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Smig123

Thoughts on Transfer business ?

By Smig123, in Leicester City Forum

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coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

If we cant afford to get the players for this type of manager we shouldnt have employed Enzo, so thats my answer to that question.  In a bit more detail we play for it via Top if its not already financed by sales.

 

Otherwise its a bit like asking Pep to be manager without buying him the players.

FFP for the Championship is -15m, if you break it, it's a points deduction.

 

So Top can't chuck money in.

 

Our income has dropped by 96m minimum.

 

Even with a reduction in our wage bill to 70% of the level in our last accounts, our wage bill is likely to be 20m more than our income.

 

Other than what we have already spent the rest of the Maddison and Barnes money will go to balancing the books.

 

Until we move more on, there will be little spending, which is why we are looking to loan a CM and RW.

 

 

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coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
Posted (edited)

To give some insight into why we may not splash the cash as much as some think we should.

 

If you take our last account published (21/22) and use it as a guide to give a rough, and I mean a very rough, idea of where we are financially, bearing in mind you are only allowed to lose 15m under championship FFP. 

 

The figure in bold have been updated with the new figures for this year, 23/24. The other left, as I can't predict them, so I've used 21/22 numbers.

 

But be mindful that both the Commercial and Gate money included a European campaign, so both will be less. I also expect we may have restructured our loans to reduce them, especially as King Power converted theirs to equality again but have left them as the 21/22 figures as I don't know what the new figures are.  

 

-Update Broadcasting from PL TV money for Championship money

-Wages/Expenses I've reduced to 60% of the 21/22 cost 

-Player Amortisation has been updated 

-Player Sales changed to money in for Maddison and Barnes. 

 

Income  21/22 Predicted 23/24 
Gate  21 21
Broadcasting  151.3 55
Commerical  42 42
Total  214.3 118
     
Player Sales  9.2 80
     
Outgoing     
Wages/Expense 216 129.6
Player Amortisation  72 42
Other  9.9 9.9
Total 81.9 51.9
     
Profit before Interest and  Tax  -74.4 16.5
Interest on Loans -18.9 -18.9
     
Profit/loss after Tax -93.3 -2.4

 

 

   

A large chuck of the money from Maddison and Barnes is needed to balance the books. 

Edited by coolhandfox
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Guest Kopfkino

Guest Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

To give some insight into why we may not splash the cash as much as some think we should.

 

If you take our last account published (21/22) and use it as a guide to give a rough, and I mean a very rough, idea of where we are financially, bearing in mind you are only allowed to lose 15m under championship FFP. 

 

The figure in bold have been updated with the new figures for this year, 23/24. The other left, as I can't predict them, so I've used 21/22 numbers.

 

But be mindful that both the Commercial and Gate money included a European campaign, so both will be less. I also expect we may have restructured our loans to reduce them, especially as King Power converted theirs to equality again but have left them as the 21/22 figures as I don't know what the new figures are.  

 

-Update Broadcasting from PL TV money for Championship money

-Wages/Expenses I've reduced to 60% of the 21/22 cost 

-Player Amortisation has been updated 

-Player Sales changed to money in for Maddison and Barnes. 

 

Income  21/22 Predicted 23/24 
Gate  21 21
Broadcasting  151.3 55
Commerical  42 42
Total  214.3 118
     
Player Sales  9.2 80
     
Outgoing     
Wages/Expense 216 129.6
Player Amortisation  72 42
Other  9.9 9.9
Total 81.9 51.9
     
Profit before Interest and  Tax  -74.4 16.5
Interest on Loans -18.9 -18.9
     
Profit/loss after Tax -93.3 -2.4

 

 

   

A large chuck of the money from Maddison and Barnes is needed to balance the books. 


