The Championship Thread 2023/2024

[StanSP]

51 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

He also lost near enough an entire first 11 of players (no player started the Hull match who started the last match of last season)

This is a bit skewed and don't think it's a strong argument as you may think... 

 

In your squad you still had Rutter, Firpo, Summerville, Cooper, Meslier, Gnonto in that final day. 

 

5 of those form part of your strongest XI at the moment. 

 

You're not as hard done as you make out to be, in my opinion. 

 

Farke should be nominated just as much as Enzo. If a mid-season slump works against him, then so should a slow start for Farke. 

[Pub breath]

Just now, StanSP said:

This is a bit skewed and don't think it's a strong argument as you may think... 

 

In your squad you still had Rutter, Firpo, Summerville, Cooper, Meslier, Gnonto in that final day. 

 

5 of those form part of your strongest XI at the moment. 

 

You're not as hard done as you make out to be, in my opinion. 

 

Farke should be nominated just as much as Enzo. If a mid-season slump works against him, then so should a slow start for Farke. 

I wasn't suggesting we had no squad players from last season.  I was showing how we'd lost near enough a full starting 11 and that was a good way of demonstrating it.  I'm well aware we kept some players.

I'm not sure it's fair to compare a mid season slump against a start where he didn't even have his chosen team or much time to prepare.  They aren't the same thing, are they? Meresca had his chosen team when his slump hit, Farke was still trying to build his.

[StanSP]

7 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

I wasn't suggesting we had no squad players from last season.  I was showing how we'd lost near enough a full starting 11 and that was a good way of demonstrating it.  I'm well aware we kept some players.

I'm not sure it's fair to compare a mid season slump against a start where he didn't even have his chosen team or much time to prepare.  They aren't the same thing, are they? Meresca had his chosen team when his slump hit, Farke was still trying to build his.

But it wasn't a near enough starting XI considering some of the players are still at the club? Nearly half of them play now? 

 

If we are using that as a barometer, we didn't have Ndidi, Pereira, Vardy, Doyle during our slump. 

 

[Tommy Fresh]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

But it wasn't a near enough starting XI considering some of the players are still at the club? Nearly half of them play now? 

 

If we are using that as a barometer, we didn't have Ndidi, Pereira, Vardy, Doyle during our slump. 

 

Just to add after the first game in September the gap to Leeds was 6 points, if we win our game in hand they've made up 4 points. Which kind of highlights just how 'okay' Farke was between the end of that window and Christmas, considering the amazing 2024 they've had and how bad our 2024 has been.

[Pub breath]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

But it wasn't a near enough starting XI considering some of the players are still at the club? Nearly half of them play now? 

 

If we are using that as a barometer, we didn't have Ndidi, Pereira, Vardy, Doyle during our slump. 

 

Not sure if you're confused by the language here.  Leeds have actually lost more than 11 players - a player for every position too - who were regular starters last season.  So I was probably wrong to say "near enough" and should have just said a starting 11 plus subs.  I'm not saying we lost every player who featured regularly last season, if that's what you're confused about?

[jayfox26]

I've no issue with Farke being nominated, its Rosenior I don't understand. Leeds, Ipswich and Leicester are all getting 90+ points this season, so all 3 managers should be nominated and Mckenna is the obvious stand out winner in my opinion. I'd argue that Rosenior has underperformed given the players he has at his disposal. Given their January signings as well, they should have motored for the final stretch of the season and been a cert for the play offs, but instead they've been incredibly inconsistent and will most likely not make the play offs. Rosenior is young and I'm sure he'll be a good manager for many years to come but I'm not sure his achievements this season are any better than most managers in this league. If they make the play offs and get promoted, then that will be a different story but seems very unlikely. 

Edited 4 April by jayfox26

[Foxdiamond]

1 minute ago, jayfox26 said:

I've no issue with Farke being nominated, its Rosenior I don't understand. Leeds, Ipswich and Leicester are all getting 90+ points this season, so all 3 managers should be nominated and Mckenna is the obvious stand out winner in my opinion. I'd argue that Rosenior has underperformed given the players he has at his disposal. Given their January signings as well, they should have motored for the final stretch of the season and been a cert for the play offs, but instead they've incredibly inconsistent and will most likely not make the play offs. Rosenior is young and I'm sure he'll be a good manager for many years to come but I'm not sure his achievements this season are any better than most managers in this league. If they make the play offs and get promoted, then that will be a different story but seems very unlikely. 

This is why I suggested the box ticking exercise to include Rosenior. 

[LCFCJohn]

51 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

These awards aren't about experience.  They're about what the team looked like when the manager came in and the position they got to.

