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HankMarvin

Barnes

By HankMarvin, in Transfer Talk

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TheFish

TheFish

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

We brought Perez for 30m off these bellends. Barnes is 10 times the player Perez was. 

He is, still can't wrap my head around why you spent that much on Perez. He was decent for us as a number 10, but went missing in so many games and only really came alive in the final months of the season. Forgive me if I've got it wrong, but didn't you often play him on the flanks?

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moore_94

moore_94

Posted
Posted

Saint-Maximins injury history on its own means he should be nowhere near the same value as Barnes

 

He has missed nearly a full season of games in just the last 3 seasons

 

Only way Newcastle get a fee for Saint-Maximin that is similar to what they pay for Barnes is if he goes Saudi, no chance they get that kind of fee from anywhere else

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Nalis

Nalis

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Dames said:

Nope they've always been like this. One of the most entitled fanbases in the country. Its been amplified beyond belief this season though. 

I dont agree with this at all, most of the hope is done by the media as opposed to the fans. The vast majority of Geordies are grounded and barely any I am aware of thought they were entitled to champions league. Any under the age of 25 was just glad not to be in a relegation battle for a change to be honest. As mentioned before all clubs get the odd arsehole at the ground on social media to detract attention from the others.

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TheFish

TheFish

Posted
Posted
Just now, Bluearmyfox28 said:

I respect it.

Can you maybe clear something up? I'm being accused of being arrogant, right? I'm not wholly sure why? The reported fees for Barnes are around what I suggested, and align with Transfermarkt's valuation too. So, if we can use Transfermarkt as a very rough guide, then ASM is around the same valuation. I don't think anything there is arrogant. 

 

Now, if I'd said Barnes wasn't good enough for us, or that ASM was worth Maddison numbers, then, sure, call me arrogant. 

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, TheFish said:

Barnes has scored more, he's a much better finisher than ASM. But ASM creates more than Barnes does. That's not a subjective opinion, it's based on the opta stats I posted. 

ASM creates more and yet Barnes has more assists. Now either Barnes puts chances on a plate / had better finishers at Leicester than ASM has had when he was playing regularly at Newcastle or as has been seen quite frequently, ASM for all the fancy tricks and flicks is more likely to injure a fan in the crowd than do the business for him and his team mates.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TheFish said:

Can you maybe clear something up? I'm being accused of being arrogant, right? I'm not wholly sure why? The reported fees for Barnes are around what I suggested, and align with Transfermarkt's valuation too. So, if we can use Transfermarkt as a very rough guide, then ASM is around the same valuation. I don't think anything there is arrogant. 

 

Now, if I'd said Barnes wasn't good enough for us, or that ASM was worth Maddison numbers, then, sure, call me arrogant. 

 

Transfermarkt isn't now and never has been an accurate reflection of transfer values and if you think any club (outside of major outliers like Saudi Arabia) are going to bid 30m for Saint Max you are extremely delusional. 

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moore_94

moore_94

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TheFish said:

Can you maybe clear something up? I'm being accused of being arrogant, right? I'm not wholly sure why? The reported fees for Barnes are around what I suggested, and align with Transfermarkt's valuation too. So, if we can use Transfermarkt as a very rough guide, then ASM is around the same valuation. I don't think anything there is arrogant. 

 

Now, if I'd said Barnes wasn't good enough for us, or that ASM was worth Maddison numbers, then, sure, call me arrogant. 

Transfermarkt values are not something you should base player values off

 

Guimaraes only worth £60m?

 

Trent only worth £55m?

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TheFish

TheFish

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

ASM creates more and yet Barnes has more assists. Now either Barnes puts chances on a plate / had better finishers at Leicester than ASM has had when he was playing regularly at Newcastle or as has been seen quite frequently, ASM for all the fancy tricks and flicks is more likely to injure a fan in the crowd than do the business for him and his team mates.

Barnes puts chances on a plate and has played alongside better finishers than ASM has for the majority of his PL career. Where Barnes had Maddison and Vardy et al, ASM has had Shelvey and Joelinton.

 

Most of ASM's chances have fallen to poor finishers, or himself (equally poor).

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TheFish

TheFish

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Transfermarkt values are not something you should base player values off

 

Guimaraes only worth £60m?

 

Trent only worth £55m?

Just using them in line with the quoted figures in the press e.g. Press is saying around £35m, on here you're mostly talking about c£40m, right? Barnes is valued £32m, so not a million miles off. 

