Signing Mahrez would not have been possible post Brexit

[Winchesterfox]

2 hours ago, An Away Move said:

In the long run will this move perhaps re-strengthen continental European clubs at the cost of British clubs? The Telegraph article paints Brexit as a positive game changer. Not sure myself. Overseas players are often eligible for European clubs. Plenty of Brazilians have Italian ancestry for example. 

You mean the Telegraph that's owned by billionaires who live in a tax haven and support Brexit?  Uncanny coincidence.   

[An Away Move]

6 minutes ago, Winchesterfox said:

You mean the Telegraph that's owned by billionaires who live in a tax haven and support Brexit?  Uncanny coincidence.   

Agree. 

[An Away Move]

17 minutes ago, Strokes said:

So long as it’s the same rules for all teams I’m not really sure what difference it makes.

Might make the game in England weaker compared to La Liga, etc., in the long run?

Edited 25 June 2023 by An Away Move

[Lesta Legend]

52 minutes ago, Master Fox said:

Ghezzal? Tete ? Thought we had already done that? 

😂 Yeah well let's blame @Ric Flairfor hyping Tete up. It fairness I had high hopes too. 

 

Good scouting will ensure some gems can be found but the recruitment system isn't currently what it once was. 

[davieG]

1 hour ago, An Away Move said:

It was a two way street. 

it was when we part of the EU but now we're not we have the freedom to decide who can work here or not without the need to consider their country of origin. 

[surrifox]

Man City would have been able to sign him , none of the rules or laws apply to them 

[An Away Move]

9 minutes ago, davieG said:

it was when we part of the EU but now we're not we have the freedom to decide who can work here or not without the need to consider their country of origin. 

This is not the case. Mahrez and Kanté were available for us to sign because of EU freedom of movement. They were not established internationals. Brexit has made it impossible for us to get players in the same way from continental Europe. If we found someone similar now we no longer have the freedom to sign them. 

[KingsX]

Telegraph article notes that what football clubs could do before Brexit, but Brexit made illegal, has been tweaked to be possible for the first time since Brexit.

 

And touts this as a "Brexit benefit".

 

Even a Yank could see that one coming.

[davieG]

33 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

This is not the case. Mahrez and Kanté were available for us to sign because of EU freedom of movement. They were not established internationals. Brexit has made it impossible for us to get players in the same way from continental Europe. If we found someone similar now we no longer have the freedom to sign them. 

Because of our own restrictions.

 

British regulations determine whether you can live and work in the UK. The UK has a points-based immigration system. To live and work in the UK you must meet specific requirements. For example, you must earn over a certain amount and have sufficient command of the English language. 

 

https://www.government.nl/topics/brexit/question-and-answer/can-i-still-live-and-work-in-the-uk-after-brexit#:~:text=British regulations determine whether you,command of the English language.

 

However I do note that footballers are subject to FIFA regulations who have different criteria so I accept your point.

 

 

The FIFA rule around international transfers comes into play meaning that clubs will not be able to sign overseas players until they are 18 years old (prior to Brexit, clubs could sign U18 players from other EU countries).

Foreign players under 21. In the first transfer window — January 2021 — Premier League clubs can sign a maximum of three U21 players from overseas, and only six overseas U21 players per season moving forwards (providing these players meet the entry requirements).

There is no mention of EFL clubs here, so presumably, they can sign as many overseas U21 players as they like providing the entry requirements are met.

 

 

 

 

[Nick57]

2 hours ago, Winchesterfox said:

You mean the Telegraph that's owned by billionaires who live in a tax haven and support Brexit?  Uncanny coincidence.   

Lloyds bank owns the Telgraph now after it was put into receivership earlier this month

[Saxondale]

Yeah, but some senile, piss-stained pensioners on mobility scooters can bang on about sovrintee, so it’s all worth it.

[Paninistickers]

Wasn't this the idea of acquiring Leuven?

 

That we could pick up a Mahrez via Leuven and then they loan the player to us? If he's on the Leuven payroll and we simply 'rent' Mahrez as a product, then this would be a workaround, right? 

[Royston.]

We can still sign Mahrez now though.

[moore_94]

16 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Wasn't this the idea of acquiring Leuven?

 

That we could pick up a Mahrez via Leuven and then they loan the player to us? If he's on the Leuven payroll and we simply 'rent' Mahrez as a product, then this would be a workaround, right? 

We don't even have to do that anymore with the new rules that allow us to sign players who wouldn't be eligible for a work permit and we can still play them

[An Away Move]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Because of our own restrictions.

 

British regulations determine whether you can live and work in the UK. The UK has a points-based immigration system. To live and work in the UK you must meet specific requirements. For example, you must earn over a certain amount and have sufficient command of the English language. 

 

https://www.government.nl/topics/brexit/question-and-answer/can-i-still-live-and-work-in-the-uk-after-brexit#:~:text=British regulations determine whether you,command of the English language.

