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HankMarvin

Barnes

By HankMarvin, in Transfer Talk

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ALC Fox

ALC Fox

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Considering where we were 2 seasons ago, it's absolutely depressing that one of the best forwards from the academy in literally two decades in is being linked with West Ham and Villa.

 

Brendan Rodgers has a lot to answer for. How he (and the board) managed to screw up so monumentally from the position we were in is some achievement.

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old koppite

old koppite

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Posted
3 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

Would you? A more gifted footballer yes and more tactically astute but effectiveness; no.

 

Grealish isn't a passenger when not playing well unlike Barnes but 5 goals and 11 assists in 50 games (in an utterly dominant team) vs 13 goals and 3 assists in 40 games in a dire team shows how much more effective Barnes is. Now, that's an oversimplified way of looking at it and Grealish brings far more to the table but there's a difference between being a better footballer (i.e. technical ability) and being a better player. Grealish is marginally a better player but not by a lot at all. 

 

Would feel crazy to think that somebody would pay £60m for Barnes based on how easily he drifts out of games but then statistically, that's probably where he is. Again, different circumstances but Grealish went for £100m at the same age as Barnes with similar stats. So factoring in relegation, £40m would be great but crazily, also represents good value for the buyer.

I agree with most of your post, but laughed when you say Grealish is marginally a better player! Oh come off it. I don’t like Grealish, but no body can seriously believe he is a little bit better than our own Harvey.  He is much much stronger on the ball (understandably with those legs), has lots more tricks, far better passer, can take no end of kicking, draws lots of fouls, stays  in a game longer than Harvey, and has total belief in his own ability unlike HB.

I want Harvey to stay, but despite his stats he has been very poor in too games last season.

 

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Tuna

Tuna

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

Considering where we were 2 seasons ago, it's absolutely depressing that one of the best forwards from the academy in literally two decades in is being linked with West Ham and Villa.

 

Brendan Rodgers has a lot to answer for. How he (and the board) managed to screw up so monumentally from the position we were in is some achievement.

All they had to do was sack him a few weeks earlier than they did, that's it!

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Mickyblueeyes

Mickyblueeyes

Posted
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1 hour ago, ALC Fox said:

Considering where we were 2 seasons ago, it's absolutely depressing that one of the best forwards from the academy in literally two decades in is being linked with West Ham and Villa.

 

Brendan Rodgers has a lot to answer for. How he (and the board) managed to screw up so monumentally from the position we were in is some achievement.

As fans I think for the majority of us, it’s going to be very hard to get over what they’ve done. From board to Rodgers. And that is completely understandable.

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Gazza M

Gazza M

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He will be at Villa with Tielemans in my opinion. Hate we have become their feeder club after being superior for a while. Remember them starting 16/17 in the Championship the day we played United at Wembley in the charity shield as Champions of England. 

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Merging Cultures

Merging Cultures

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4 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

He will be at Villa with Tielemans in my opinion. Hate we have become their feeder club after being superior for a while. Remember them starting 16/17 in the Championship the day we played United at Wembley in the charity shield as Champions of England. 

We'll be back.

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Paninistickers

Paninistickers

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ALC Fox said:

Considering where we were 2 seasons ago, it's absolutely depressing that one of the best forwards from the academy in literally two decades in is being linked with West Ham and Villa.

 

Brendan Rodgers has a lot to answer for. How he (and the board) managed to screw up so monumentally from the position we were in is some achievement.

It's absolutely galling. We are BETTER than West Ham. Did the double ffs. Every bit a match for Villa. 

 

We have no choice but to suck it up. It's a good reminder that football can change very quickly. Seems 5 mins ago when we'd bum Villa alive for fun. 

 

We just gotta hope, this time next year, we'll be relishing a place back in the PL whilst West Ham or Wolves or whoever are facing oblivion 

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ALC Fox

ALC Fox

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Yeah, at times it can be interminable but can change very quickly.

 

At the beginning of last season, it looked Forest were facing a battle to avoid relegation back to the third tier and the prospect of being unsure whether they would ever return to the Premier League. Now they're preparing for their second season in the top flight since returning.

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dmayne7

dmayne7

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2 hours ago, old koppite said:

I agree with most of your post, but laughed when you say Grealish is marginally a better player! Oh come off it. I don’t like Grealish, but no body can seriously believe he is a little bit better than our own Harvey.  He is much much stronger on the ball (understandably with those legs), has lots more tricks, far better passer, can take no end of kicking, draws lots of fouls, stays  in a game longer than Harvey, and has total belief in his own ability unlike HB.

I want Harvey to stay, but despite his stats he has been very poor in too games last season.

 

But they can, that was my point. I don't think anyone can dismiss out of hand somebody's argument that Barnes is better than Grealish or vice versa.

