The Championship Thread 2023/2024

[BenTheFox]

3 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Video and technology isn't the issues it the way its used.

 

Works in Rugby, Cricket, Tennis, football is to arrogant to learn off others.

 

 

 

 

In terms of spectacle it tends to work better in those sports because they are generally highscoring and there are more regular natural stoppages.

[coolhandfox]

24 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

In terms of spectacle it tends to work better in those sports because they are generally highscoring and there are more regular natural stoppages.

Ball is only in play 60 minutes in the average football match.

 

It's just needs to be better.

[Aus Fox]

VAR has not improved football at all, we can all accept referees having a bit of human error. It was only when we started over analysing games and looking for something to fill the thousands of minutes of reporting time, so Sky could have something to talk about 24/7 that it became a problem.

For the most part, we understand a human can make an error. We don’t expect strikers to score every chance, or keepers to save every shot, so to expect referees to get it right every time is unrealistic.

Football cannot be compared to either tennis or cricket as their is a natural pause in play and their are far less subjective decisions in play.

Allow the game to be played and refereed without tinkering with the rules all the time, losing the spontaneous celebrations and having ridiculously long breaks in play.

[FOXSE]

39 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

VAR has not improved football at all, we can all accept referees having a bit of human error. It was only when we started over analysing games and looking for something to fill the thousands of minutes of reporting time, so Sky could have something to talk about 24/7 that it became a problem.

For the most part, we understand a human can make an error. We don’t expect strikers to score every chance, or keepers to save every shot, so to expect referees to get it right every time is unrealistic.

Football cannot be compared to either tennis or cricket as their is a natural pause in play and their are far less subjective decisions in play.

Allow the game to be played and refereed without tinkering with the rules all the time, losing the spontaneous celebrations and having ridiculously long breaks in play.

Leicester have an FA cup win, but sure.....

[Aus Fox]

23 minutes ago, FOXSE said:

Leicester have an FA cup win, but sure.....

 Not sure what point you are making here?

[FOXSE]

9 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

 Not sure what point you are making here?

You said VAR hasn't proved football at all.... if Chilwell's goal was incorrectly awarded, like it would have without VAR, we probably don't win the FA cup!

 

For me, it's VAR application that bus the problem. Most games don't restart for 30 secs after a goal. Plenty of time to determine if it should stand.

[Aus Fox]

3 minutes ago, FOXSE said:

You said VAR hasn't proved football at all.... if Chilwell's goal was incorrectly awarded, like it would have without VAR, we probably don't win the FA cup!

 

For me, it's VAR application that bus the problem. Most games don't restart for 30 secs after a goal. Plenty of time to determine if it should stand.

That’s a single moment, and my thoughts towards VAR and how it impacts my enjoyment of football is not based on moments or individual decisions within games.

For that moment, who knows what would have happened in extra time or a penalty shoot out. 
But overall, it’s impact on the game is a negative one.

[iancognito]

4 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

That’s a single moment, and my thoughts towards VAR and how it impacts my enjoyment of football is not based on moments or individual decisions within games.

For that moment, who knows what would have happened in extra time or a penalty shoot out. 
But overall, it’s impact on the game is a negative one.

It depends how much you like winning.

 

I'm sure we'd have had a few goals chalked off this season but in recent games alone we'd have had a pen vs Millwall and they'd have been down to 9 men for some over the ball challenges, we'd have had a pen last night to put us at 2-0. There wouldn't have been an intervention about Harness but at 2-0 we probably get all 3 pts and there's a lot less over-analysis and whinging today..

 

I agree with VAR being in football but they're using it for too many incidents and because of one or two refs being incompentent in that Liverpool Spurs game they're taking too long to get their decisions watertight. If you need to draw lines it's not clear and obvious and in any case benefit of the doubt should go to the attacker anyway. We said for years that refs needed help - this league proves it - but they need help not over-ruling. That idiot last night and the exceptionally gifted Mr Keith Stroud should never ref a game without help, IMO.

[LCFCJohn]

On the VAR thing, I noticed one thing on Boxing Day when having the Burnley/Liverpool game in the background that bothered me.

 

It was the Elliot goal for Liverpool which was disallowed due to Salah being offside in the goalkeepers eye line. An easy decision I thought as he is offside and interfering as the keeper could not see.

 

VAR made the ref go to look on the monitor. I have never see them have to go to the screen for an offside as they are clear cut. Maybe I have just not seen this happen and am missing something?