Great start to demonstrate what needs to be considered - few things I’d add

 

- as you say interest on loans will be down thanks to the debt to equity conversion. Last accounts Macquarie was something like 6.6% on the 80m loan thus the KP interest was quite significant

- you’ve noted commercial and gate incomes will be down

- player sales will be lower cos you have net it off + because the accounting period change, pretty sure Maddison ends up in last year’s accounts

- whilst the upper loss limit is 15m for the championship, it’s still assessed over a rolling 3 seasons. Which means our FFP for this year includes 21/22, 22/23 and 23/24. You’re still assessed against Premier League limits for the first two seasons you it’s 83m we’re allowed to lose over 3 seasons

- In which case you worry about the 21/22 figure alone but Thankfully headline figures need significant adjustment due to allowables e.g youth development. Villa reported their youth development costs as like 14m last time. Add in community work and women’s stuff, maybe 20m of allowables?

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Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

FFP for the Championship is -15m, if you break it, it's a points deduction.

 

So Top can't chuck money in.

 

Our income has dropped by 96m minimum.

 

Even with a reduction in our wage bill to 70% of the level in our last accounts, our wage bill is likely to be 20m more than our income.

 

Other than what we have already spent the rest of the Maddison and Barnes money will go to balancing the books.

 

Until we move more on, there will be little spending, which is why we are looking to loan a CM and RW.

 

 

Well we dont know what the current state of finances are.

 

You making an assumption we have ran out of leg room on the permitted losses.  It might just be a simple too big squad size issue, or even something else.

 

But my original point remains, they decided to go down a certain path by employing Enzo, they then need to go fully in on that and give him the tools he needs.

 

Also even letting players go for free gives savings on the accounts due to the wages going away.  Even if you loan a player out whilst paying half their wage, you still have removed 50% of their wage. 

Edited by Chrysalis
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Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

To give some insight into why we may not splash the cash as much as some think we should.

 

If you take our last account published (21/22) and use it as a guide to give a rough, and I mean a very rough, idea of where we are financially, bearing in mind you are only allowed to lose 15m under championship FFP. 

 

The figure in bold have been updated with the new figures for this year, 23/24. The other left, as I can't predict them, so I've used 21/22 numbers.

 

But be mindful that both the Commercial and Gate money included a European campaign, so both will be less. I also expect we may have restructured our loans to reduce them, especially as King Power converted theirs to equality again but have left them as the 21/22 figures as I don't know what the new figures are.  

 

-Update Broadcasting from PL TV money for Championship money

-Wages/Expenses I've reduced to 60% of the 21/22 cost 

-Player Amortisation has been updated 

-Player Sales changed to money in for Maddison and Barnes. 

 

Income  21/22 Predicted 23/24 
Gate  21 21
Broadcasting  151.3 55
Commerical  42 42
Total  214.3 118
     
Player Sales  9.2 80
     
Outgoing     
Wages/Expense 216 129.6
Player Amortisation  72 42
Other  9.9 9.9
Total 81.9 51.9
     
Profit before Interest and  Tax  -74.4 16.5
Interest on Loans -18.9 -18.9
     
Profit/loss after Tax -93.3 -2.4

 

 

   

A large chuck of the money from Maddison and Barnes is needed to balance the books. 

Is good you bothered to do some calculations, I will say you probably have over estimated commercial, that almost certainly is going to get hit, we have already lost FBS shirt sponsorship, will be further losses as well on that.

Wages is probably over estimated as it did get revealed we had relegation clauses and multiple EPL earners have left the club.

No comment on the rest other than you have predicted a 2.4m loss which is below 15 million.

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coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:


Great start to demonstrate what needs to be considered - few things I’d add

 

- as you say interest on loans will be down thanks to the debt to equity conversion. Last accounts Macquarie was something like 6.6% on the 80m loan thus the KP interest was quite significant

- you’ve noted commercial and gate incomes will be down

- player sales will be lower cos you have net it off + because the accounting period change, pretty sure Maddison ends up in last year’s accounts

- whilst the upper loss limit is 15m for the championship, it’s still assessed over a rolling 3 seasons. Which means our FFP for this year includes 21/22, 22/23 and 23/24. You’re still assessed against Premier League limits for the first two seasons you it’s 83m we’re allowed to lose over 3 seasons

- In which case you worry about the 21/22 figure alone but Thankfully headline figures need significant adjustment due to allowables e.g youth development. Villa reported their youth development costs as like 14m last time. Add in community work and women’s stuff, maybe 20m of allowables?

All good points, thank you. 

 

I was just interested in getting a rough idea of where we are, but lots of variables.  

