Newcastle 0-0 LCFC - Post-Match Thread

[Sampson]

17 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

Well if I need to tell you you’re likely not old enough to be on this forum. 

You realise the final is 10 days after our game right? I think they’d rather keep their players match sharp than give them a 3 week break before a final 

 

I’d be quite surprised if they play a weakened side 

Edited 24 May 2023 by Sampson

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Sampson said:

You realise the final is 10 days after our game right? I think they’d rather keep their players match sharp than give them a 3 week break before a final 

 

I’d be quite surprised if they play a weakened side 

They won't play a weakened side, but they'll likely use their full complement of subs. I'd expect some of their more important players to start coming off from early in the second half. 

The real question is how full-bloodied their players are likely to play given the risk of injury. We need to put in a few tackles early on and let them know we won't hold back. That might plant a few seeds of doubt in their players' minds and cause them to hold back a bit.

[Number 6]

22 minutes ago, BigGibbo said:

We can still win and go down. It was a must win in terms of keeping our fate in our own hands.

Sure. But there's no way we'd have been as defensive if we'd had to win to stay up.

[Number 6]

14 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

They won't play a weakened side, but they'll likely use their full complement of subs. I'd expect some of their more important players to start coming off from early in the second half. 

The real question is how full-bloodied their players are likely to play given the risk of injury. We need to put in a few tackles early on and let them know we won't hold back. That might plant a few seeds of doubt in their players' minds and cause them to hold back a bit.

I think that will be the biggest factor: maybe just not being 100% full bloodied into challenges and stuff with the final upcoming. I also wouldn't be surprised for some of the key players to play either the first 60 or last 30, and anyone with any slight niggle will surely just be rested. I don't think we'll be playing their U21s, but it is a slight advantage for us that they may have eyes on that final. Having said that, we've been awful and they still have more than enough quality to get something against us. It won't be an easy win.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

49 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

They won't play a weakened side, but they'll likely use their full complement of subs. I'd expect some of their more important players to start coming off from early in the second half. 

The real question is how full-bloodied their players are likely to play given the risk of injury. We need to put in a few tackles early on and let them know we won't hold back. That might plant a few seeds of doubt in their players' minds and cause them to hold back a bit.

I'm sure Rice and Soucek are having nightmares and waking up in a cold sweat at the prospect of going into a 50/50 with the likes of Maddison, Barnes and Mendy.

[BigGibbo]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

Sure. But there's no way we'd have been as defensive if we'd had to win to stay up.

We might have had to win to stay up. We won't know until this weekend if a point was enough.

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, BigGibbo said:

I know completely where you're coming from, but for me a must win game is something that you at least attempt to win regardless. 1 half chance from our right back doesn't equate to that.

 

Plenty of our players would walk into their team under normal circumstances (i.e. when playing to their mean average ability based on recent seasons), including 2 we started on the bench, the quality gap wasn't that far it's just our defence (and form) that's the shambles, which we played in favour of, meaning we played to our weakness rather than our strength. That is all.

...it was not a must win game, just a must not lose!!!

 Without that point a win for us meant that Everton only needed to draw their last game. We have forced them to win their last game. The state of mind of our team at the moment could not have coped with a full throttle approach. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

16 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

We have forced them to win their last game.

We haven't forced them to do anything...yet. There's a very real possibility that they can lose to Bournemouth and still stay up.

[BigGibbo]

42 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...it was not a must win game, just a must not lose!!!

 Without that point a win for us meant that Everton only needed to draw their last game. We have forced them to win their last game. The state of mind of our team at the moment could not have coped with a full throttle approach. 

If Everton win this weekend it was a must win game in retrospect. If we wanted control over our own fate going into the weekend it was a must win game regardless. I am in the latter camp.

[ClaphamFox]

36 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

We haven't forced them to do anything...yet. There's a very real possibility that they can lose to Bournemouth and still stay up.