 

For me, it just had the feeling of VAR not wanting to disallow the goal due to it being Liverpool so passing the book onto the ref. I am sure if that has been in a game between the likes of Sheff Utd/Luton/Wolves/Palace etc, VAR would just make the decision themselves!

[Foxmeister]

5 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

VAR has not improved football at all, we can all accept referees having a bit of human error. It was only when we started over analysing games and looking for something to fill the thousands of minutes of reporting time, so Sky could have something to talk about 24/7 that it became a problem.

For the most part, we understand a human can make an error. We don’t expect strikers to score every chance, or keepers to save every shot, so to expect referees to get it right every time is unrealistic.

Football cannot be compared to either tennis or cricket as their is a natural pause in play and their are far less subjective decisions in play.

Allow the game to be played and refereed without tinkering with the rules all the time, losing the spontaneous celebrations and having ridiculously long breaks in play.

We absolutely do not accept human error from referees, they get death threats when they make mistakes. I've even seen a suggestion on here that their bank accounts should be made public. 

[Nalis]

1 hour ago, LCFCJohn said:

On the VAR thing, I noticed one thing on Boxing Day when having the Burnley/Liverpool game in the background that bothered me.

 

It was the Elliot goal for Liverpool which was disallowed due to Salah being offside in the goalkeepers eye line. An easy decision I thought as he is offside and interfering as the keeper could not see.

 

VAR made the ref go to look on the monitor. I have never see them have to go to the screen for an offside as they are clear cut. Maybe I have just not seen this happen and am missing something?

 

For me, it just had the feeling of VAR not wanting to disallow the goal due to it being Liverpool so passing the book onto the ref. I am sure if that has been in a game between the likes of Sheff Utd/Luton/Wolves/Palace etc, VAR would just make the decision themselves!

There was a video dping the rounds showing Salah was pushed into the offside position just before the shot was taken. Not sure if the ref was taking that into consideration or anything, though possibly not as that would have been a seperate penalty check if anything.

Edited 28 December 2023 by Nalis

[The Doctor]

12 hours ago, Tuna said:

Yeah, absolutely.

VAR awards Sunderland a penalty, gives Rotherham's goal at their place.

Swings and roundabouts.

Var also awards us a penalty Vs Sunderland for the foul on Fatawu that continued into the box but the ref only gave a free kick for, in direct contradiction with the rules of the game but ultimately that's the issue with VAR, it's still refs that don't know what they're doing that are using it. There's literally no demand from PGMOL for basic standards from the refs, take Taylor earlier this season, gets bumped down to the championship for one game to take the heat away then comes back for Chelsea v Man City. That's not any sort of punishment for really poor performances, that's not setting a standard or expectations, that's "yea do what you like, we don't care" and no wonder standards are so far in the toilet that the likes of Keith Stroud keep getting games or Jon Moss got to referee in the prem 

Edited 28 December 2023 by The Doctor

[LCFCJohn]

1 hour ago, Nalis said:

There was a video dping the rounds showing Salah was pushed into the offside position just before the shot was taken. Not sure if the ref was taking that into consideration or anything, though possibly not as that would have been a seperate penalty check if anything.

Ah ok, I hadn’t seen that to be fair. The game was on in the background with sound off so I wasn’t paying attention to the build up to the incident. 

 

As you go on to say though, the fact that the VAR screen was saying checking offside and the replays were of that, it would suggest they were just looking at him stood in the way of the keeper. More specifically, could they find a way of getting out of disallowing the goal.

[Ricey]

1 minute ago, LCFCJohn said:

Ah ok, I hadn’t seen that to be fair. The game was on in the background with sound off so I wasn’t paying attention to the build up to the incident. 

 

As you go on to say though, the fact that the VAR screen was saying checking offside and the replays were of that, it would suggest they were just looking at him stood in the way of the keeper. More specifically, could they find a way of getting out of disallowing the goal.

He would have been told to go to the monitor because it was subjective whether Salah was interfering. For a normal offside where the player offside has touched the ball the referee wouldn’t be sent to the monitor.

[murphy]

12 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Always been tinpot. Regular third division club in the 70s 80s and 2000s. Only ever been in the top division for around 8 seasons in the last 50. 

 

They got the reflected glory of a bigger club perception courtesy of the stadium being used for FA Cup semis - but that's long since gone

Well that's not true.  In the 80s they were a good top flight side.  When Howard Wilkinson  took them up in 84 they stayed for all but one of the next 16 years in the top flight.

 

One of my earliest memories was a 0-5 pumping at Filbert St.