You can't sensibly argue that Farke's starting point in August was as good as Maresca's.  Maresca had a whole month more to prepare and most (appreciate not all) of your key business had been done already.  Most of ours had not been done at all.

Maybe there is an agenda.  I have no idea.  That still doesn't alter the fact that from the point of all these squads being put together and the playing field being more equal, Farke has been the standout manager.  I don't think that's likely to be seen by many as a particularly controversial opinion.  

You’re wrong. Farke has done well and I don’t think Maresca should be nominated anyway but you do need to stop this narrative.

 

A number of weeks ago, possible on this thread, I listed the dates of our key business and yours (the dates transfers were completed) and it was very similar for both us and you. You do seem to have this false impression we were all good to go but we weren’t. You didn’t acknowledge that when I posted that previously funnily enough…

 

Edit, on the Leeds post match thread

 

Ethan Ampadu - 19th July
Joe Rodon - 10th August

Joel Piroe - 22nd August

Gruev - 31st August

Kamara - 31st August

 

Cannon - 1st September 

Fatawu - 31st August

Casadei - 15th August

Akgun - 26th August

Mavididi - 31st July

Edited 4 April by LCFCJohn

[TheGoldenGod]

1 hour ago, Pub breath said:

Farke had a whole month less than Maresca to prepare his team.  He also lost near enough an entire first 11 of players (no player started the Hull match who started the last match of last season) and had to deal with a lot of those leaving in August, many of their replacements landing after the season started.  I think every reasonable person can see that the results in Leeds first 5/6 games were in no way a reflection of Farke's real impact as the team was in transition and he'd had a month to work with the players in the middle of a circus.  Since those first few games, Farke's Leeds have comfortably out performed everyone and over a long stretch now.

It does seem a tad unfair on Maresca mind but assume the recent slide and/or financial side have influenced the thinking here enormously.

Yeah I'm unsure if this is unconscious bias or you're fully aware of what you're doing but you cannot just pick and choose a period of games where Leeds were good and ignore the whole picture. Otherwise like another poster has put earlier, we'll just excuse our slump for the fact that AFCON, injuries and a non existent transfer window derailed us for that period. All 3 relegated sides have a drastically changed squad to the ones in the Prem. Farke is one of if not the most experienced manager for a championship promotion charge, Maresca completely untested so that has to be respected.

Either way I posted after my initial comment that I think McKenna deserves it and I wouldn't have Farke or Maresca in there but you cannot have one without the other and certainly wouldn't have even released the nominations 6/7 games before the season's even over .

Edited 4 April by TheGoldenGod

[Super_horns]

1 hour ago, Pub breath said:

These awards aren't about experience.  They're about what the team looked like when the manager came in and the position they got to.

You can't sensibly argue that Farke's starting point in August was as good as Maresca's.  Maresca had a whole month more to prepare and most (appreciate not all) of your key business had been done already.  Most of ours had not been done at all.

Maybe there is an agenda.  I have no idea.  That still doesn't alter the fact that from the point of all these squads being put together and the playing field being more equal, Farke has been the standout manager.  I don't think that's likely to be seen by many as a particularly controversial opinion.  

There is only one winner really .

 

Doesn’t really matter who else was nominated tbh .

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 minute ago, Super_horns said:

There is only one winner really .

 

Doesn’t really matter who else was nominated tbh .

Absolutely. Well said.

[TheGoldenGod]

2 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

Let me ask you a question then.  If Meresca had joined you 4 weeks before the start of the season and had signed just 1 player he wanted to have, are you making him personally responsible for the results being poor as the players he was left with and started games with, were forcing moves out of the club whilst he was trying to get results out of them?  Or do you cut him some slack as it's a complete mess and you know it takes managers time to gel teams and get their ideas across?

I'm saying apply that logic to all 3 relegated managers, especially the one that has no English managerial experience whatsoever. So when we had a wobble, take it just as that...an understandable blip. Farke hasn't done anything more impressive with this Leeds team than Maresca has...that's just facts. If anything, we win our game in hand and we'll be above you so you have to question how one manager can be in and not the other (as I've mentioned above).

[fox_up_north]

What Ipswich have done is absolutely insane. Even if they finish in the play offs, they should win all the awards. 

