Manager for the Championship rebuild - who do you want?

[StanSP]

Just heard a good quote on the cricket. 

 

Culture eats strategy for breakfast 

 

The culture was clearly fractured, or became totally non-existent, under Rodgers. And it was allowed to fester higher up. I just hope Maresca can re-invigorate things on the pitch, but this appointment doesn't hide the problems further up the club chain. Maybe things working on the pitch may change and influence a positive and happier culture across the club, but it shouldn't be that way round. 

[bmt]

51 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Until your scenario bares fruit and we're awful. Then you won't. 

To be fair it was a bit of a throwaway comment that I didn't expect to be analysed, but I'm excited.

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

We need some players first! But he won't have a year. We need to be in the top 4 by Christmas and within touching distance of automatic promotion. If not, we likely head back to the Parkerville 

.. I  can't see that, far too expensive to terminate a contract and the either having to buy a manager out of one!!!

  I suspect the safety element would be Smith, as he would still be without a club, waiting for the call from Rudkin.

[Spudulike]

It's reported the club sought advice from Cambiasso but he can't have been the only one. Kasper? 

[StanSP]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

We need some players first! But he won't have a year. We need to be in the top 4 by Christmas and within touching distance of automatic promotion. If not, we likely head back to the Parkerville 

I don't think we should panic if we're not in these positions though. 

[mozartfox]

I wonder if the players will be forced to clear their dirty plates from their meal tables??

[inckley fox]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

@Babylon @weller54

 

I found this stat quite interesting. I know both of you are baffled by the risky nature of this appointment, but let's hope Rudkin and Top have finally made a decent decision between them.

 

 

 

Of course, there's every chance that he's a fine manager. We have no real way of knowing, but he could well be what we need.

 

I do get a bit annoyed by stats like this which are offered out of context, to misleadingly give weight to an idea. That stat also tells us that 66% of promoted managers over the past six years have had prior managerial experience in the UK.

 

And when you look at the managers he's talking about - Frank, Bielsa, Kompany, Farke, Munoz, Parker, Nuno (I make it seven, so someone will have to correct me!) - you can see quite a bit of managerial experience. Parker had cut his teeth by coming down with Fulham. Munoz only took over half-way through the season, with Watford already up there by that point. Farke, Bielsa, Nuno and Frank were all highly experienced beforehand in other leagues.

 

So only two or three of those names (and therefore three of the last 18 promoted managers) - Kompany and, arguably, Parker and Munoz - had as little experience as Maresca. And so far, of those three, it remains to be seen with Kompany whether a single one of them can last a year upon promotion without getting fired or relegated. 

 

If you look at a list of all the promoted managers, the vast majority were experienced and there were a lot of prior promotions among them.

 

It's also interesting to look at how managers in that league tend to do when it's their first serious gig in football. If you look at the managers of  clubs relegated to L1 over that time period, you see that half of the interim and permanent managers were in their first role in the UK. But again you need context, because several of them had gained quite a bit of experience and success with that club previously, and of course some of those clubs only got relegated because of administration.

 

The bigger question is what do sides that bounce straight back up do? Two stuck with their managers (neither of which had managed in the UK before their relegation), two brought in a new boss who'd never managed at this level. I only make it one that brought in a new, UK-experienced manager. So maybe that's the stat which has caught the board's attention, because it'd logically make Smith and Maresca the main candidates.

Edited 16 June 2023 by inckley fox

[Mickyblueeyes]

12 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

Do you ven own a glass?

I broke the glass last season. Currently borrowing one from Sunderland but it stinks of piss. Hoping to purchase a new one next season. 

[justfoxes]

The most important thing about this news is it real or not Has he been seen in Morrisons by anyone yet ?😉

[trabuch]

I'm quite excited about this. But then again I am easily pleased.

[Pliskin]

“WE’RE GONNA PISS THE LEAGUE WE’RE GONNA PISS THE LEAGUE, I KNOW YOU DON’T BELIEVE US I KNOW YOU DON’T BELIEVE US I KNOW YOU DON’T BELIEVEEEEE USSSSSSSS, BUT WE’RE GONNA PISS THE LEAGUE”.

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, Ely fox said:

Hope one of the first things he does is sack Mike Stowell. 

...that would make him a poor judge...!!!

  If you remember when Kasper came here, Leeds could not get rid quick enough.

  The problems mentioned over and over are his inability to come off his line and kicking.

 When he first came here he came off his line at every opportunity and dealt with crosses by punching the ball with his fist. That later became him staying on his line due to us going to a "zonal marking" system, where coming for the ball disrupts the defenders. His kicking to the side is a deliberate ploy for territory and a lot of teams use that system.  If the ball goes directly out of play we would have gained ground going forward, and can then exert pressure by pressing the throw in.

  We all know what Kasper has brought to this club, every major trophy we have won, has been won with him in goal, but Leeds felt he was a liability. Stowell tutored him, so you have to give him credit for that. Iversen another great shot stopper. Danny Ward has been a dissapointment, but out of all three he was the one not gaining game time for some years, it is no wonder that he is so far off  as a quality keeper.

[Tuna]

Where's that announcement at?

[whoareyaaa]

Just now, Tuna said:

Where's that announcement at?

3pm

[Scotch]

35 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Yet a net spend of 4m the following season and they finished fourth 👀

....Using predominantly the squad built by Maresca...

Edited 16 June 2023 by Scotch

[Les-TA-Jon]

38 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Just heard a good quote on the cricket. 