 

However I do note that footballers are subject to FIFA regulations who have different criteria so I accept your point.

 

 

The FIFA rule around international transfers comes into play meaning that clubs will not be able to sign overseas players until they are 18 years old (prior to Brexit, clubs could sign U18 players from other EU countries).

Foreign players under 21. In the first transfer window — January 2021 — Premier League clubs can sign a maximum of three U21 players from overseas, and only six overseas U21 players per season moving forwards (providing these players meet the entry requirements).

There is no mention of EFL clubs here, so presumably, they can sign as many overseas U21 players as they like providing the entry requirements are met.

 

 

 

 

Sounds like we’ve shot ourselves in the foot re: the above. Mahrez and Kanté were both over 21 when we signed them and non-internationals I believe. The Telegraph reports Mahrez could not have been signed now under the new rules. Thus it was freedom of movement that we had before that allowed it. 

[TJQuik]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Because of our own restrictions.

 

British regulations determine whether you can live and work in the UK. The UK has a points-based immigration system. To live and work in the UK you must meet specific requirements. For example, you must earn over a certain amount and have sufficient command of the English language. 

 

https://www.government.nl/topics/brexit/question-and-answer/can-i-still-live-and-work-in-the-uk-after-brexit#:~:text=British regulations determine whether you,command of the English language.

 

However I do note that footballers are subject to FIFA regulations who have different criteria so I accept your point.

 

 

The FIFA rule around international transfers comes into play meaning that clubs will not be able to sign overseas players until they are 18 years old (prior to Brexit, clubs could sign U18 players from other EU countries).

Foreign players under 21. In the first transfer window — January 2021 — Premier League clubs can sign a maximum of three U21 players from overseas, and only six overseas U21 players per season moving forwards (providing these players meet the entry requirements).

There is no mention of EFL clubs here, so presumably, they can sign as many overseas U21 players as they like providing the entry requirements are met.

 

 

 

 

You mean it's completely up to us what kind of immigration laws we have, and being part of a neoliberal trade bloc of fading imperialist powers isn't necessary at all to have a more progressive country? I'm shocked I tell you, shocked

[oxford blue]

5 hours ago, An Away Move said:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/06/18/the-brexit-benefit-change-premier-league-transfers/

Could I suggest if anyone is posting a link from Telegraph or Times) the article is copied and pasted, because it can't be read unless you are a a subscriber.

 

I think it has been established we almost certainly could sign Mahrez now given rule change from June (so premise of title is incorrect). 

https://www.thefa.com/news/2023/jun/14/new-gbe-criteria-140623

 

[An Away Move]

18 minutes ago, oxford blue said:

Could I suggest if anyone is posting a link from Telegraph or Times) the article is copied and pasted, because it can't be read unless you are a a subscriber.

 

I think it has been established we almost certainly could sign Mahrez now given rule change from June (so premise of title is incorrect). 

https://www.thefa.com/news/2023/jun/14/new-gbe-criteria-140623

 

18 June 2023 • 5:47pm

The rush for South America is on: Premier League clubs have finally secured from the Football Association the right to buy players from anywhere in the world, and the first place they are heading is the world’s richest talent-production region.

The cities of Brazil, and beyond, as well as Africa and talent hot spots in Japan and South Korea – and the lower leagues in Europe – are now legitimate scouting grounds for England’s biggest clubs, and those in the Football League.

Clubs will be permitted two wildcard squad places for what the FA describes as “elite significant contribution” (ESC) players. The ESC players are those who do not meet current work permit regulations but have the potential to thrive. Up to two more ESC wildcards will be granted depending on how many minutes a club gives to the other side of the equation: England qualified players (EQPs). For the Premier League, and their Championship brethren, it is the start of a new era.

Some believe it to be the biggest change to recruitment in the Premier League’s history. For footballers all over the world, it could be a ticket to the Premier League previously denied to them by dint of nationality. For English clubs it could be a tangible Brexit benefit, a re-organising of trading norms that previously saw them pay a huge premium to European counterparts. But there will be losers too. There is a risk of talent stockpiling by the biggest clubs, and as ever the concern is around the English footballer’s place in it all.

The promise of a post-Brexit paradise of free trade never materialised for clubs after Britain exited the European Union. Previously, clubs were able to sign boys from within the EU at 16 providing that easily-attainable provisions were met. That led to the plundering of Barcelona’s academy and others in the 2000s for the likes of Cesc Fabregas and Gerard Pique, but that privilege was lost with Brexit.

Pre-Brexit rules allowed Premier League clubs to plunder Barcelona's academy for players like Cesc Fabregas, who signed for Arsenal in 2003 CREDIT: Getty Images/Mike Hewitt

The ESC comes at the end of long post-Brexit negotiations between the clubs and the FA which holds the balance of power – the governing body endorsement (GBE) – as the authority invested by the Home Office to draw up the work permit system. The FA chief executive Mark Bullingham has made it his stated aim to protect the EQP place in the system – and rightly so. The first post-Brexit GBE system was renegotiated, resulting in the agreement announced last week.