 

By the same token to the above, Barnes is quicker, much better finisher, better weaker foot and an absolute god at the give an go in the box. Point is, he has superior stats (goals more impressive than assists) from fewer games, in a an awful team. If you just went off that, he's not even a bit better than Grealish, but a significantly better. Which is why nuance and looking beyond stats comes into it. But it's also down to roles in teams. Grealish is infinitely a better player in Man City's system than Barnes could ever be, no doubt. But equally, Barnes would most likely be miles better than Grealish could be in a Liverpool team for example because he can do things that Grealish can't. Whilst playing in the same position, their roles are quite different and that's why I don't think you can categorical say one is better than the other (even if I think most of us would accept that Grealish is currently the better player).

 

Barnes was crap for most of the season and still ended up with those numbers when we got relegated. Imagine what would happen if he found a manager who could polish those rough edges!

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lcfc043

lcfc043

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Posted (edited)

I view Barnes as a similar level to Jarrod Bowen, would be an excellent signing for West Ham 

 

They could do much worse than signing Kelechi too with their striker struggles 

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dsr-burnley

dsr-burnley

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8 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

Of West ham or Villa? So we know what colours he's going to be wearing next season at least.... When's Burnley coming in for him 😆

We'll take him at a hometown discount. 😉

 

Very few top players come from Burnley, for some reason. Jay Rodriguez and Oliver Norwood are the only other current ones so far as I know. 

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Lesta Legend

Lesta Legend

Posted
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2 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

We'll take him at a hometown discount. 😉

 

Very few top players come from Burnley, for some reason. Jay Rodriguez and Oliver Norwood are the only other current ones so far as I know. 

I'd use the term home town very loosely 😂

He's got that thick northern accent if ever I heard one 😗

 

Even discounted still out of your range I would if thought. 

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Viva

Viva

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, shailen said:

He got 13 goals in the league. That's one less than Saka. You can't lie with his numbers. He's an effective winger/inside forward. 

Saka got 12 assists. That’s one of the key differences from last season as apart from the goals, he offered next to nothing. 

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Koke

Koke

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2 minutes ago, Viva said:

Saka got 12 assists. That’s one of the key differences from last season as apart from the goals, he offered next to nothing. 

 

I'm not suggesting Barnes is as good as Saka but it does help who your team mates are. Ozil would've gotten 25 assists in 15/16 if he didn't have Giroud as a striker.

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Viva

Viva

Posted
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Just now, Koke said:

 

I'm not suggesting Barnes is as good as Saka but it does help who your team mates are. Ozil would've gotten 25 assists in 15/16 if he didn't have Giroud as a striker.

The team mates definitely help, but it’s not like Barnes was setting up lots of chances that were being missed. He just wasn’t creating enough good chances for the strikers. 

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SafewayFox

SafewayFox

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17 hours ago, honeybradger said:

I think if you compare Barnes to someone like Grealish then you begin to understand what makes a great player and why Barnes is no where near that bracket. Barnes has 13 goals and 2 assists and Grealish has 5 goals 7 assists in the league, so if you just go by statistics then Barnes is the superior player. If you watch the two of those play then anyone with a pair of eyes would say Grealish is better at football. 

 

In a side like ours who already have a weak back 4, having a winger who doesnt track back is a death sentence. Yes Barnes has scored 13 goals but if we had a winger like albrighton playing in Barnes's position we probably score 15 less goals as a team but end up on more points by grinding out wins with some clean sheets. 

 

Realistically 30 mil is a fair price for a player like Barnes who is great at scoring goals but weak at everything else, if we can get 40 mil for him we can replace him with someone who score less but holds onto the ball better and tracks back (someone who most would say is a worse player than Barnes) and stay at the same level or perhaps even improve as a team, with money to spend on other players. At the end of the day what we want to do is make ourselves into the best team possible, not a collection of the best players we can collect put into a starting XI, which is what we ended up with last season.

Was Grealish notorious for tracking back at Villa?

 

Aesthetically, Grealish looks better at football but the numbers don’t lie.

 

Barnes will be missed so badly and I’m very confident to predict that we’ll talk about him so differently this time next year. 

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shailen

shailen

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Posted
18 minutes ago, Viva said:

Saka got 12 assists. That’s one of the key differences from last season as apart from the goals, he offered next to nothing. 

I'm not comparing the two but scoring goals is the most valuable thing in football. If he played for Man City or Arsenal, he'd have better numbers and he's done that in a poor team this season. 

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Viva

Viva

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9 minutes ago, shailen said:

I'm not comparing the two but scoring goals is the most valuable thing in football. If he played for Man City or Arsenal, he'd have better numbers and he's done that in a poor team this season. 

He wouldn’t get in either of those teams, so wouldn’t have better numbers. 

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Leicesterpool

Leicesterpool

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2 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

If we have ambition... we should keep him

Its out of Leicesters hands. Dont help with euros next year if he wants to stand a chance of being part of that squad he needs to playing premier league football to be noticed by Southgate.

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