Barnes

[Dames]

1 hour ago, lcfc278 said:

All this Saudi money has given a lot of Newcastle fans a godawful amount of arrogance all of a sudden. A lot of numpties coming out of the woodwork.

Nope they've always been like this. One of the most entitled fanbases in the country. Its been amplified beyond belief this season though. 

[moore_94]

 

[LFox99]

5 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

 

Why the **** would Madders be the benchmark? Different quality of player with less left on his contract at a time where we wanted to balance our books and hadn't yet sold anyone.

[AKCJ]

16 hours ago, Finnegan said:

He'll go for 30-40, we'll sign Mavididi and Piroe, that'll pretty much be the end of the window unless we get another loan or two I reckon.

 

Mavididi, Vardy, Piroe,

KDH, Winks, Soumare,

Kristiansen, Doyle, Coady, Ricardo,

Steffen

 

Probably going to be the team vs Cov? Unless of course Doyle is the ingredient that means we shift to 3 atb.

 I think Doyle and Coady are confirmations of a 3 at the back. 

 

I'm not sure we'll sign Piroe. I think that involves selling at least one of Daka and Iheanacho. I think we're more likely to sign a genuine right winger.

 

Borges on loan from Man City would be a ludicrously good signing IMO.  Would also love to see us have a look at Jesurun Rak-Sakyi as well.

 

GK - Steffen (If he's fit)

RCB - Justin/Faes/Souttar

CB - Coady

LCB - Doyle

RWB - Ricardo

CM - Winks

CM - KDH/Soumare/Ndidi

LWB - Justin/Kristiansen/Thomas

RW - Rak-Sakyi/Borges

LW - Mavididi

ST - Vardy/Iheanacho/Daka

 

If we don't sign those wingers in time then I think it'll be more of a 3-5-2 with an extra midfielder and two strikers.

[don_danbury]

i'd take 60m plus add ons 

[Finnegan]

7 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

 I think Doyle and Coady are confirmations of a 3 at the back. 

 

I'm not sure we'll sign Piroe. I think that involves selling at least one of Daka and Iheanacho. I think we're more likely to sign a genuine right winger.

 

Borges on loan from Man City would be a ludicrously good signing IMO.  Would also love to see us have a look at Jesurun Rak-Sakyi as well.

 

GK - Steffen (If he's fit)

RCB - Justin/Faes/Souttar

CB - Coady

LCB - Doyle

RWB - Ricardo

CM - Winks

CM - KDH/Soumare/Ndidi

LWB - Justin/Kristiansen/Thomas

RW - Rak-Sakyi/Borges

LW - Mavididi

ST - Vardy/Iheanacho/Daka

 

If we don't sign those wingers in time then I think it'll be more of a 3-5-2 with an extra midfielder and two strikers.

 

I've said a couple of times I think 352 is the most financially intelligent way to "rebuild" the squad for now because we have more of the ingredients. I'm not against. 

 

But Maresca played 4141/433 at Parma and we played the first friendly of the season 433.

 

I know Doyle hasn't arrived yet but he could have played a youth player or someone out of position if the aim was just to get most of the team familiar with the shape. The fact he didn't was a signal of intent. 

 

Maybe we'll know more after Northampton. 

[FoxesWalk]

24 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

 

£80m then, Barnes has twice as much time left on his contract. 

[FoxinNotts]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've said a couple of times I think 352 is the most financially intelligent way to "rebuild" the squad for now because we have more of the ingredients. I'm not against. 

 

But Maresca played 4141/433 at Parma and we played the first friendly of the season 433.

 

I know Doyle hasn't arrived yet but he could have played a youth player or someone out of position if the aim was just to get most of the team familiar with the shape. The fact he didn't was a signal of intent. 

 

Maybe we'll know more after Northampton. 

I agree. I've even read some analysis someone posted on here, where it shows how his formation worked for the Man City u21s. He played 4-3-3 all season. I think he's just building a core of 4 centre back options. 

[AjcW]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've said a couple of times I think 352 is the most financially intelligent way to "rebuild" the squad for now because we have more of the ingredients. I'm not against. 

 

But Maresca played 4141/433 at Parma and we played the first friendly of the season 433.

 

I know Doyle hasn't arrived yet but he could have played a youth player or someone out of position if the aim was just to get most of the team familiar with the shape. The fact he didn't was a signal of intent. 

 

Maybe we'll know more after Northampton. 

The second half line up to me looked like it could be a 3-5-2, did anyone there confirm we were deffo 4-3-3 all game?

Just given that Kasey played second half it added another wing back into the mix.

[moore_94]

Just now, AjcW said:

The second half line up to me looked like it could be a 3-5-2, did anyone there confirm we were deffo 4-3-3 all game?

Just given that Kasey played second half it added another wing back into the mix.