Post-Brexit, GBE work permits have been awarded to overseas players through a system in which they accumulate points for minutes played in domestic leagues and national teams – with more points available the higher the standard of league and team. The requirement is 15 and those who fall short can have their prospective club plead their case on appeal at the exemptions panel. But the volatility of that system meant that few clubs could risk investing in scouting and signing a player if they did not know for sure his appeal would pass.

The original GBE system presented problems. Players who met the 15-point criteria were inevitably priced at a level that was unaffordable for all Championship teams, and many in the Premier League.

For Championship clubs in particular it all but ruled out signings from overseas lower-tier leagues. In 2014, and a Championship club then as they are now, Leicester City signed Riyad Mahrez from then Ligue 2 French club Le Havre for £450,000. Under current rules that would have been impossible. Mahrez would not have made the 15 GBE points. Now a 2023 talent like Mahrez could be signed by a Championship club as an ESC.

Leicester City signed Riyad Mahrez in 2014 for £450,000, which under current rules would have been impossible CREDIT: AMA/Getty Images/James Williamson

For the big clubs, the standard of player they sought was generally so high he would almost certainly meet the criteria. The ESC option gives them a chance to sign raw talent cheap who, in a few years’ time, with European league experience, might cost tens of millions more.

Therein lies the big saving. Of the £1.9 billion on fees the Premier League clubs spent in last summer’s window, £1.19 billion was spent on players from European leagues. Many of them were non-EU nationals signed by clubs in European countries with a much more lenient work permit system, developed and then sold on at eye-watering profit to the Premier League.

The highest single EU nation Premier League spend last summer was £207 million in France. In French football all EU players get work permits. Clubs are permitted a quota of four non-EU players, and a waiver for any players from a Francophone African nation. In Germany, which generated £196 million in fees from Premier League clubs last summer, any player aged 18 or over with the offer of a Bundesliga contract is awarded a work permit.

Darwin Nunez, by way of example, joined the Spanish club Almeria, from his native Uruguay, as a 20-year-old for around £4 million. Last summer he left Benfica as Liverpool’s record £85 million signing. At the same age the Brazilian Antony left Sao Paulo for Ajax in a deal that was worth around £18 million. He joined Manchester United last summer for £86 million.

In the future Liverpool and United will be able to sign some – if not all – those South Americans directly. A third ESC will be available if a club’s percentage of overall minutes for EQP players is 30 or above, and a fourth place if that reaches 35 per cent. The rest of their non-British signings will still have to meet the 15-point bar under the GBE system.

The original plan to stop stockpiling was that if a player under the age of 21 was signed as an ESC he would have to take a place in the 25-man Premier League squad. That was dropped from the final agreement and represents a risk that clubs will just accumulate talent.

The FA hopes that by incentivising the development of EQPs – the players that will make up future England teams – it will balance the influx of global talent. It remains to be seen. The argument for some clubs is that in order to grant a chance to their academy players they need the benefit of talented senior players who do not cost a premium for having come via Europe.

For the wealthiest, the search has already begun. Manchester City’s Abu Dhabi owners have recently added the Brazilian club EC Bahiato their City Football Group. By far the biggest of the 13 CFG clubs after City, EC Bahia will offer City’s recruitment team an insight into the Brazilian game few others enjoy.

The biggest agencies representing players are investing in their South American networks. It is already a crowded field. Endrick, the 16-year-old prodigy, already has a deal to join Real from Palmeiras next year.

Endrick, the 16-year-old who has a deal with Real Madrid CREDIT: Getty Images/Alexandre Schneider

The FA has struck a bold deal with the Premier League. This has been a golden age for English footballers who must be encouraged to bloom in this, the richest, most competitive football league in the world. The losers? It will certainly be harder for European clubs who have traditionally traded players from South America and Africa and sold them on to English clubs. They might have complained about the Premier League’s financial advantage over the years, but they have also benefited from its generous transfer fees

Edited 25 June 2023 by An Away Move

[SheppyFox]

Shame it didn’t stop northern Irish managers.

[Strokes]

4 hours ago, An Away Move said:

Might make the game in England weaker compared to La Liga, etc., in the long run?

Doubt it, it’s not affecting established players is it?

[Rob Clarke]

Hardly surprising that the Telegraph or "Torygraph" puts a positive spin on Brexit.

[Vlad the Fox]

I suppose one positive is that clubs may be forced to use their youth players or homegrown talent instead of leaving them stuck in u23 teams while your ghezzels and tetes stink the place out taking squad places. 

[An Away Move]

17 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Doubt it, it’s not affecting established players is it?

A big reason we won the league is because we took a punt on the unknown Mahrez and Kanté. 

[Sir Shep]

zzzzzzzzz

[Strokes]

34 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

A big reason we won the league is because we took a punt on the unknown Mahrez and Kanté. 

Yeah, how did that affect our league vs Europe?