Joel Piroe

[Finnegan]

14 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

But, as your stats support, a very different type of striker to Daka and Vardy, whilst being a sort of mutant version of nacho?
 

 

I dont think he's comparable to any of them really. 

 

Iheanacho described himself years ago when he arrived as a 10 and I think that's largely still true. He's never seen that role here because we've always either had better (Maddison) or just not played with one. A lot of his more memorable moments here have been dropping in, finding space off the ball and picking quite positive, vertical through balls. 

 

The perception of Piroe as being creative for me is a misreading of the stats (he scores in high percentiles for passing and pass completion) based on the fact that Swansea under Martin played a patient, on the deck style of football that involved Piroe having a lot of touches and making a lot of short, accurate passes. These were likely more often than not lay-offs and one twos to more creative players who would then be looking to get it back to him to score. 

 

He doesn't have the statistical profile of a creator at all, he's not there to assist, he's there to score goals. He reminds me a bit of a pre-Guardiola Lewandowski or a pre-Son partnership Kane. Yes he might drop a bit and get involved in the build up but it's not really to create, yes he'll hold the ball up but he's not a target man in the conventional English sense. 

 

Edited 20 July 2023 by Finnegan

[Lillehamring]

8 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Piroe and Iheanacho could work well together. Piroe is more direct , Iheanacho links well.

Don't think any of us really imagine we'll be able to have both of them, though.

[Lillehamring]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I dont think he's comparable to any of them really. 

 

Iheanacho described himself years ago when he arrived as a 10 and I think that's largely still true. He's never seen that role here because we've always either had better (Maddison) or just not played with one. A lot of his more memorable moments here have been dropping in, finding space off the ball and picking quite positive, vertical through balls. 

 

The perception of Piroe as being creative for me is a misreading of the stats (he scores in high percentiles for passing and pass completion) based on the fact that Swansea under Martin played a patient, on the deck style of football that involved Piroe having a lot of touches and making a lot of short, accurate passes. These were likely more often than not lay-offs and one twos to more creative players who would then be looking to get it back to him to score. 

 

He doesn't have the statistical profile of a creator at all, he's not there to assist, he's there to score goals. He reminds me a bit of a pre-Guardiola Lewandowski or a pre-Son partnership Kane. Yes he might drop a bit and get involved in the build up but it's not really to create, yes he'll hold the ball up but he's not a target man in the conventional English sense. 

 

interesting. as i say. i've not seen much of him, so can only really go from the goals he scores - which certainly seem (as far as i can recall) to be less goal poaching or counter attacking goals, more goals where he's made something out of nothing - which would fit with his +xG rating....

 

Still sounds like the sort of player we don't have and without maddison's contribution, we might really need.  I feel like he'd be more likely to get 20 goals than vardy, anyway.

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

feel like he'd be more likely to get 20 goals than vardy, anyway

 

I just can't get my head around this from people to be honest. 

 

I know I'm a stuck record and there's no way of proving this until the season starts but I believe quite strongly people will be pleasantly (I would hope?) surprised by Vardy or Daka's goal contributions come the start of the season. 

 

If we sort the supply out, these guys will score goals. No concerns. 

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I just can't get my head around this from people to be honest. 

 

I know I'm a stuck record and there's no way of proving this until the season starts but I believe quite strongly people will be pleasantly (I would hope?) surprised by Vardy or Daka's goal contributions come the start of the season. 

 

If we sort the supply out, these guys will score goals. No concerns. 

As will kelechi.  What we need is wingers and a Maddison replacement.

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

As will kelechi

 

For who? 

[copunk]

Far too many writing Vards off for my liking 

Dismiss the GOAT at your peril 

[ClaphamFox]

7 minutes ago, copunk said:

Far too many writing Vards off for my liking 

Dismiss the GOAT at your peril 

It was only a few months ago that he outpaced the Leeds and Everton defences to score a couple of vintage Vardy goals. Maresca clearly prefers him to Iheancho and Daka. He will have a major role to play this season, even if we do get a new striker in. He'll probably then retire or leave for a final pay check with a Championship winner's medal in his pocket.

Edited 20 July 2023 by ClaphamFox

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It was only a few months ago that he outpaced the Leeds and Everton defences to score a couple of vintage Vardy goals. Maresca clearly prefers him to Iheancho and Daka. He will have a major role to play next season, even if we do get a new striker in.

 

My prediction is that Vardy starts the season and fires us to the top of the table by December when the workload of the schedule starts to become an issue and we see increasingly more of Daka. 