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coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Is good you bothered to do some calculations, I will say you probably have over estimated commercial, that almost certainly is going to get hit, we have already lost FBS shirt sponsorship, will be further losses as well on that.

Wages is probably over estimated as it did get revealed we had relegation clauses and multiple EPL earners have left the club.

No comment on the rest other than you have predicted a 2.4m loss which is below 15 million.

I left the commercials as the 21/22 figure as I have no idea what that will be. 

 

Wages is a tough one, but I'd be surprised if we reduce by more the 40% 

 

6 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Well we dont know what the current state of finances are.

 

You making an assumption we have ran out of leg room on the permitted losses.  It might just be a simple too big squad size issue, or even something else.

 

But my original point remains, they decided to go down a certain path by employing Enzo, they then need to go fully in on that and give him the tools he needs.

 

Also even letting players go for free gives savings on the accounts due to the wages going away.  Even if you loan a player out whilst paying half their wage, you still have removed 50% of their wage. 

I think the intention is to give him the tools, but we need some out first. For that we need the player to want to leave and for some to want to buy them. 

 

I think its going to be a busy few weeks, in and out. 

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Has Oscar Bobb gone anywhere this window or featured at all for Man City in pre-season? I felt that he and Doyle were a no-brainer. Maybe MCFC didn't want Bobb to go, but I can't see that just playing for their academy is his best bet?

I'm staggered if he goes anywhere but us in this division. I don't see him going to a PL club, nor do I think he gets a game at Man City yet. Really hope we end up with him.

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Dames

Dames

Posted
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

After last season, I think we all have PTSD.

 

But I think we have done solid business so far!

Incomings have been good but we still have the same issue with outgoings.

 

It doesn't help that we are a Championship club demanding Premier League fees for players we don't deem good enough for the Championship. As with last summer something has got to give eventually and we are going to have to grit our teeth accept some cut price deals. That however would require our esteemed DOF to stop dining out on the Maguire transfer, drop his ego and actually do some pragmatic business without thinking he can fleece anyone and everyone. 

Edited by Dames
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Guest Kopfkino

Guest Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

I left the commercials as the 21/22 figure as I have no idea what that will be. 

 

Wages is a tough one, but I'd be surprised if we reduce by more the 40% 

If you look at Newcastle when they went down last, albeit it’s now 6 or 7 years ago - commercial income halved. And ours is again from a European season so probs a natural reduction last season anyway.

 

With the allowables, really think the max we can lose this year is 25m - desperate for outgoings but loans aren’t hugely helpful and accepting low fees thus making book losses could end up prohibitive. It’s all not quite so easy when you have an actual P&L in front of you.

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StriderHiryu

StriderHiryu

Posted
Posted

Where are the wingers!? The one we've signed so far has been one of our more impressive players thus far. That's not even taking into account squad depth in case that one winger gets injured!

 

I'm sure they will come in, but we might play another 2/3 games without them, plus any new player will need time to get up to speed.

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FoxesWalk

FoxesWalk

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

Where are the wingers!? The one we've signed so far has been one of our more impressive players thus far. That's not even taking into account squad depth in case that one winger gets injured!

 

I'm sure they will come in, but we might play another 2/3 games without them, plus any new player will need time to get up to speed.

We need 2 or 3 more. I’d imagine we use McAteer/Wanya/Marc as rotation options, so probably 2 more realistically. Would be ideal if one of them is capable of covering in central areas. 

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Simmo86

Simmo86

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Where are the wingers!? The one we've signed so far has been one of our more impressive players thus far. That's not even taking into account squad depth in case that one winger gets injured!

 

I'm sure they will come in, but we might play another 2/3 games without them, plus any new player will need time to get up to speed.

Fortunately we'll probably get away with it as the games before deadline day are on the easier side, then hopefully they'll get the international break to get up to speed before a tougher September. 

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Dan LCFC

Dan LCFC

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Simmo86 said:

Fortunately we'll probably get away with it as the games before deadline day are on the easier side, then hopefully they'll get the international break to get up to speed before a tougher September. 

Probably but I don't think it's implausible we drop points against some because we can't break them down.

 

We're so slow all the time.

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