fuchsntf Posted 29 January Share Posted 29 January 51 minutes ago, filbertway said: Oh I just use evidence. There's a clear pattern, its upto you if you want to ignore it my man. Thank you I will.. Makes my life easier than chasing shadows.. Short or long cast.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Dempsey Posted 30 January Share Posted 30 January 18 hours ago, moore_94 said: Its Raikhy not Lindley Great to see you back oli. A few more not far behind now 🙏🙏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 30 January Share Posted 30 January 15 minutes ago, Frances Dempsey said: Great to see you back oli. A few more not far behind now 🙏🙏 Is @moore_94 Oli Ewing??? Well well well 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Dempsey Posted 30 January Share Posted 30 January 45 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Is @moore_94 Oli Ewing??? Well well well 😉 😂🙄 what’s that got to do with being happy to see him back and others soon who have been injured for a while!🥱 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 30 January Share Posted 30 January 15 minutes ago, Frances Dempsey said: 😂🙄 what’s that got to do with being happy to see him back and others soon who have been injured for a while!🥱 You'd quoted @moore_94 and I thought for a minute we'd got a resident academy player who posted on here!! 😂 Its good to see the likes of Ewing return. Hopefully Braybrooke, Popov, Flynn etc do too. Unfortunately we don't get to hear updates on academy injuries very often. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesta2014 Posted 31 January Share Posted 31 January Would love a couple of u21s to go on loan to league 1/2 no links at the minute so guessing it’s unlikely this season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 31 January Share Posted 31 January 1 hour ago, Lesta2014 said: Would love a couple of u21s to go on loan to league 1/2 no links at the minute so guessing it’s unlikely this season Rob Huth must have the cushiest gig going, although it must be highly frustrating/dull. I get we need to keep more around the 1st team but there's still a few we could look to get loans such as Maswanhise and Richards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandfox Posted 31 January Share Posted 31 January 50 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Rob Huth must have the cushiest gig going, although it must be highly frustrating/dull. I get we need to keep more around the 1st team but there's still a few we could look to get loans such as Maswanhise and Richards. Someone suitable has to want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 31 January Share Posted 31 January 1 minute ago, coolhandfox said: Someone suitable has to want them. Sure and it's often a reputation thing, I feel we're at an impasse where we're not a club to go to to loan academy players like some clubs are. Maybe as well some of them are victims of not standing out in games because its's a process of getting 1st team ready for us, as opposed to being attractive to other clubs that's more obvious if the academy is putting in strong performances. I've not done the research but I'd not be surprised to see us below our rivals at loaning out academy players in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kilworthfox Posted 31 January Popular Post Share Posted 31 January Everything has to align for a academy player to go on loan. There are many factors that will determine a loan or no loan. Its actually far more complex that just wanting to play away from the academy or not. Examples: Firstly a player has to want to go. The club have to see a benefit for a loan. The potential loan club has to need a player in a certain position. The loan club has to be playing at a certain level. The academy club need a detailed presentation from all potential clubs who want to loan said player. The presentation must align with what the club believe the progression needs to be for the player, and style of play should suit what the loaning club want. There may be conditions or commitments attached to the loan in terms of games % expected loan player to appear in and finances for the loan. In the past it may have been a more simple process where x player is told the manager that they are going to play for x club for x amount of time, but this doesn't happen now, its actually very understandable considering the finances plus time and the amount of stakeholders with an interest in the players development, or not. To suggest the club has a cushy job shows a lack of understanding how complex these deals can become. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandfox Posted 31 January Share Posted 31 January 25 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Sure and it's often a reputation thing, I feel we're at an impasse where we're not a club to go to to loan academy players like some clubs are. Maybe as well some of them are victims of not standing out in games because its's a process of getting 1st team ready for us, as opposed to being attractive to other clubs that's more obvious if the academy is putting in strong performances. I've not done the research but I'd not be surprised to see us below our rivals at loaning out academy players in this regard. I agree, taking players from an Academy side struggling isn't that attractive. Add to that we are giveing time to Nelson, Macteer, Stolarczyk and Wanya, all of whom would have probably gone out on loan if we were still a PL side. My son friends at Man City in the u21 he mentioned they will not loan him to anyone because of his age. I assume a players age and maturity must come into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldeagle Posted 31 January Share Posted 31 January 1 hour ago, Kilworthfox said: Everything has to align for a academy player to go on loan. There are many factors that will determine a loan or no loan. Its actually far more complex that just wanting to play away from the academy or not. Examples: Firstly a player has to want to go. The club have to see a benefit for a loan. The potential loan club has to need a player in a certain position. The loan club has to be playing at a certain level. The academy club need a detailed presentation from all potential clubs who want to loan said player. The presentation must align with what the club believe the progression