It would always have been a risky strategy for Everton to play for a draw even if we'd lost at Newcastle. If Everton draw and Leeds beat Spurs 3-0 (not impossible given that Spurs have basically stopped playing), Leeds will go above them. That's too much of a risk. I don't think our draw at Newcastle will change Everton's approach. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

7 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It would always have been a risky strategy for Everton to play for a draw even if we'd lost at Newcastle. If Everton draw and Leeds beat Spurs 3-0 (not impossible given that Spurs have basically stopped playing), Leeds will go above them. That's too much of a risk. I don't think our draw at Newcastle will change Everton's approach. 

I don't know how they'll approach it tbqh. The point I was making is that technically they don't have to win. We have to win. Leeds have to win. They can stay up without winning. That may change at some point during the games on Sunday (we hope).

[ClaphamFox]

2 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

I don't know how they'll approach it tbqh. The point I was making is that technically they don't have to win. We have to win. Leeds have to win. They can stay up without winning. That may change at some point during the games on Sunday (we hope).

Yes, they can stay up without winning, but it would be a massive risk for them to settle for a draw. All it would take would be for us to take the lead in the last minute to relegate them. They'll be going for the win, which will mean they'll have to take risks if they don't go ahead early on.

[TheFish]

3 hours ago, BigGibbo said:

Yes and no.

 

Yes there are different ways to win and no it did not nearly work.

 

Statistically it almost certainly did not work and we were incredibly lucky to take anything from the game, although granted we could have achieved an even more unlikely event in the snatch and grab with our solitary chance at the end.

 

If, however, we had managed to hold on until 45/60 even 75 mins then applied much more pressure, that could have altered them odds, but we did not do that.

 

It may have been a pragmatic and intelligent approach to the game, but we didn't execute on the final part of it giving ourselves practically zero chance of winning a must win game. Essentially. 

It did though, you were one top class save away from all 3pts. Had you been torn open then you'd have every justification for saying going all out couldn't have been worse, but as it was you got an unlikely point away at a team going hell for leather, in front of a vociferous crowd, on their final home game of the season, with Champions League qualification on the line. 

 

If Smith had turned up at St James' in those circumstances and played a more attacking style of football, we'd have likely done the same to you as we've done against Brighton, Southampton, Tottenham, Man Utd, Wolves, Villa and Brentford. It was the teams who camped in against us that got the most joy (bar Liverpool and Arsenal). And although your first shot on target didn't come until the 90th minute, once you introduced Maddison, Barnes and Daka and you were much more of a threat, that's also when we started to get more joy getting in behind you. Personally think we should have started ASM and Isak who're better at unpicking a low-block, then brought on Wilson with 30 minutes to go. But what the **** do I know?

 

If you'd lost on Monday you'd have needed to beat West Ham and both Leeds and Everton to fail to win on the final day. As it stands you just need Everton to slip up. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 minute ago, TheFish said:

It did though, you were one top class save away from all 3pts. Had you been torn open then you'd have every justification for saying going all out couldn't have been worse, but as it was you got an unlikely point away at a team going hell for leather, in front of a vociferous crowd, on their final home game of the season, with Champions League qualification on the line. 

 

If Smith had turned up at St James' in those circumstances and played a more attacking style of football, we'd have likely done the same to you as we've done against Brighton, Southampton, Tottenham, Man Utd, Wolves, Villa and Brentford. It was the teams who camped in against us that got the most joy (bar Liverpool and Arsenal). And although your first shot on target didn't come until the 90th minute, once you introduced Maddison, Barnes and Daka and you were much more of a threat, that's also when we started to get more joy getting in behind you. Personally think we should have started ASM and Isak who're better at unpicking a low-block, then brought on Wilson with 30 minutes to go. But what the **** do I know?

 

If you'd lost on Monday you'd have needed to beat West Ham and both Leeds and Everton to fail to win on the final day. As it stands you just need Everton to slip up. 

I had no problem with the defensive set-up. But even with a defensive set-up you can look to exploit opportunities to counter. We didn't. We just hoofed it anywhere and everywhere, but mostly straight back to Newcastle. That's what disappointed me about our performance.