[FrankieADZ]

56 minutes ago, Pub breath said:

Not sure if you're confused by the language here.  Leeds have actually lost more than 11 players - a player for every position too - who were regular starters last season.  So I was probably wrong to say "near enough" and should have just said a starting 11 plus subs.  I'm not saying we lost every player who featured regularly last season, if that's what you're confused about?

thats a yes and no, yeah they lost alot of players but not all were regular starters, most of their forward line started and stayed; thinking maybe 5/6 at a push they lost who started on the reg, 

as for "lost" tho, they havent all, mckennie was on loan, harrison is on loan at everton, the 2 they sold to bournemouth, one at roma(on loan), Koch back to the bunders

 

they didnt lose them at all

Edited 4 April by FrankieADZ

[FoyleFox]

I cannot comprehend how the Manager of the season nominations are McKenna, Farke and Rosenior. 

 

All season we've had what an outstanding job McKenna, Enzo and Farke have been doing and how it's been a remarkable points accumulating season. So, they've nominated Rosenior!?

 

McKenna is the correct winner but it's very odd. 

[FrankieADZ]

18 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

What Ipswich have done is absolutely insane. Even if they finish in the play offs, they should win all the awards. 

mckenna will get manager of the season, they'll have a number in team too, Davis will be in there i think

[FrankieADZ]

Just now, FoyleFox said:

I cannot comprehend how the Manager of the season nominations are McKenna, Farke and Rosenior. 

 

All season we've had what an outstanding job McKenna, Enzo and Farke have been doing and how it's been a remarkable points accumulating season. So, they've nominated Rosenior!?

 

McKenna is the correct winner but it's very odd. 

tbf other managers deserve it more then Rosenior, take out all them loan players in that Hull team and they are pretty bang average

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, Pub breath said:

These awards aren't about experience.  They're about what the team looked like when the manager came in and the position they got to.

You can't sensibly argue that Farke's starting point in August was as good as Maresca's.  Maresca had a whole month more to prepare and most (appreciate not all) of your key business had been done already.  Most of ours had not been done at all.

Maybe there is an agenda.  I have no idea.  That still doesn't alter the fact that from the point of all these squads being put together and the playing field being more equal, Farke has been the standout manager.  I don't think that's likely to be seen by many as a particularly controversial opinion.  

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Getting worked up about these types of awards is proper Leeds fan behaviour. We're one of the most succesfull teams of this century, getting upset over of the SkyBet Manager of the Season awards is very small time. 

[ClaphamFox]

 

2 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Getting worked up about these types of awards is proper Leeds fan behaviour. We're one of the most succesfull teams of this century, getting upset over of the SkyBet Manager of the Season awards is very small time. 

Exactly. So what if the EFL doesn't like us very much? It's not exactly surprising given that we refused to submit the business plan they demanded and are now apparently in the process of suing them. We're not exactly going to be flavour of the month, are we?

Even if we win the division (which is obviously a big 'if'), they probably won't send anybody to present the trophy. It will just come in a cardboard box via Hermes or Yodel. Who cares? We'll have our own party. 

[Blarmy]

Simple logic to apply:

 

IF(Achiever = “Leeds United” THEN 

     Achievement * 2 ELSE Achievement)

[Sol thewall Bamba]

21 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

 

Exactly. So what if the EFL doesn't like us very much? It's not exactly surprising given that we refused to submit the business plan they demanded and are now apparently in the process of suing them. We're not exactly going to be flavour of the month, are we?

Even if we win the division (which is obviously a big 'if'), they probably won't send anybody to present the trophy. It will just come in a cardboard box via Hermes or Yodel. Who cares? We'll have our own party. 

Yeah. I think this obession with being "liked" is still fallout from when we won the Prem. Prior to that we were never a fashinable club and no one seemed to care. 

[Chelmofox]

24 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

Simple logic to apply:

 

IF(Achiever = “Leeds United” THEN 

     Achievement * 2 ELSE Achievement)

Do you need a job  

[Nobbyburton]

I'm quite enjoying being the underdogs again and the attention/plaudits being for Leeds and Ipswich, I think it's exactly what our squad needs. 

 

For so long we weren't interesting to talk about, so it seems like the media and fans are enjoying the other teams leading the way. I'm definitely ok with the focus being elsewhere when we have a game in hand to go top, we can focus on ourselves and hopefully get the job done.

 

[fox_up_north]

11 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Yeah. I think this obession with being "liked" is still fallout from when we won the Prem. Prior to that we were never a fashinable club and no one seemed to care. 

We stopped being liked the minute we sacked Ranieri.

From the outside, we were ungrateful for sacking him because he won the title.

 

Then people liked us again because we beat Chelsea for the cup. But then they stopped liking us for sacking King Brendan Who Could Do No Wrong.

Apparently, he would have kept us up.

 

Then there are just salty fans who think we shouldn't exist as a club because of 2002 and we're responsible for FFP.