

[sm1]

11 hours ago, STEVIE B said:

Is this your belief, or actual fact ? 
Rodgers has a lot to answer for, but if the latter of what you say is true, he should’ve addressed it, as should the more senior squad members & staff. Ridiculous situation. 

I'm no ITK, but a few months ago I heard/read Brendan saying that the team wasn't spending as much time together since the move to Seagrave. I remember thinking that's a strange thing for a manager to comment on, unless he saw that as a problem.

[st albans fox]

7 hours ago, Costello said:

Easy to go down the "they don't care" route when things are not going well, but as documented above, it's a lack of confidence across the board which filters all over the pitch. Fulham was a classic example, we (the fans anyway) were thinking this could be an opportunity, we've put 3 games unbeaten together, we're scoring goals and Fulham are missing players and don't have a lot to play for, except pride maybe. So when you lose a goal like we did, keeper error, heads go down, where's the leadership to steady the ship and dig in ? Answer: it's not there. The blame thing comes in, finger pointing and you're on the back foot. When your confidence is that fragile, all it needs is a goal conceded to trigger the same reactions as before, panic on the ball, fear of making a mistake, blame others and you're on the slippery slope. That's where we are, I'm not sure Pep or anyone else can instill different actions into a set of players that are pretty much running scared. The errors, the penalty misses, giving the ball away, it all contributes to a squad that just doesn't think it can get out of the brown stuff. Everton at least have a manager that looks like he cares, would kill someone if they said the wrong thing and some players with the balls to stand up and fight. 

I agree with the confidence aspect but we’ve been coming back from conceding the first goal since Brendan left in every game except Bournemouth and Man City.  So I can’t accept the first goal had such a huge impact - we were massively second best from the kick off 

 

monday reminded me of Bournemouth- like the players had been told they just needed to turn up to win. No drive - no intensity - embarrassing 

[FearlessFox2016]

On 10/05/2023 at 12:51, marcymarc666 said:

I can't put put my finger on this one. You look at the like of Forest and Leeds and even if they're losing they're playing like their lives depend on it. Where as we look like we're taking a stroll in the park. 

Your thoughts....

It starts at the top ( excuse the pun) , but Top and the board have failed to invest in the squad and manager. Dreaming of investments state of the Art training facilities, hotels, etc.. covid put a spanner in the works as they made massive loss of earnings. The Premier League lives off money and if you don't have it.. game over. We have been on a downward spiral and where finish will show how much damage to the club the owners have really achieved. Maybe the owners will admit it.. maybe not. I dont blame BR or the team who have been trying to keep us a float. If you want to be in the Prem you need a team full of ambition and money talks.

[Always Next Year]

There  playing like they don’t care because they don’t, to many players out of contract plus the ones expecting to leave so who gives a shit. 
If the club don’t short things out we will be in league ONE before we know it.

[drofmor55]

On 12/05/2023 at 11:21, MANFACE said:

Easy £70/80 K per week, and summer hols on the horizon.

agree...apart from Iheanacho i dont think there is any player who who would be gutted if we went down...within a few days of us getting relegated probably a dozen or so will be in Dubai or Las Vegas....with few exceptions ( Kane,Kasper,Ward Prowse) footballers have no loyalty to clubs..and in return they know they are just commodities as far as the clubs are concerned 

[iancognito]

On 10/05/2023 at 13:07, whoareyaaa said:

3 players are off in the summer however Soy has put a proper shift in the same can’t be said for Youri or Maddison imo. The midfield is non existent.

 

plus there have been way to many individual errors no team togetherness or leaders 

Everton have NINE out of contract and their club is a dogs dinner. Didn't stop them playing the game of their lives against Brighton.

[erlee]

0ur stall is set up wrong

 

 

[Corky]

On 11/05/2023 at 18:02, Stinky said:

You'll probably see the same thread on the other sides' forums. If Everton lose with a whimper this weekend questions will be asked of them again.

Agreed. Leeds have managed 2 points in seven games, Southampton have lost 13 home games this season, Everton fans have been going for the players most of the season. I doubt they are all saying how much fight they are showing and how admirable it is.

 

Everyone down there is seriously crap.

[trooky]

I don't believe any professional sportsman doesn't care, we just don't have any leaders or natural fighters.

 

They've been described as decent lads and that's the problem, we just have too many nice lads and not enough shithouses that are willing to fight and make it difficult for the opposition especially in midfield.

 

Leeds and Forest players are also seriously motivated by the atmosphere in the stadium because their fans really get behind their teams.

Edited 14 May 2023 by trooky

[jonathan_ross]

 

17 hours ago, iancognito said:

Everton have NINE out of contract and their club is a dogs dinner. Didn't stop them playing the game of their lives against Brighton.

Playing the game of your life, hard work and determination probably doesn’t improve your individual stats as a player which is probably all our players care about, individual stats.

[sacreblueits442]

8 minutes ago, jonathan_ross said:

 

Playing the game of your life, hard work and determination probably doesn’t improve your individual stats as a player which is probably all our players care about, individual stats.

...purely speculative, but I  believe they cannot function with the pressure on these games!!!

  We need to play the game, not the occasion.

[jim5000]

On 12/05/2023 at 11:31, Costello said:

Easy to go down the "they don't care" route when things are not going well, but as documented above, it's a lack of confidence across the board which filters all over the pitch. Fulham was a classic example, we (the fans anyway) were thinking this could be an opportunity, we've put 3 games unbeaten together, we're scoring goals and Fulham are missing players and don't have a lot to play for, except pride maybe. So when you lose a goal like we did, keeper error, heads go down, where's the leadership to steady the ship and dig in ? Answer: it's not there. The blame thing comes in, finger pointing and you're on the back foot. When your confidence is that fragile, all it needs is a goal conceded to trigger the same reactions as before, panic on the ball, fear of making a mistake, blame others and you're on the slippery slope. That's where we are, I'm not sure Pep or anyone else can instill different actions into a set of players that are pretty much running scared. The errors, the penalty misses, giving the ball away, it all contributes to a squad that just doesn't think it can get out of the brown stuff. Everton at least have a manager that looks like he cares, would kill someone if they said the wrong thing and some players with the balls to stand up and fight. 

We don’t have any leadership within the squad. The captain’s armband has been passed around this season like a whore at a stag-do.

 

Our club captain has been injured since August, and we loaned the club vice-captain out in January.

 

We had three separate players wear the armband vs Fulham, with the first two subbed off for poor performance.

Edited 14 May 2023 by jim5000

[Corky]

17 hours ago, iancognito said:

Everton have NINE out of contract and their club is a dogs dinner. Didn't stop them playing the game of their lives against Brighton.

That is slightly misleading. Two of those are reserve keepers, two have an option to buy and two others are currently injured. Only Doucoure and Mina played in that game.

[Chrysalis]

On 11/05/2023 at 23:34, sm1 said:

The unity in the squad has gone, there's too many cliques formed at Seagrave. The Belgium lads have their clique, the young English players, KDH, Barnes, Maddison & Thomas have theres. The African lads, Ndidi, Nacho & Amartey have theres. Seagrave is such a huge place, the intimacy of Belvior Drive has been lost, so has the team spirit. 

Deserves more likes.