needs to be for the player, and style of play should suit what the loaning club want. There may be conditions or commitments attached to the loan in terms of games % expected loan player to appear in and finances for the loan. In the past it may have been a more simple process where x player is told the manager that they are going to play for x club for x amount of time, but this doesn't happen now, its actually very understandable considering the finances plus time and the amount of stakeholders with an interest in the players development, or not. To suggest the club has a cushy job shows a lack of understanding how complex these deals can become. Yeah but on my computer game I can ….. Greatl post btw ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillehamring Posted 31 January Share Posted 31 January On 30/01/2024 at 14:58, Ric Flair said: Is @moore_94 Oli Ewing??? Well well well 😉 Am i the only one who read this and thought it said Ewing Oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rorab Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February (edited) 4 hours ago, Kilworthfox said: Everything has to align for a academy player to go on loan. There are many factors that will determine a loan or no loan. Its actually far more complex that just wanting to play away from the academy or not. Examples: Firstly a player has to want to go. The club have to see a benefit for a loan. The potential loan club has to need a player in a certain position. The loan club has to be playing at a certain level. The academy club need a detailed presentation from all potential clubs who want to loan said player. The presentation must align with what the club believe the progression needs to be for the player, and style of play should suit what the loaning club want. There may be conditions or commitments attached to the loan in terms of games % expected loan player to appear in and finances for the loan. In the past it may have been a more simple process where x player is told the manager that they are going to play for x club for x amount of time, but this doesn't happen now, its actually very understandable considering the finances plus time and the amount of stakeholders with an interest in the players development, or not. To suggest the club has a cushy job shows a lack of understanding how complex these deals can become. I do agree with you that securing loans must be difficult with a lot of different variables and there is definitely an oversimplification of the process in the eyes of someone frustrated by it. The issue for me isn't that we aren't seemingly able to loan academy players out, it's that basically every other club IS - we are largely the odd ones out in this, whether that's through failure or a difference in strategy or anything else. I looked at the number of loans we had out in the Prem I think last year and if I remember correctly we were one of like 2 teams with fewer than 10 loans out or something like that. (Apologies for the lack for specificity but I can't be arsed to trawl through my posts to fact check, but will if needed.) Surely it can't be the often touted no one is interested in them, unless we singularly in all of the Championship and Prem teams just have bad players that no-one wants, when everyone else does not. Why would every other club get rafts of loans and absolutely no-one be interested in our players? That argument largely makes zero sense unless you think our youth are uniquely shite. Whether by mistake or design, we don't seem to loan out players at anywhere near the rate of most other clubs. Again this isn't the be all and end all, we still have a great propensity for bringing through academy players into the first team, but it is something that sticks out compared to other teams. So you're right, it isn't a cushy job and likely has a lot of moving parts, but why we aren't showing the same level of output in generating loans as other clubs are is something I wonder about. Edited 1 February by The_Rorab 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnow john Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 3 hours ago, Lillehamring said: Am i the only one who read this and thought it said Ewing Oil? Looks that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 10 hours ago, Kilworthfox said: Everything has to align for a academy player to go on loan. There are many factors that will determine a loan or no loan. Its actually far more complex that just wanting to play away from the academy or not. Examples: Firstly a player has to want to go. The club have to see a benefit for a loan. The potential loan club has to need a player in a certain position. The loan club has to be playing at a certain level. The academy club need a detailed presentation from all potential clubs who want to loan said player. The presentation must align with what the club believe the progression needs to be for the player, and style of play should suit what the loaning club want. There may be conditions or commitments attached to the loan in terms of games % expected loan player to appear in and finances for the loan. In the past it may have been a more simple process where x player is told the manager that they are going to play for x club for x amount of time, but this doesn't happen now, its actually very understandable considering the finances plus time and the amount of stakeholders with an interest in the players development, or not. To suggest the club has a cushy job shows a lack of understanding how complex these deals can become. I respect your posts and knowledge. Wish we'd get to read more of them 🙂 Not suggesting it's easy, but that's entirely what the structure has been put in place for. I'm going to do some research on academy loans, like I did on 1st team transfers where we were shown to be well below pur rivals in getting transfer fees for players we no longer wanted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February Just checked Southampton and Leeds and they aren't much better than us this season in loaning out academy players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Fannieri Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Just checked Southampton and Leeds and they aren't much better than us this season in loaning out academy players. I suppose the difficulty is, if you loan out an academy