 

Culture eats strategy for breakfast 

 

The culture was clearly fractured, or became totally non-existent, under Rodgers. And it was allowed to fester higher up. I just hope Maresca can re-invigorate things on the pitch, but this appointment doesn't hide the problems further up the club chain. Maybe things working on the pitch may change and influence a positive and happier culture across the club, but it shouldn't be that way round. 

in addition: "Hard work beats talent, if talent hardly works" 

[21st Century Fox]

On the face of it, Maresca could be seen as a risky appointment, but thinking about it, how many managers actually have that much experience of galvanising half a squad of new players.

 

Whoever comes in will be working with a group of players with little connection and familiarity with each other anyway.

[Ryy]

10 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Where's that announcement at?

5pm

[ALC Fox]

54 minutes ago, Scotch said:

The argument about his performance at Parma is shallow. 

 

Let's add some perspective. They lost about 20 players which he had to replace with £30m. 

 

20 new players  many of whom were loans, free transfers and cheap buys. Being integrated into a new team with new coaches and a manager in his first ever job. 

 

He was then expected to blend all those players and have them performing within 1/3 of the season. 

 

Even then, when he was sacked, they were still within touching distance of playoff spots before the team had gelled. 

 

The similarities between his job there and this one are not lost on me but it doesn't take away from the fact that he didn't necessarily fail but rather he wasn't given the opportunity to finish what he was trying to do. 

Also worth comparing the job to what Steve Cooper did at Forest last season. Huge overhaul of players, was backed even in the tough times and kept them up with several games to spare.

 

Maresca will obviously have a completely different remit here but it's another example of where the manager should be given time to turn our fortunes around while shaping a squad in his image.

[Cropwellfox]

43 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Just heard a good quote on the cricket. 

 

Culture eats strategy for breakfast 

 

The culture was clearly fractured, or became totally non-existent, under Rodgers. And it was allowed to fester higher up. I just hope Maresca can re-invigorate things on the pitch, but this appointment doesn't hide the problems further up the club chain. Maybe things working on the pitch may change and influence a positive and happier culture across the club, but it shouldn't be that way round. 

This. 
The energy around an organisation is often under-estimated and the stagnation leading to this last seasons woeful decision making off and on the pitch showed a really clear sense of low and negative energy which found its way through to the stadium and by the looks of things other teams than the first team. With both Brian Little and  Nige joining, there was a really noticeable and positive shift in the energy around the club. Hiring a maybe more experienced manager this time wouldn’t have created this same shift. If Enzo is as successful in harnessing the renewed energy as BL and Nige were then we are going to fall back in love with the club and team. Fingers firmly crossed 

[jonthefox]

25 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Where's that announcement at?

6PM 

[wurmer]

1 hour ago, Pete52 said:

How? 

 

2019 Rodgers came in and we were looking to break into top 4, we finished 5th in his first full season 

 

2020 we looked to build on that with promising talent like Fofana and Castagne coming in and won the FA Cup and finished 5th again with the same target of achieving top 4. 

 

2021 Still signing young up and coming talent in Soumare and Daka to again try to breach top 4. Injuries and the financial effects of COVID begin to kill us, on top of contract mistakes and Bertrand & Vestergaard signings. 

 

2022 It all went to shit and we didn't have a clue 

 

So pretty much, 12 months without a plan. 

 

Sorry if that comes across strong but just trying to summarise it all!

Interest from the owners has been waning since the chairman passed.

 

Been on the gradual wind-down since then until where we are now.

 

[FrankieADZ]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

You'd rather be a mess in the championship than in the permier league... you must have been giddy with excitement at the thought of relegation. 

id rather have someone outside the box than Parker or the usual ones,

as the fulham and bournemouth fans really enjoyed having him there.....

and prem isnt the be all and end all, its shit we went down, but looking how we've gone backwards the last 18months it could be good, as it will give the club as a whole a kick up the arse....i hope

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

Maybe they did   I think there was as much chance of him picking up 11 points than Smith.... who knows.

...we were losing game after game, we lost to Southampton twice under Rodgers, he didn't care, there was an end game and it was worth millions to him!!!

  Forcing him to come to the table to negotiate a lesser amount is what I believed happened, it seemed Khun Top was prepared to take it to the wire, but we failed to get the necessary points in the end.

[OntarioFox]

15 minutes ago, 21st Century Fox said:

On the face of it, Maresca could be seen as a risky appointment, but thinking about it, how many managers actually have that much experience of galvanising half a squad of new players.

 

Whoever comes in will be working with a group of players with little connection and familiarity with each other anyway.

Bit of a tangent here, but I'm somewhat glad we do get to start from something approaching a clean slate. It's been utterly depressing seeing the mentality collapse over recent years, not least given the rumours of cliques within the dressing room.

 

We were so, so lucky to have the culture we had in our club, right from Pearson through to at least mid way through Puel's tenure, that you could tell the squad was together and pulling in the same direction. That's completely gone now thanks to Rodgers for the most part and a new manager, with new faces that he trusts to be role models in the changing room, is the only way we can start to claw some of that back.

 

I don't think it's unprecedented. Pearson's second tenure and the pretty brutal approach he took to replacing Sven's overhyped shysters with the right characters (Morgan for Mills being the best of the lot) is the sort of root and branch reform we need. Maresca needs to identify who the bad eggs are and sideline them. If it means handing captaincy to a new face, so be it. Worked out for Big Wes.