It was a back 4 when we defended but shifted to a back 3 when we went forward

 

From Tanners article:

 

It was a conventional back four when Peterborough had possession, but Leicester mostly dominated the ball and an interesting feature was that instead of being inverted, Justin pulled very high and wide, almost like a wing-back, and the rest of the back four into a back three, with Choudhury playing slightly deeper to cover Justin, while Soumare played higher than he has ever done before for Leicester.

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, FoxinNotts said:

I agree. I've even read some analysis someone posted on here, where it shows how his formation worked for the Man City u21s. He played 4-3-3 all season. I think he's just building a core of 4 centre back options. 

 

I can see Doyle and Coady starting with Souttar and Vestergaard as options. Some hilarious lack of pace there given how high a line we're likely to play. 

 

But we're obviously struggling to move Vestergaard on and will probably find it easier to get a loan or move for Faes. 

 

One thing I do think people are being naive about is that they're still expecting loads of transfers and are forgetting that, despite how much we've lost, we've still got a LOT of dead wood. Transfers in are still only going to be about replacing outgoings unless we can start shifting the players we don't want and there's still no sign of that. 

 

We can't shift Choudhury, Vestergaard, Ndidi, Praet, Castagne, etc so we're going to have to consider using them. We can't afford to be in the Championship paying senior professional players if they aren't getting used. So now we've dropped down a level we'll probably use them. 

 

Winks and Coady were direct replacements for Tielemans and Evans and Doyle is an inexpensive loan. 

 

Piroe and Mavididi will be direct replacements for Iheanacho and Barnes of they happen and maybe another cheap loan will follow. But unless any of the "for sale" list start getting mopped up I really think we're about done tbh. 

[st albans fox]

Just now, moore_94 said:

It was a back 4 when we defended but shifted to a back 3 when we went forward

 

From Tanners article:

 

It was a conventional back four when Peterborough had possession, but Leicester mostly dominated the ball and an interesting feature was that instead of being inverted, Justin pulled very high and wide, almost like a wing-back, and the rest of the back four into a back three, with Choudhury playing slightly deeper to cover Justin, while Soumare played higher than he has ever done before for Leicester.

Is that v different to what Rodgers did with youri filling in that space whilst the right back pushed on high or sometimes  went walkabouts elsewhere ?

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Is that v different to what Rodgers did with youri filling in that space whilst the right back pushed on high or sometimes  went walkabouts elsewhere ?

Yeah we used to do it with Maddison at right wing coming inside, Castagne bombing forward and Tielemans trying to drop back and cover the right back area

 

But because of how slow Tielemans is and how also at times he just didn't do it, it left us exposed

 

We did it slightly different in the friendly in the first half with Ricardo moving into centre mid rather than into right wing like Justin but it still left us exposed

 

"It is still a work in progress, though, highlighted by the fact that Peterborough scored their first goal when Pereira was out of position — allowing Kwame Poku to beat goalkeeper Jakub Stolarczyk with a good finish."

[Ric Flair]

23 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've said a couple of times I think 352 is the most financially intelligent way to "rebuild" the squad for now because we have more of the ingredients. I'm not against. 

 

But Maresca played 4141/433 at Parma and we played the first friendly of the season 433.

 

I know Doyle hasn't arrived yet but he could have played a youth player or someone out of position if the aim was just to get most of the team familiar with the shape. The fact he didn't was a signal of intent. 

 

Maybe we'll know more after Northampton. 

Aside from the fact that Thomas and Kristiansen are not suited to being wing backs and Justin and Ricardo being put under more pressure to cover that flank on their own with their injury problems, I agree. My agreement is based on us owning 3 strikers and absolutely no creativity in midfield.

 

Not exactly the ingredients you'd be looking for but we here we are.

[Finnegan]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

Aside from the fact that Thomas and Kristiansen are not suited to being wing backs and Justin and Ricardo being put under more pressure to cover that flank on their own with their injury problems, I agree. My agreement is based on us owning 3 strikers and absolutely no creativity in midfield.

 

Not exactly the ingredients you'd be looking for but we here we are.

 

I'd be fairly happy with Kristiansen playing as a LWB at this level, "not suited" is a bit harsh. 

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

I'd be fairly happy with Kristiansen playing as a LWB at this level, "not suited" is a bit harsh. 

The more I watched him last season, I found his attacking output workmanlike and pacewise he's not exactly rapid. I think a lack of pace will be a common criticism of us once again this season without significant changes in the squad. 

[happy85]

23 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

£80m then, Barnes has twice as much time left on his contract. 

But Maddison twice the player Barnes is

[Finnegan]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

The more I watched him last season, I found his attacking output workmanlike and pacewise he's not exactly rapid. I think a lack of pace will be a common criticism of us once again this season without significant changes in the squad. 

 

He's not JJ but he's faster than Castagne who has had a pretty solid career as a wing back. He'd "do", we have bigger concerns I think. 

 

Lack of genuine quality at CM and still lacking a bit of pace and ball skills at CB. 