player, where do they go that will give them the grounding and opportunity to play in a similar style as to how we play? I can’t see too many clubs affording us that option. Therefore whilst academy football is nowhere near as competitive as a loan in league 1 or 2, maybe the club believe the better prospects are better off staying in and around the club, training with the 1st team and opportunities will come. Too be fair to Enzo he has bloodied a good few this season and others seem to be on the cusp and training regularly as part of the first team sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilworthfox Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 1 hour ago, Ric Flair said: I respect your posts and knowledge. Wish we'd get to read more of them 🙂 Not suggesting it's easy, but that's entirely what the structure has been put in place for. I'm going to do some research on academy loans, like I did on 1st team transfers where we were shown to be well below pur rivals in getting transfer fees for players we no longer wanted. I'd post more often but, there are so many off the mark comments here, I'd find myself becoming a moderator and in reality it's just not that important as I have a life 😎 You know to PM me if you want to know something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 12 hours ago, Kilworthfox said: Everything has to align for a academy player to go on loan. There are many factors that will determine a loan or no loan. Its actually far more complex that just wanting to play away from the academy or not. Examples: Firstly a player has to want to go. The club have to see a benefit for a loan. The potential loan club has to need a player in a certain position. The loan club has to be playing at a certain level. The academy club need a detailed presentation from all potential clubs who want to loan said player. The presentation must align with what the club believe the progression needs to be for the player, and style of play should suit what the loaning club want. There may be conditions or commitments attached to the loan in terms of games % expected loan player to appear in and finances for the loan. In the past it may have been a more simple process where x player is told the manager that they are going to play for x club for x amount of time, but this doesn't happen now, its actually very understandable considering the finances plus time and the amount of stakeholders with an interest in the players development, or not. To suggest the club has a cushy job shows a lack of understanding how complex these deals can become. I miss @Kilworthfox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 32 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said: I suppose the difficulty is, if you loan out an academy player, where do they go that will give them the grounding and opportunity to play in a similar style as to how we play? I can’t see too many clubs affording us that option. Therefore whilst academy football is nowhere near as competitive as a loan in league 1 or 2, maybe the club believe the better prospects are better off staying in and around the club, training with the 1st team and opportunities will come. Too be fair to Enzo he has bloodied a good few this season and others seem to be on the cusp and training regularly as part of the first team sessions. Yeah there's definitely something in the way we play but on the flip side we don't only sign players that have come from sides that play inverted full backs etc. Enzo is able to spot qualities in players to use in his system. He's taken McAteer who had 2 loan spells with mixed success and seems to really rate him. He's managed to turn Ndidi in to a more well rounded midfielder etc. It's players like Maswanhise and Wanya who need to play, those that have been around the 1st team for a few years but not gotten a chance or chances are now very limited. Nelson got 2 loan spells last season and is now very close to the 1st team. I think our 1st team could cope without them too even in case of injuries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 18 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said: I'd post more often but, there are so many off the mark comments here, I'd find myself becoming a moderator and in reality it's just not that important as I have a life 😎 You know to PM me if you want to know something. It's usually me with the off the mark comments 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilworthfox Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 16 minutes ago, Raj said: I miss @Kilworthfox Haha thanks mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilworthfox Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: It's usually me with the off the mark comments 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox on the Rox Posted 1 February Share Posted 1 February 15 hours ago, Kilworthfox said: Everything has to align for a academy player to go on loan. There are many factors that will determine a loan or no loan. Its actually far more complex that just wanting to play away from the academy or not. Examples: Firstly a player has to want to go. The club have to see a benefit for a loan. The potential loan club has to need a player in a certain position. The loan club has to be playing at a certain level. The academy club need a detailed presentation from all potential clubs who want to loan said player. The presentation must align with what the club believe the progression needs to be for the player, and style of play should suit what the loaning club want. There may be conditions or commitments attached to the loan in terms of games % expected loan player to appear in and finances for the loan. In the past it may have been a more simple process where x player is told the manager that they are going to play for x club for x amount of time, but this doesn't happen now, its actually very understandable considering the finances plus time and the amount of stakeholders with an interest in the players development, or not. To suggest the club has a cushy job shows a lack of understanding how complex these deals can become. Interesting. Are you saying this is what happens at Leicester City or what should happen if things are done properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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