[ARM1968]

4 hours ago, Sampson said:

You realise the final is 10 days after our game right? I think they’d rather keep their players match sharp than give them a 3 week break before a final 

 

I’d be quite surprised if they play a weakened side 

Be prepared to be surprised then. Let’s see. Of course you might be right. 

[HybridFox]

Sods law Pope gets injured after we've played them

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 minute ago, HybridFox said:

Sods law Pope gets injured after we've played them

That one routine save we forced him into must've done him in.

[HybridFox]

1 minute ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

That one routine save we forced him into must've done him in.

Timmy the destroyer

[st albans fox]

 

11 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

They won't play a weakened side, but they'll likely use their full complement of subs. I'd expect some of their more important players to start coming off from early in the second half. 

The real question is how full-bloodied their players are likely to play given the risk of injury. We need to put in a few tackles early on and let them know we won't hold back. That might plant a few seeds of doubt in their players' minds and cause them to hold back a bit.

Can you remember the last time one of our players put in a full blooded tackle ? 

[deep blue]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

 

Can you remember the last time one of our players put in a full blooded tackle ? 

At a guess ... when Hamza last played  

[st albans fox]

8 hours ago, deep blue said:

At a guess ... when Hamza last played  

Depressing isn’t it …..

[shailen]

The point we got here could be crucial in us avoiding the drop and even though Newcastle hit the woodwork three times, twice it was due to errors from Iversen and Faes, so we did stifle their threat and that Castagne chance was huge. Imagine if that had gone in? 

[Supergray22]

6 minutes ago, shailen said:

The point we got here could be crucial in us avoiding the drop and even though Newcastle hit the woodwork three times, twice it was due to errors from Iversen and Faes, so we did stifle their threat and that Castagne chance was huge. Imagine if that had gone in? 

Or if Maddison had scored that penalty. Or a number of other missed chances during the course of the season. The majority of posters gave us no chance in this game and most were predicting us to get a hammering. The result was better than most expected albeit not one that keeps survival in our own hands. We go into the last game though with a chance of staying up. Win our game and Everton don’t win. COYB

[shailen]

12 minutes ago, Supergray22 said:

Or if Maddison had scored that penalty. Or a number of other missed chances during the course of the season. The majority of posters gave us no chance in this game and most were predicting us to get a hammering. The result was better than most expected albeit not one that keeps survival in our own hands. We go into the last game though with a chance of staying up. Win our game and Everton don’t win. COYB

There's so many moments in recent weeks:

 

Conceding last minute to lose to Villa and Palace

The Vardy and Tielemans goals ruled out against Leeds 

The Maddison missed penalty vs Everton

Even the chances we created against Man City 

 

We've not had the luck in recent weeks and we definitely got it against Newcastle. Here's to hoping it happens again against West Ham and if Everton win then fair play to them.

 

The jeopardy on them is incredible, as a draw would be enough to see off us and Leeds if we don't win. But do they risk losing by going for the win and Leeds win vs Spurs? I think that what's in our favour is that we know we have to win. 

 

 

[Sampson]

3 minutes ago, shailen said:

There's so many moments in recent weeks:

 

Conceding last minute to lose to Villa and Palace

The Vardy and Tielemans goals ruled out against Leeds 

The Maddison missed penalty vs Everton

Even the chances we created against Man City 

 

We've not had the luck in recent weeks and we definitely got it against Newcastle. Here's to hoping it happens again against West Ham and if Everton win then fair play to them.

 

The jeopardy on them is incredible, as a draw would be enough to see off us and Leeds if we don't win. But do they risk losing by going for the win and Leeds win vs Spurs? I think that what's in our favour is that we know we have to win. 

 

 

Everton and Leeds both outplayed us and Bamford and Calvert-Lewis both missed tap-ins into open goals from 2 yards out, let’s be honest. I’m sure on Everton and Leeds forums they are bemoaning the fact they got no luck in those games against us too.

 

Palace we absolutely battered us and deserved to lose to. How we weren’t 6-0 down at HT I’ll never know. It would’ve been daylight robbery had we got a point from that game 
 

I’m not really sure you can say we haven’t had the luck in recent weeks really. We’ve got quite a few results in games we were a clear second best.