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

He's not JJ but he's faster than Castagne who has had a pretty solid career as a wing back. He'd "do", we have bigger concerns I think. 

 

Lack of genuine quality at CM and still lacking a bit of pace and ball skills at CB. 

I suppose what I'm also saying is what you're saying, without genuine creativity from midfield, you need to provide danger from other areas of the pitch in to attack and one obvious weapon is very fast and skilfull wing backs, not something any of ours necessarily could be attributed with. 

 

We need massive change to this squad, I'm getting worried. If the season started with the exact squad we have, I don't think the perceived quality of it would actually convey to results, we'd be exposed.

[Daggers]

17 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I really hope selling Barnes gives us more freedom to reduce our asking price for Praet, Castagne, Ndidi, Iheanacho, Faes and any other twat who doesn't want to be here any longer.

 

Just get them gone.

When I was 16 I played for Wicksteed Park Rovers. I used to have to cycle 12 miles just to get to the ground for training and games, and then the same home.

 

One training evening I rocked up and no one was there. No one had told me the Park had pulled permission for us to use the pitch and they'd gone elsewhere. To this day I still don't know what happened to my team.

 

Maybe the club would could consider a similar approach?

[st albans fox]

13 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Yeah we used to do it with Maddison at right wing coming inside, Castagne bombing forward and Tielemans trying to drop back and cover the right back area

 

But because of how slow Tielemans is and how also at times he just didn't do it, it left us exposed

 

We did it slightly different in the friendly in the first half with Ricardo moving into centre mid rather than into right wing like Justin but it still left us exposed

 

"It is still a work in progress, though, highlighted by the fact that Peterborough scored their first goal when Pereira was out of position — allowing Kwame Poku to beat goalkeeper Jakub Stolarczyk with a good finish."

the coach has to carry the players with him. i think one of rodger's problems was that the players stopped believing in him because he stopped believing in a lot of them. so they just went through the motions (both the coach and the players).  i just hope that the players don't feel they're being asked to do things that they aren't capable of  

[GLC]

13 minutes ago, Daggers said:

When I was 16 I played for Wicksteed Park Rovers. I used to have to cycle 12 miles just to get to the ground for training and games, and then the same home.

 

One training evening I rocked up and no one was there. No one had told me the Park had pulled permission for us to use the pitch and they'd gone elsewhere. To this day I still don't know what happened to my team.

 

Maybe the club would could consider a similar approach?

Just cover the training ground in a massive camo net, they’ll never be able to find it

[Gerard]

Years ago I used to play for Wicksteed Park Rovers and one lad who was about 16 cycled to training and matches from 12 miles away. He was an odd character and used to openly masterbate in the showers trying to get the rest of the team to join in a mutual masterbation sesh. We got sick of him and just told the park we were going to train elsewhere.

 

We never told him and he never showed up again, to this day I still don't know what happened to him.

 

 

 

Edited 12 July 2023 by Gerard

[TheFish]

4 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...that is a good rationale of the situation, but ASM is nowhere near the value anyone should be paying a £35m transfer fee!!!

  I would struggle to take him at £15m and that is before Newcastle gained their millions.

  ASM flatters to deceive, gets very little game time and has little end product.

 ASM -1115 mins. 1 goal contribution  last season

Barnes - 2718 mins 13 goal contribution last season.

  There seems to be a touch of arrogance that has come with your wealth.

 

I've posted his stats earlier. ASM is ridiculously good at beating men, providing a counter-attack outlet, and creating opportunities for shots from himself or others. Genuinely ridiculously good. His game time has been limited by injury and an evolution of how we play. Away from counterattack and more to a high-press. He lost his position due to injury then, because we were winning, couldn't get into the side ahead of players that were providing equal threat to the opponent and a defensive solidity that our game is based on. When we have the ball, Trippier bombs forward and Burn shifts over to forma  back 3, when that happens we need the left sided midfield and forward to act as wingbacks and pressing forwards respectively. ASM doesn't do that to a sufficiently high standard. He doesn't press intelligently as part of the group.

However, he's a very good player at causing havoc and creating chances; 

 

He's in the 96th percentile for assists per 90, 96 for xAG per 90, 91st for Shot creating Actions, 99th percentile for progressive carries and successful take-ons, 92nd for touches in the penalty box. 

By comparison Barnes is 3rd percentile for assists, 10 for xAG, 3rd for Shot creating actions, 58th for progressive carries, 15 for successful take ons, 62nd for touches in the penalty box. 

 

To be clear, higher percentile is better. 

 

Saying £15m is laughable, Chris Wood was sold for more than that for goodness sake. 

[TheFish]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes it is. The blokes scored about half the amount of goals as Barnes and less assists too. 

Barnes has scored more, he's a much better finisher than ASM. But ASM creates more than Barnes does. That's not a subjective opinion, it's based on the opta stats I posted.