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DerbyshireFox

DerbyshireFox

Posted
Posted

If you put Barnes ability to cut inside and finish with Saint-Maximin’s skill set and ability to beat a man, then you’d have a £60-70m wide player. For me I’d be wanting £45m - granted that’s what they paid for Gordon but I don’t think he had two years left on his deal, and Everton had not been relegated. If we get the same as we got for Maddison, take it. We need to crack on with putting a side together that can get us up and actually wants to be here

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moore_94

moore_94

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TheFish said:

Just using them in line with the quoted figures in the press e.g. Press is saying around £35m, on here you're mostly talking about c£40m, right? Barnes is valued £32m, so not a million miles off. 

Barnes is €35m on Transfermarkt which would be around £30m

 

I would say that £10m off the upfront fee that we should be getting for him minimum, and not even including add ons for the total, is a fair bit off

Edited by moore_94
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TheFish

TheFish

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Barnes is €35m on Transfermarkt which would be around £30m

 

I would say that £10m off the upfront fee that we should be getting for him minimum, and not even including add ons for the total, is a fair bit off

Wait you're talking £40m + add ons? I thought it was £40m total. We bought Bruno for less than that. Botman too. I'm not being arrogant when I say they're better than Barnes is.

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moore_94

moore_94

Posted
Posted
Just now, TheFish said:

Wait you're talking £40m + add ons? I thought it was £40m total. We bought Bruno for less than that. Botman too. I'm not being arrogant when I say they're better than Barnes is.

Welcome to the world of English tax with some dirty saudi money tax thrown in.

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TheFish

TheFish

Posted
Posted
Just now, moore_94 said:

Welcome to the world of English tax with some dirty saudi money tax thrown in.

That tax doesn't seem to be happening a lot. We don't engage in bidding wars, we walk away from deals when the selling club values their player more than we do. 

 

Even with Chris Wood, who everyone thought we overpaid for, we got £20m of the £25m back. 

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Daggers

Daggers

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Gerard said:

Years ago I used to play for Wicksteed Park Rovers and one lad who was about 16 cycled to training and matches from 12 miles away. He was an odd character and used to openly masterbate in the showers trying to get the rest of the team to join in a mutual masterbation sesh. We got sick of him and just told the park we were going to train elsewhere.

 

We never told him and he never showed up again, to this day I still don't know what happened to him.

 

 

 

I never said I stopped cycling in to wank in the toilets.

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moore_94

moore_94

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TheFish said:

That tax doesn't seem to be happening a lot. We don't engage in bidding wars, we walk away from deals when the selling club values their player more than we do. 

 

Even with Chris Wood, who everyone thought we overpaid for, we got £20m of the £25m back. 

Except in the example you gave of Chris Wood - doesn't matter what you got back, you still overpaid for him in the first place

 

And whatever the ridiculous fee was that you paid for Gordon

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StriderHiryu

StriderHiryu

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TheFish said:

fbref does have it. It's in the complete scouting report; 

 

Harvey Barnes Scouting Report for Last 365 Days Men's Big 5 Leagues, UCL, UEL | FBref.com

Thank you!

 

Is it possible to use it without clicking on a specific player? For example, can you just look at the percentiles of a particular stat? I could see this being quite the rabbit hole to go down...

 

 

Look who came up at humber 3 when I was looking at players most similar to Barnes... @Ric Flair has infiltrated FB Ref!

 

YOumsnT.png

 

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TheFish

TheFish

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Except in the example you gave of Chris Wood - doesn't matter what you got back, you still overpaid for him in the first place

 

And whatever the ridiculous fee was that you paid for Gordon

£45m for a highly rated young English player who just collected player of the tournament in the U21s Euro winning campaign. Gordon slots in perfectly with how Eddie wants us to play; high pressing, good finisher, creative etc.

 

I thought it was pricey, but then I've watched him play. It could turn out a very fair price.

 

Edit - also at the time we were taking a double figure scoring striker off a direct rival in our survival bid.

Edited by TheFish
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TheFish

TheFish

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

Thank you!

 

Is it possible to use it without clicking on a specific player? For example, can you just look at the percentiles of a particular stat? I could see this being quite the rabbit hole to go down...

 

 

Look who came up at humber 3 when I was looking at players most similar to Barnes... @Ric Flair has infiltrated FB Ref!

 

YOumsnT.png

 

No, unfortunately you can't see the percentiles you have to use the players, but there's loads of people on twitter who've scraped the data and punched it in data vis. You might get what you're looking for there?

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