 

Hopefully PD starts to get a run of confidence and form and by the end of the season he's #1 with Vardy making enough appearances off the bench and on rotation to finish as just about our top scorer. 

 

19-22ish in about 25-ish lots of 90 each. 

 

Edited 20 July 2023 by Finnegan

[Lesta Legend]

16 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It was only a few months ago that he outpaced the Leeds and Everton defences to score a couple of vintage Vardy goals. Maresca clearly prefers him to Iheancho and Daka. He will have a major role to play next season, even if we do get a new striker in.

We once signed Tony Cottee at the time abroad at an obscure club a lot of fans branded an old has-been but had two very good years in the premier League. 

 

He may have lost that edge and pace from five years ago but he hasn't forgot how to score. He's mostly stood there watching our defence pass between themselves for the last 18 months. And he'll still have that yard of pace that most strikers don't have. 

 

He'll have a say our season for sure. 

Edited 20 July 2023 by Lesta Legend

[Lillehamring]

17 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I just can't get my head around this from people to be honest. 

 

I know I'm a stuck record and there's no way of proving this until the season starts but I believe quite strongly people will be pleasantly (I would hope?) surprised by Vardy or Daka's goal contributions come the start of the season. 

 

If we sort the supply out, these guys will score goals. No concerns. 

Hmm, i'm not sure vardy is consistent enough anymore, and daka just doesn't seem to get enough game time.  I suppose it really will come down to what sort of season we have - if it's likely to be the 'doom and gloom' scenario or the 'HMS piss the league scenario' - although i suppose we're starting to get into a chicken and egg situation there.

 

Don't get me wrong, i'd love any or all of our strikers to get a sack load of goals - but if i had to put a bet on one of the three, i'd go for Piroe (on the assumption that he played as our #9) - simply by virtue of age and familiarity with the league.

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, Lesta Legend said:

We once Tony Cottee at the time abroad at an obscure club a lot of fans branded an old has-been but had two very good years in the premier League. 

 

He may have lost that edge and pace from five years ago but he hasn't forgot how to score. He's mostly stood there watching our defence pace between themselves for the last 18 months. And he'll still have that yard of pace that most strikers don't have. 

 

He'll have a say our season for sure. 

 

Tony Cottee is exactly who I compare Vardy to whenever I hear people bang on about his pace. Vards greatest strength has always been his movement and his footballing intellect. If we get the ball in to the box he'll always score goals, he doesn't need miles to run in behind, he's excellent at just getting space in the area.

 

Complete myth that he wholly relies on speed. 

[Lillehamring]

15 minutes ago, copunk said:

Far too many writing Vards off for my liking 

Dismiss the GOAT at your peril 

I'm certainly not writing Vardy off, i just have my doubts over his consistency and his durability.  Having a a decent few games at the end of last season is a very different situation to playing 46 games.

[Lillehamring]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Tony Cottee is exactly who I compare Vardy to whenever I hear people bang on about his pace. Vards greatest strength has always been his movement and his footballing intellect. If we get the ball in to the box he'll always score goals, he doesn't need miles to run in behind, he's excellent at just getting space in the area.

 

Complete myth that he wholly relies on speed. 

The trouble vardy has now is that he needs a lot more chances to score than he used to (at least based on last season, and what little i've seen of him this season) - which is fine if we're dominating teams and creating masses of chances, but if it's one of those games where he only gets a couple of shots (or even touches), he's no longer the striker who you know will finish more often than not.

 

I think vardy's form this year will depend a lot more on how everyone else plays as opposed to the normal gauge of how well vardy plays.

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Lillehamring said:

The trouble vardy has now is that he needs a lot more chances to score than he used to (at least based on last season, and what little i've seen of him this season) - which is fine if we're dominating teams and creating masses of chances, but if it's one of those games where he only gets a couple of shots (or even touches), he's no longer the striker who you know will finish more often than not.

 

I think vardy's form this year will depend a lot more on how everyone else plays as opposed to the normal gauge of how well vardy plays.

 

What you're describing is bad form. It's not really surprising given he was constantly in and out of the team and the entire squad was lacking confidence and morale. It's why I think people writing Daka off are extremely premature. 

 

Both have a history of being extraordinarily consistent and prolific when confident and happy. Don't think it's got anything to do with Vardy's age to be honest.

[Stadt]

We stopped supplying Vardy with the sort of balls he scored so many goals from. Through balls and more crucially - low crosses/cutbacks across the 6 yard box like Atletico at home.