[LCFCJohn]

5 minutes ago, Ricey said:

He would have been told to go to the monitor because it was subjective whether Salah was interfering. For a normal offside where the player offside has touched the ball the referee wouldn’t be sent to the monitor.

Yeah I’m sure this is the case. As I say, I found it odd as it shouldn’t be subjective (in my view). If the keepers view being obscured by a player in an offside position is deemed as interfering and therefore offside, within the rules of the game, I would expect VAR to be able to make that decision as they would with a situation as you describe.

 

If others have seen similar cases referred to the onfield ref that’s fair enough. As I say, I haven’t. It felt, and I may be looking too much into it, that it was because of it being Liverpool. 

[Paninistickers]

4 minutes ago, murphy said:

Well that's not true.  In the 80s they were a good top flight side.  When Howard Wilkinson  took them up in 84 they stayed for all but one of the next 16 years in the top flight.

 

One of my earliest memories was a 0-5 pumping at Filbert St.

Fair enough, I just checked Wikipedia.

 

Last 51 years, 15 in the top flight in one single stretch from the mid 80s, 27 in the second tier and 9 in the third tier. Still pretty ordinary. 

[Leicesterpool]

Seeing as were at the half way point my predictions for the end of season

 

Champions: Leicester City

Runners Up: Ipswich Town

Play Offs: Leeds United

Play Offs: Southampton 

Play Offs: Bristol City (promoted)

Play Offs: Watford 

 

 

Relegated: Birmingham City

Relegated: Rotherham United 

Relegated: Sheffield Wednesday 

Edited 28 December 2023 by Leicesterpool

[Chelmofox]

21 minutes ago, Leicesterpool said:

Seeing as were at the half way point my predictions for the end of season

 

Champions: Leicester City

Runners Up: Ipswich Town

Play Offs: Leeds United

Play Offs: Southampton 

Play Offs: Bristol City (promoted)

Play Offs: Watford 

Champions: Leicester City

Runners Up: Southampton

Play Offs: Leeds United (Promoted)

Play Offs: Ipswich (Finalist)

Play Offs: West Brom 

Play Offs: Sunderland 

[BenTheFox]

11 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Ball is only in play 60 minutes in the average football match.

 

It's just needs to be better.

I understand that, but in cricket the ball is dead after every ball, ditto tennis. Both sports are highscoring so points, runs,wickets etc. Don't usually get the eruption that a goal does in football. My biggest issue with VAR is that it robs us of that feeling, especially when the checks are taking minutes. 

[Lillehamring]

11 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

In terms of spectacle it tends to work better in those sports because they are generally highscoring and there are more regular natural stoppages.

You say that, but with the amount of 'injuries' and diving for free kicks - football is hardly the free flowing experience people make it out to be these days - but that's another issue.

[murphy]

1 minute ago, BenTheFox said:

I understand that, but in cricket the ball is dead after every ball, ditto tennis. Both sports are highscoring so points, runs,wickets etc. Don't usually get the eruption that a goal does in football. My biggest issue with VAR is that it robs us of that feeling, especially when the checks are taking minutes. 

Playing devil's advocate, you could argue that VAR gives you the opportunity to feel that goal rush twice.  Two for the price of one.

 

I agree though.  VAR is shite.

[Lillehamring]

11 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

VAR has not improved football at all, we can all accept referees having a bit of human error. It was only when we started over analysing games and looking for something to fill the thousands of minutes of reporting time, so Sky could have something to talk about 24/7 that it became a problem.

For the most part, we understand a human can make an error. We don’t expect strikers to score every chance, or keepers to save every shot, so to expect referees to get it right every time is unrealistic.

Football cannot be compared to either tennis or cricket as their is a natural pause in play and their are far less subjective decisions in play.

Allow the game to be played and refereed without tinkering with the rules all the time, losing the spontaneous celebrations and having ridiculously long breaks in play.

The loss of spontaneous celebration (amongst players) is a complete myth - 

[Muzzy_no7]

18 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Typical football league fashion, waits until both big games are out the way prior to banning him 

 

 

Wow this is appalling 😂😂😂

[MattFox]

3 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Fair enough, I just checked Wikipedia.

 

Last 51 years, 15 in the top flight in one single stretch from the mid 80s, 27 in the second tier and 9 in the third tier. Still pretty ordinary. 

Wednesday probably the biggest underachievers in English football when you compare fanbase size/ potential too reality

 

They haven’t averaged more than 30k a season since 1961 for anyone interested either…