Edited 20 July 2023 by Stadt

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Stadt said:

We stopped supplying Vardy with the sort of balls he scored so many goals from. Through balls and more crucially - low crosses/cutbacks across the 6 yard box like Atletico at home.

 

This. See also Daka. 

 

The supply to both had been extremely poor for over a year. I'm not sure why people are struggling to see that so much. It's why I focus so much on actual accuracy vs xG because there's a finite amount a forward can do with poor supply. 

[Stadt]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

This. See also Daka. 

 

The supply to both had been extremely poor for over a year. I'm not sure why people are struggling to see that so much. It's why I focus so much on actual accuracy vs xG because there's a finite amount a forward can do with poor supply. 

When Daka arrived he started scoring goals at the backpost in a way Vardy hadn't really done for a while. Actually getting into the right position is more important than finishing ability, there really isn't that much between shit finishers and great ones - it's about the chance itself. Perez is possibly a better finisher than say Daka or Iheanacho but his football brain, athleticism and movement means he'll never get in the position to score as often (controlling for position).

[Lillehamring]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

What you're describing is bad form. It's not really surprising given he was constantly in and out of the team and the entire squad was lacking confidence and morale. It's why I think people writing Daka off are extremely premature. 

 

Both have a history of being extraordinarily consistent and prolific when confident and happy. Don't think it's got anything to do with Vardy's age to be honest.

Sure, to an extent, but equally it's crazy to think that his reactions and judgement are as sharp as they were previously - you simply can't put some of his recent finishing purely down to 'bad form'

I'm not writing him off, i'm just setting myself up for a reality where he's a 37 year old playing in a physical league with a lot of games and, maybe, he'll not win the golden boot  but hopefully he'll play a key role in a good successful season.

 

Besides, i'd still rather we brought in someone like Piroe as our main guy (with vardy as an impact sub), simply because it's a better long term plan than squeezing the last drops out of vardy and then having to start from scratch next year.

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Stadt said:

Perez is possibly a better finisher than say Daka or Iheanacho

 

He definitely isn't. 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Lillehamring said:

Sure, to an extent, but equally it's crazy to think that his reactions and judgement are as sharp as they were previously - you simply can't put some of his recent finishing purely down to 'bad form'

I'm not writing him off, i'm just setting myself up for a reality where he's a 37 year old playing in a physical league with a lot of games and, maybe, he'll not win the golden boot  but hopefully he'll play a key role in a good successful season.

 

Besides, i'd still rather we brought in someone like Piroe as our main guy (with vardy as an impact sub), simply because it's a better long term plan than squeezing the last drops out of vardy and then having to start from scratch next year.

 

I'm going to bow out and leave you to it. Not because I have a problem with you, you seem like a lovely guy. But we're just going to go round and round in circles on this. 

 

Simply, I just don't agree. For me, Daka and Vardy fit perfectly the way we want to play, they're both really adequate penalty box finishers and we'll be fine with them leading the line. Our biggest need by far is getting wingers and an upgrade on Praet being the third midfielder to mirror KDH. 

 

Even if there is cash left over, I'd rather we pocket it and wait and see what we might need in January than blow 20m on a luxury option with no track record at all of being an upgrade on our current 9s because he "gives us something else", a recruitment fallacy as old as time. 

[Iran]

Seems to be closer to Leeds 

[volpeazzurro]

56 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I just can't get my head around this from people to be honest. 

 

I know I'm a stuck record and there's no way of proving this until the season starts but I believe quite strongly people will be pleasantly (I would hope?) surprised by Vardy or Daka's goal contributions come the start of the season. 

 

If we sort the supply out, these guys will score goals. No concerns. 

Absolutely. We could have had Haaland last year and he wouldn't have been able to score without the ball either.

 

Last season, none of our forwards, in an attempt to service a flawed and inept managers philosophy, were played to their strengths and were largely fed on scraps in the wrong place at the wrong time. Confidence thus dissipated due to this too.

 

[st albans fox]

Have there been any decent links between us and him in the past fortnight?  Seems like a redundant thread to me ????

[LestaLad]

Quite a positive article really, says they’re set for talks to discuss his valuation etc, says as well that when he moves it won’t be about the money it will be more about the project and where he can further his career. (which I think puts us in a good position). 

Says us and Atalanta are the only clubs to have held initial discussions, and with Leeds he’s not a priority and Southampton they’ll have to sell a few of their players to fund the move.